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I'm not sure what quality service you are referencing. If you mean having someone available to answer your questions as a hobby shop may have, then that is a tangible reason to buy some items from them. However, there are many resources to get the same answers. One very simple way is to ask an individual in the hobby or on a forum or even contact a manufacturer. Need some "know-how", join a club or go to trains shows for demos, buy books.
Does personal service justify the already inflated prices of MSRP that most all LHS use? Perhaps with some price is not a concern, but many of us try to stretch our hobby allowance to maximize our purchasing power. If alternative sources of information are available, why pay more just for this.
The problems we read about with online purchases are no greater than those with various LHS's or with other types of retailers. We read a few dozen or so complaints and then make the assumption that there is a real problem out there. What we fail to take into consideration is there are thousands of orders being processed without any complaints. The only one I have had, with thousands of dollars in orders, is time of shipment. But, like any other shopping, "Buyer Beware!" and check on the company's reputation before using them.
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GWT&P
Member
www.modeltrainstuff.com/
www.toytrainheaven.com/
I've bought from both of these places and haven't had any problems with either. Both have good prices. I think Model Train Stuff has shipped a little faster than Toy Train Heaven, like a couple of days maybe. I'll order from both again.
www.toytrainheaven.com/
I've bought from both of these places and haven't had any problems with either. Both have good prices. I think Model Train Stuff has shipped a little faster than Toy Train Heaven, like a couple of days maybe. I'll order from both again.
Check out Hobbylinc at http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/u.htm. Their prices are very competitive, especially their sale items, and their service has been great for me.
Larry
Long Winded Old Fart
Almost everyone has the same price for Atlas track by the box. The cheapest is Standard Hobby Supply or Toy Train Heaven. Usually they are just a few pennies difference. I bought the last box(100 pcs of 3ft flex) from Standard.
After that I bought Model Power flex & I like it a little better except it's not as flexible as Atlas, but I figured out how to use it after a few mistakes. LOL
Larry
After that I bought Model Power flex & I like it a little better except it's not as flexible as Atlas, but I figured out how to use it after a few mistakes. LOL
Larry
mike8693
Member
By the time I buy track and ship it it is ussually like 4 dollars a section for code 83. I went to my local train shop and asked If he could do any better. He said he has a "club" discount so I get 20% off everything and track at 3.00 a section. My point is it is woth a shot to ask around local. For on my online purchases I use hobbylinc.
Well Robert, I buy most everything online for my layout. (The nearest hobby shop with model railroading is 55 miles away.) Most all online stores give 15 to 25% discount, which is generally a lot more than an LHS will give. Yes, there is shipping
! However, if your local tax is 9% and you order $100 online with no tax, you save $9.00 covering the shipping. Net: 15-25% discount. If you can get an LHS to give this price, then by all means buy from him...but you still have to pay the sales tax. Some small items in small quantities, like paints, couplers, joiners, etc., the savings is not that much and you should buy locally.
Hands on buying is a lot more fun and even exciting, but when you are trying to stretch your hobby funds, every dollar saved means more on the layout. You do want to be careful with which online store to use, but following others with their experience is usually a safe way to go.
Planning ahead will compensate for the one to two week shipping, allowing you to have the parts ready when you are ready. I always buy one project ahead of my work.
There are many ways to see the item before buying online. Visit club layouts or other private layouts. They may have the item and you will be able to see it upfront. Visit the LHS...look at it there. If the owner won't come across with the right price, buy online.
Just my opinions!
! However, if your local tax is 9% and you order $100 online with no tax, you save $9.00 covering the shipping. Net: 15-25% discount. If you can get an LHS to give this price, then by all means buy from him...but you still have to pay the sales tax. Some small items in small quantities, like paints, couplers, joiners, etc., the savings is not that much and you should buy locally.Hands on buying is a lot more fun and even exciting, but when you are trying to stretch your hobby funds, every dollar saved means more on the layout. You do want to be careful with which online store to use, but following others with their experience is usually a safe way to go.
Planning ahead will compensate for the one to two week shipping, allowing you to have the parts ready when you are ready. I always buy one project ahead of my work.
There are many ways to see the item before buying online. Visit club layouts or other private layouts. They may have the item and you will be able to see it upfront. Visit the LHS...look at it there. If the owner won't come across with the right price, buy online.
Just my opinions!
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Larry
Long Winded Old Fart
My local Hobby shop is 65 miles away. By the time I make the trip at the price of gas, spending an hour on the road one way, then I have to buy lunch & do some more shopping to make the trip worthwhile. My hobby shop never gives a discount on anything, even used stuff.
I buy my track by the case cause I get a much better price mail order. 100 pieces is about half of my LHS price. That's code 100 or code 83. I use both Atlas & Model Power flex. I'm a penny pincher & I always check the best price. Today I bought a bunch of stuff from Toy Train Heaven after I checked my LHS last week. I saved about 60% on line. Didn't have to make the trip, ate lunch at home & saved about 3 hrs. for working on the layout.
Some people will buy at a hobby shop because that's what they have done all their life. I use to own a speed shop & I gave good discounts to my customers & they always came back for more. Personal service makes a big difference to some people that are just getting started & don't know exactly what to get. A hobby shop will give that service & that's why people buy from them. Am I right?
Larry
I buy my track by the case cause I get a much better price mail order. 100 pieces is about half of my LHS price. That's code 100 or code 83. I use both Atlas & Model Power flex. I'm a penny pincher & I always check the best price. Today I bought a bunch of stuff from Toy Train Heaven after I checked my LHS last week. I saved about 60% on line. Didn't have to make the trip, ate lunch at home & saved about 3 hrs. for working on the layout.
Some people will buy at a hobby shop because that's what they have done all their life. I use to own a speed shop & I gave good discounts to my customers & they always came back for more. Personal service makes a big difference to some people that are just getting started & don't know exactly what to get. A hobby shop will give that service & that's why people buy from them. Am I right?
Larry
Larry: Glad to have your input on this subject. Obviously you have a situation that requires forethought with your purchases. I would do all the things you do if I were in that position. It just seems to me that I have seen folks with issues on mail/on line purchases that perhaps COULD have been avioded or lessened by using the LHS. Do we as buyers think that quality service is too expensive? Just curious.
Larry
Long Winded Old Fart
I've been in the model railroad hobby pretty steady for about 47 years. I guess over these years I've learned the best places to buy my stuff. The best place to get the best prices, bar none, is MRR shows & flea markets, but in my neck of the woods(small town) there's only about 4 shows w/in 100 miles of me in the winter season. I pretty much know my prices on everything before I go to a show & what I'm looking for. That's where I get up to 50 to 75% off the retail.
But, between the shows & I need something I always buy mail order. Very very seldom I make a mistake on a purchase & sometimes I have to wait for back orders to clear before my whole order is shipped.
There's a few places that have screwed me over for service & I don't deal w/them anymore. You can screw me once & that's all I take. No second chances.
Service is the name of the game. I was in that business of service working for Zee Medical for quite a few years. Those customers that I had wouldn't buy mail order because I gave them the best 1 on 1 service. If you get a good Hobby shop that has that kind of service that is the place to buy. A good shop that gives you a break on most of your purchases.
In the mid to late 90's I was building a custom layout for a friend that took me a year to finish. A hobby shop in Bradenton, Fl. bent over backward to give me the best discounts on supplies, engines & running stock, buildings, etc. They gave me the best service on repairs & got special orders in asap.
I bought a ton of stuff from them over a 5 year period. Wish they were still in business.
Larry
But, between the shows & I need something I always buy mail order. Very very seldom I make a mistake on a purchase & sometimes I have to wait for back orders to clear before my whole order is shipped.
There's a few places that have screwed me over for service & I don't deal w/them anymore. You can screw me once & that's all I take. No second chances.
Service is the name of the game. I was in that business of service working for Zee Medical for quite a few years. Those customers that I had wouldn't buy mail order because I gave them the best 1 on 1 service. If you get a good Hobby shop that has that kind of service that is the place to buy. A good shop that gives you a break on most of your purchases.
In the mid to late 90's I was building a custom layout for a friend that took me a year to finish. A hobby shop in Bradenton, Fl. bent over backward to give me the best discounts on supplies, engines & running stock, buildings, etc. They gave me the best service on repairs & got special orders in asap.
I bought a ton of stuff from them over a 5 year period. Wish they were still in business.
Larry
I'm not sure what quality service you are referencing. If you mean having someone available to answer your questions as a hobby shop may have, then that is a tangible reason to buy some items from them. However, there are many resources to get the same answers. One very simple way is to ask an individual in the hobby or on a forum or even contact a manufacturer. Need some "know-how", join a club or go to trains shows for demos, buy books.
Does personal service justify the already inflated prices of MSRP that most all LHS use? Perhaps with some price is not a concern, but many of us try to stretch our hobby allowance to maximize our purchasing power. If alternative sources of information are available, why pay more just for this.
The problems we read about with online purchases are no greater than those with various LHS's or with other types of retailers. We read a few dozen or so complaints and then make the assumption that there is a real problem out there. What we fail to take into consideration is there are thousands of orders being processed without any complaints. The only one I have had, with thousands of dollars in orders, is time of shipment. But, like any other shopping, "Buyer Beware!" and check on the company's reputation before using them.
hamltnblue
Active Member
I luckily have 3 decent hobby shops in a 20 mile arc from me. I frequent them all. I may pay a little higher price to get my supplies but in return I get to have them around to check out for ideas, look for new stuff, and just a place to take the kids from time to time. Without them where will our kids get the idea to start out when they hit middle age? Nothing like the ole hobby shop in town. I'd suggest trying to use them as much as possible. Pay the extra buck for the flex track and have it available in a pinch.
I'm in much the same position as Rex and Larry. My closest train shop is about 70 miles from me. They are actually quite a good shop and give decent discounts. I like to go up there a few times a year, sometimes with a major purchase in mind and other times just to see and touch some of the new items. With the price of gas, I can't just run up there for some flex tack of a couple of ground throws. If they were closer, say within 20 miles, they would get the majority of my business.
Flex track is a good example of what I do buy mail order. Let's face it, if you've seen one piece of Atlas flex, you've seen them all These are what I call commodity parts, things that are so standard that price is really the ruling factor. Kadee couplers, ground throws, common building kits, and most scenery material also falls into this category.
I go to the train shop for purchases where seeing and holding the item really makes a difference. For example, I bought a set of BLI Southern E-7's with sound. I paid about $25 more than the cheapest price I could get online but I wanted to look at them in person and see and hear them run before I dropped almost 4 bills on them. Same with high end freight car kits. I like to build detailed freight cars but I don't like paying $30 for a box of sticks. I like to see the kit and understand if it's really "easy to build", as they always say. In addition, there's always something neat at the train shop I overlooked in the Walthers catalog and then there's always the bargain bin.
Bottom line is, if I had a train shop closer that had decent (not always the cheapest, just not full retail) prices, a good selection, and people who had some idea what they were talking about, I'd be there every week. Much to my wifes relief, that's not the case.
So, mail order is about the only viable alternative for me, and I get really good prices and service form the online stores I order from.
Flex track is a good example of what I do buy mail order. Let's face it, if you've seen one piece of Atlas flex, you've seen them all
These are what I call commodity parts, things that are so standard that price is really the ruling factor. Kadee couplers, ground throws, common building kits, and most scenery material also falls into this category. I go to the train shop for purchases where seeing and holding the item really makes a difference. For example, I bought a set of BLI Southern E-7's with sound. I paid about $25 more than the cheapest price I could get online but I wanted to look at them in person and see and hear them run before I dropped almost 4 bills on them. Same with high end freight car kits. I like to build detailed freight cars but I don't like paying $30 for a box of sticks. I like to see the kit and understand if it's really "easy to build", as they always say. In addition, there's always something neat at the train shop I overlooked in the Walthers catalog and then there's always the bargain bin.
Bottom line is, if I had a train shop closer that had decent (not always the cheapest, just not full retail) prices, a good selection, and people who had some idea what they were talking about, I'd be there every week. Much to my wifes relief, that's not the case.
So, mail order is about the only viable alternative for me, and I get really good prices and service form the online stores I order from.Hey Fellas: You all have made excellent points in your posts. This is obviously not a one size fits all endeavor. I have three shops in relative closeness to me and I must admit that one of them gives far better customer service (defined as good price points, repair/maintenance assistance, advice and attitude) than the other two. Agreed a piece of track is a piece of track is a piece of track, but are we witnessing the death of the LHS?
I certainly hope not as the LHS does serve many and is an asset to the hobby. Even though I seldom buy from one, it doesn't mean I don't want them around. I wish we had one here that focused on MR instead of R/C.
Even though their longevity is directly dependant to our purchases, our purchases are directly dependant on how the LHS and the industry handles the rising costs. This is now even more significant with the lower value on the dollar and rising oil prices. There are limits to what many will or can pay for a hobby when there are higher priorities. IMHO
Even though their longevity is directly dependant to our purchases, our purchases are directly dependant on how the LHS and the industry handles the rising costs. This is now even more significant with the lower value on the dollar and rising oil prices. There are limits to what many will or can pay for a hobby when there are higher priorities. IMHO
I could not agree with you more! Obviously, we all have to respond to economic situations as best we can. It would be a shame to see the passing of the LHS due to world economies. It would be a greater shame to see the passing because they failed to distinguish themselves from the online/mail house competition simply because of dervice issues that are in their control.
This issue has been discussed endlessly and, without a crystal ball, I'm no more able than the next guy to predict the future. All we know for sure is that hobby shops that specialize mainly in trains have been in a precipitous decline since about 1970. At the same time, the on-line presence of hobby shops has increased by a rate that I think has exceeded the decline of brick and mortar shops. It would be really interesting to know how much of Walthers sales in now direct retail compared to wholesale for hobby shops. I would bet somewhere near 50/50. The good thing is that model train sales in constant dollars have never been higher than they are today and I expect that trend to continue as more baby boomers retire and get back into trains. I suspect that this will still not bode well for the LHS. The baby boomers have become so used to ordering on line that it's where they first head, even if there is a hobby shop not far away. We'll see how it all shakes out but it's certainly better than the slot car era of the 60's and 70's, when everyone was predicting the demise of model trains altogether.
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