Athearn BB no more?

[Cjcrescent]

The comment Ryan made, "if you lament the passing of the BB kits", is a moot point for me as the last BB kits I have bought are just BW cabooses, for kitbashing into SRR cabs. And the last one of those was over two years ago. Otherwise my kit buying is just as active as ever. There are many other kit manufacturers that are still out there.

There is, as has been mentioned, Intermountain, and Branchline, but there is also the resin kit makers, Sunshine, F&C, Westerfield, Wright Trak, as well as even some of the older lines, (under new owners), like Ye Old Huff & Puff, makers of the old Red Ball, and Silver Streak Lines and Labelle is still in business. I know that there are several others that I have failed to mention.

The point is, kits are not dead, nor will they ever be IMHO. There will always be modelers that will get more satisfaction out of being able to say, "look what I built", as opposed to saying, "look what I bought!"

 

[railBuilderDhd]

I really hope we don't see the end of the kits as I really like building the kits most of all.
Dave

 

[stang_crazy]

well the only thing to do now is to purchace the BB kits else where, (shows, ebay, ect) I dont seem em drying up any time soon, since the have been produced for the last 40+ years.

Althought im sad to see them go, i do like the newer RTR stuff and what not, but the cost just makes it so i cant get the stuff. Out of the 50+ engines I have sitting on the shelf next to me, i purchased (1) new RTR engines. A few other completes were BB kits, otherwise all the rest have been put together with scrounged up parts and restored.

I buy all my stuff used, its about the only way i can afford the stuff. I will continue to buy large quanitys of engine parts and keep on building them, may have to start doing the same with rolling stock.

 

[stationmaster]

One of the things that I have been mulling over and over in my mind(that's easy to do since my mind is so small, just a series of short laps), this move by Athearn is strictly financial. It has nothing to do with the hobby. They see an opportunity to increase the bottom line. I doubt that to be so. I believe that their advisers are not hobbyists, but businessmen.

Some complain that BB models have "rough" lettering. That's a moot point with so many now weathering their models. The lettering is hardly noticed on a weathered car or engine. The only improvement that I can suggest is the option of knuckle couplers and better, possibly insulated metal, wheel sets.

I model roads that are sometimes quite hard to find. C&O being one. There is plenty of Chessie stuff out there, but very little C&O. Wabash is another, Monon, and NKP are becoming more scarce.

I also model an era that is probably the largest era modeled, the transition of steam to diesel. These cars are probably the most abundant. It's the many fallen flags that are hard to find. The 40-foot boxcars, the 34-foot coal cars, cabooses are abundant at train shows and on the internet selling sites. The problem is that RTR will surely raise in price. Athearn and the other manufacturers have a captive market.

The afore mentioned difficulties are what have led me to buy many undecorated cars and engines. I can add the decals I want to get the roads I need. I even went to the extent of getting a program that allows me to print my own decals. I now use a standard graphics program that does an even better job. It's simply a matter of importing a graphic onto the sheet and scaling it down.

Athearn claims the high price of manufacturing. I say, that is a standard answer to appease the masses. All false ans shallow rhetoric. Advances in technology, outsourcing to foreign countries, all were reasons that were given for companies to move outside our borders to manufacture products. They pulled the wool over our eyes thinking we are not smart enough to eventually figure things out. But, that's another story.

The hobby will forever be changed, and not for the better I believe. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can be proud of an RTR car. How can you be proud of something you had no part in creating? Baffles me.

I have somewhere between 2000-2500 cars. Most of which are Athearn Blue Box. There are many, many others, too. Varney, Silver Streak, Globe, AccuRail... If there was a manufacturer out there, I probably have an example of their ware. Out of the sum total of my inventory, I probably have 25 RTR cars, that does not include some of the passenger cars I have purchased in the past 4-5 years. The kit car is the backbone of my roster. And many were "custom" decaled and painted to suit my needs. I detest duplicate numbers. And I have very few. And those I have were my Dad's so I doubt that they will ever be changed as they are, for the most part, kept as static displays and not riding the rails of my layout.

So what does our future hold? I see it going south. Prices will increase for the RTR's. Kits will go away for good. And the craftsman will follow. I admit that it isn't rocket science to assemble a BB model. Some patience is required. Patience that is gained from working at the bench. All structures will become "canned", pre-assembled, in the near future. Which will lead to "canned" layouts. Without the ability to "kitbash" our layouts will become singular, though the hills and valleys we add may show a bit of difference, the sights will all be the same. Once you've seen an industrial layout you will have seen them all. The only difference between layouts will the routing of the rails and the placement of the structures apart from the layout of the land.

We will lose our format of gaining the needed lessons that enable us to give the individuality to our layouts. We will not learn the patience, the skills, nor will we be able to get teh respite of sitting at the bench and wondering "what if I did this like this, I wonder if it would work if I....?" We would lose our place of letting our imaginations flourish and run wild. I read a survey many years ago that asked the question, "Where do you go to let your mind open up to new creations?" or something to that effect. The answer was the work bench. It wasn't "railfanning, it wasn't train shows with their displays, it wasn't magazines, it was the work bench. We will spend less time there now and will more than likely have our imaginations stagnate.

I'm an old timer, 50 years in the hobby. And I may be considered by some as a relic, a throwback on earlier times. I don't consider myself to be that at all. I run DCC, probably the single biggest leap forward in teh hobby in my experience, and I appreciate all that is available today. I sure can remember times that were far leaner when it came to choice, quality, and realism. I run engines made by Rivarossi, BLI, Genesis, Spectrum, Proto 1000 and 2000. That doesn't include the few brass models like OMI, Brass Key, and such. These engines run right alongside the old Athearn Hi-Fi's, the old Varneys, Red Balls, and Mantuas. I think having all of these units running on the same rails, has helped me to form a deeper admiration and respect for not only the hobby, but those that came before me, and the things that got us all here and has made the hobby what it is today.

I hope and pray that my vision is incorrect, but the hobby has lost one of the true supports that has made all of our passion, and our glorious quest, called model railroading what it is today. From the casual modeler, to the craftsman, to those that are seen admiring what we do at display in our local malls and at shows. The demise of the Athearn BB model is not to better the hobby, which is what the whole picture, the manufacturers, the distributors, the hobby shops, and the hobbyist, it's about greed and wanting to make more money. I cannot grasp how adding additional steps to manufacture a product like the RTR cars is cheaper than producing a BB model. Amazing that you can add more payroll, more people on the production line, more steps in the procedure, and produce something cheaper.

It is my deepest hope that someone will pick up the torch cast off by Athearn and continue to produce these models. Then, and only then can the hobby, and those of who love it so, develop the needed talents to continue to build those dynamic and exciting layouts that we all hope to own.

Bob

 

[BNSFrailfan]

I just got this in from http://www.Athearn.com by e-mail 10/16/2009

Greetings,

Effective immediately, we here at Athearn have made the difficult decision to discontinue the production of our Blue Box line of kits. There were several factors that contributed to this extremely challenging decision however, the primary issue revolved around affordability and ensuring that our Blue Box kit pricing remain aligned with what the market can bear. Unfortunately, due to increased manufacturing and labor costs it has been determined that we are no longer able to continue offering kits at competitive price points as compared to our already assembled products.

For over 50 years the Athearn Blue Box kits have been sold worldwide, bringing happiness, joy and excitement to thousands of model railroad enthusiasts. Your passion for these products has allowed us to thrive and grow into the industry leader you still support today, and for that we are eternally grateful. Moving forward this will allow us to dedicate more resources to new and exciting projects in our Ready To Roll, Genesis and Roundhouse lines for another 50 years, or more.

We will continue to support all service and warranty needs on Blue Box kits from our headquarters in Long Beach, California. You can find our contact information here.

The Folks at Athearn.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

Much as I hate to see the BB era end, the comparison between BB models and the RTR line is unfair. The RTR line has mostly new or revised tooling, the details are much finer, the paint jobs are better, the lettering is very crisp, there are the proper car end reporting marks and numbers, and they have metal wheels and knuckle coupler. Most of the ones I have bought have been correctly weighted and there's even some decent underbody detail. Even the brakewheel is the correct color. The BB kits are using tooling that's anywhere from 10 to 40 years old so that cost was paid off a long time ago. The amazing thing is not how much RTR cars cost but how much they still want for the BB kits. The relatively high price is because Athearn tried to keep some production going in America.

Athearn is really the tail end of the demise of easy to build plastic car kits. Roundhouse has been absorbed by Horizon and is all RTR. Accurail is still hanging on by the skin of their teeth and are switching more and more RTR. Tichy Train Group still makes plastic kits but they hardly fall in the same category as the Athearn BB kits and cost as much RTR kit with no couplers and no paint. Don't even get me started on some of the kits issued by Walthers, like the miserable "easy to build" Mather double deck stock cars. The only company that is still successful with kits is Branchline and their kits, while well detailed, are not shake the box kits, and cost as much as most of the Athearn RTR line. The Yardmaster series is about as close as you can come to an Athearn BB but they are about $4 more to pay for the metal wheels and knuckle couplers. Even at that, the Yardmaster series has a fatal flaw that wil eventually kill them off. You want a transition era boxcar - no problem. You want anything else, too bad, we only make boxcars. Even Branchline is starting to make more and more RTR cars, at a pretty steep price, I might add.

If we really want to support kits, we should all be buying Intermountain and Branchline kits like crazy to let them know we still want plastic car kits. How many of us are doing so? I suspect not a lot. If you're a modern era modeler, you don't even have much of a choice, since all the container cars and other intermodal cars only come RTR. Just ask a guy like Josh Mader how many orders he gets for Branchline or Intermountain car kits compared to Athearn, Arlas, and other RTR models.

We can blame accountants, and big corporations all we want but, as Pogo said. "We have met the enemy and he is us". We are the ones who have been giving BB kits a pass while buying up gobs of beautiful RTR models in all sorts of types, roadnames, and car variations. Most of them are even pretty faithful to the prototype, a concept unknown to Uncle Irv, who cranked our engines and cars in whatever roadnames would sell and changed nothing on the kit to match the real thing. I even have an Athearn BB NKP F-7. Bob, you know how far away from any protoype that was. Model companies are simply responding to the market. We created that market, not them.

A final observation before I get off my soapbox. The one thing I've noticed in the past 10 years is the rise of really well detailed layouts. I mean city scenes that look real, roads that look real, rural scenes that look real, and mountains and sky that looks real. When I first got in the hobby, most layouts were either plywood praries or had some lichen, sawdust grass, and few terrible looking trees. Mountains looked like what they were, giant hunks of plaster with some rock molds stuck in. I was floored the first time I saw a photgraphic backdrop. My point is that, back in the days, we were so busy building kits for everything from rolling stock to structures, that we never had time to really detail a layout. I'm sure I'm different than a lot of you but what gives me real pleasure is detailing my layout and not bogged down on the workbench assembling one freight car kit or a month building a fiendishly difficult wood structure. I still like building structure kits and the occasional freight car kits. However, I bought my first ever RTR structure, the WS Municipal Building, and it is a way better looking structure than the vast majority of us, including me, could build and paint. Yes, we are entering a new era but I can't label it good or bad. It simply is what it is. Some people who really like building complex rolling stock will be left behind (although there will still be these kits available for a long time) but many others, who never had the skill to do this, will be drawn into the hobby. As long as the hobby is growing, which it is, for the first time in decades, I think we are on the right track.

All just my opimiom, take as being worth what you paid for it.

In my opinion, I think you nailed it. In the late 90s to early 2000s, thats about when I started persueing other hobbys that soaked up a nice chunk of my hobby money. Combine that with the fact that I didnt and still dont have room for a layout at this time. It was only a matter of time before I started fading intrest at the time, you can only build so many kits then put them back in the box. I never really left the hobby but scaled back persay. Kept my beloved Model Railroader subscription up to date the entire time. This year I got back into the hobby full swing.

Anyways, I was supprised to see how much had changed since I left. At least what changed in the real world as I kept my MRR mag up to date and could only go off what I saw in the mags as far as the advertisers and what new models were coming out. The techniques and modeling stuff hadnt changed much in those years, but the hobby market in the shops changed big time.

I am one of those modelers that doesnt necessarily have to have every single freight car look super realistic. Blue box type of kits do just fine with me. It was nice back then when Roundhouse, Athearn BB, and other shake the box kits were the norm, you could populate a layout with very little money. I sometimes wonder if the fact that they arent as cheap to come by anymore will keep newcomers away.

In the end, its us, the consumers that ended the status of these kits, as the demand for high quality kits went way up.

 

[Trucklover]

If we really want to support kits, we should all be buying Intermountain and Branchline kits like crazy to let them know we still want plastic car kits. How many of us are doing so? I suspect not a lot. If you're a modern era modeler, you don't even have much of a choice, since all the container cars and other intermodal cars only come RTR. Just ask a guy like Josh Mader how many orders he gets for Branchline or Intermountain car kits compared to Athearn, Arlas, and other RTR models.

We can blame accountants, and big corporations all we want but, as Pogo said. "We have met the enemy and he is us". We are the ones who have been giving BB kits a pass while buying up gobs of beautiful RTR models in all sorts of types, roadnames, and car variations. Most of them are even pretty faithful to the prototype, a concept unknown to Uncle Irv, who cranked our engines and cars in whatever roadnames would sell and changed nothing on the kit to match the real thing. I even have an Athearn BB NKP F-7. Bob, you know how far away from any protoype that was. Model companies are simply responding to the market. We created that market, not them.

Jim i honestly think that you nailed it right on the head, and i cant think of a better way to say it. We are the ones that are mostly responsible for the end of the BB line. Like you said, if people really wanted to keep the BB line around, they would have been buying more BB cars instead of RTR cars. I have not had anyone order anything from me from any manufacture thats been a rolling stock or locomotive kit. All my sales have been to RTR models. Now this does not include structure kits obviously.

In my opinion, BB kits have really flooded the market over the years and it was just time for them to be discontinued. Athearn was not selling nearly enough of them to make it worth there time and money to keep producing them, and again, whoose fault is that? Mostly ours for not continuing to buy the kits new from suppliers and shops. No body was buying new BB kits, instead they were buying used and old ones on ebay, forums, and elsewhere for penny's on the dollar (even cheaper then the new kits, which were cheap in the first place). This really drove down sales at Athearn on the new BB kits as Athearn doesnt see an of that money from those sales on the older previously owned kits. So when they stop getting the orders for the BB kits, its time to stop production.

Its a sad sight to see that these kits that have been around for so long and basically are the backbone of this hobby are going away, but this is what the hobby is coming too. Most guys want the RTR stuff now, they dont wanna sit and assemble the models. They want the instand gratification of taking it out of the box, having it fully detailed, and running it in a train, my self included. I would rather work on scenery and building kits, rather then assembling a freight car or engine. I loved the BB kits when i first started in the hobby, they were a good learning tool, but unfortunately they are no more.

 

[stationmaster]

They want the instand gratification of taking it out of the box, having it fully detailed, and running it in a train, my self included. I would rather work on scenery and building kits, rather then assembling a freight car or engine. I loved the BB kits when i first started in the hobby, they were a good learning tool, but unfortunately they are no more.

And, Josh, were are these people going to develop the skills, techniques, and patience needed to build these grand layouts? You've obviously had the opportunity of building a few kits. So, in a way, you've developed some of those needed appurtenances. What about those coming up behind you? Those beginning the hobby tomorrow?

The wheel wasn't made in a day. Nor did it just happen. Skills had to develop first. With kits disappearing, the easiest chance to learn those needed skills to be a model railroader goes with them. Not only are kit models the easiest avenue of learning, they are also the most rewarding. And as sure as we are discussing this subject, the cost of the hobby is going to rise to such a level that the common man won't be able to afford it. And it will happen. We are captive audience, as I said before. We will be forced to pay the price or leave the hobby. The handwriting is on the wall.

Bob

 

[blownoutcylinder]

And, Josh, were are these people going to develop the skills, techniques, and patience needed to build these grand layouts? You've obviously had the opportunity of building a few kits. So, in a way, you've developed some of those needed appurtenances. What about those coming up behind you? Those beginning the hobby tomorrow?

The wheel wasn't made in a day. Nor did it just happen. Skills had to develop first. With kits disappearing, the easiest chance to learn those needed skills to be a model railroader goes with them. Not only are kit models the easiest avenue of learning, they are also the most rewarding. And as sure as we are discussing this subject, the cost of the hobby is going to rise to such a level that the common man won't be able to afford it. And it will happen. We are captive audience, as I said before. We will be forced to pay the price or leave the hobby. The handwriting is on the wall.

Bob

It is obvious that a large sector of the market were not even doing the modelling part of the hobby as most sales have been for the RTR. With interest in the operations end of things coupled with the habit of choosing the more/less active parts of the hobby over those parts now deemed--in some minds--as inconvenient, demand for kits are just dwindling away.Hence kits will most likely become the province of a few very small mom/pop companies---if it even is there. It may just be that we are going to see a split that may just allow a few small scale operations to satisfy the needs of a few of us who still model --

But I can see a whole bunch just diving into the RTR collector market because that'll be the only way left to express an interest in the model train----forget layouts. As for the prices---the sky is the limit.

And before anyone be bouncing on someone's head about being "elitist"--consider the defensiveness of the poor modeler who is losing yet another source of his/her enjoyment. They will, of course, get defensive.

 

[Trucklover]

And, Josh, were are these people going to develop the skills, techniques, and patience needed to build these grand layouts? You've obviously had the opportunity of building a few kits. So, in a way, you've developed some of those needed appurtenances. What about those coming up behind you? Those beginning the hobby tomorrow?

Bob, I have no doubt that alot of people who are brand new to the hobby and just starting are going to loose out on some much needed kit building lessons because the BB kits are no longer being made. Your not going to see them in stores or on internet retail sites anylonger, so the new guys are going to have no idea they even existed. Which is a real bummer because the kits really did help to build up confidence and the necessary skills to start building a layout. Im with you on that side. Its going to get harder and harder and harder to find the kits, and not ones that have been built already. But we cant put the blame solely on Athearn & Horizon for there decision. If there not making money (especially in these tough times) then they are going to pull the plug, and use the money they were using for the BB line towards something else.

 

[tankist]

And, Josh, were are these people going to develop the skills, techniques, and patience needed to build these grand layouts?

Bob

bob, short answer they wont, and they wont need to.
not only MRR field experiences decreese in lurning curve. consider rant of old time photografer "wahhh, i needed to sit hours in dark room and all those wannabies have it so easy with digital" (making even better pictures). or computers, best example. i personally needed to spend hours coding the game i read about in magazine (they used to distribute the code, remember?) or later loading it from tape. and then the headache of assigning (and then debugging) memory adresses in my first assembler software pieces. and look now, everybody and their mother can code .Net applications with the visual tools.
and IMO - ITS GOOD!!! Very! the more people can create software , and the more people that can suddenly enjoy the hobby the better.

the MRR club i stopped by had cornfield made of kit. i obviously went "uhhh, why?" and the guy simply replied, "look, when i was young i had plenty of time and no money. now i run a business and can only spend so much time on our layout. if i can purchase a shortcut i'll do it".

so while it is regretfull BB reached and of line, it is not worlds end. if there will be demand there will be supply again

 

[Aarons72s]

Most of my fleet is athearn BB kits. I havent bought them very often last few years as most of the places I buy them just didn't stock them. To me since horizon hobby took over athearn they have made it just like the rest of the model railroad companies. They now do most of there stuff in the limited run batches instead of keeping everything you make instock like the old way. I am sad that the BB kits are gone but how about produce the rtr like the old BB kits? That is have the rtr line avaliable like the BB of the 90's? And as for the new plastic handrails on the new rtr diesels, to me that is a negative not a positive. One of the best things to me about the old BB engines was the metal handrails. They arent the best looking, could use redesigned stacions, but they will take a licking and keep on ticking. Every locomotive I have with seperate plastic detail parts and handrails has had them damaged and needed to be reglued back together. It don't matter how careful you are with them, you will eventually damage the handrails and plastic details. At least if they are metal you can usually bend them back. Just my two cents on this issue.

 

[Ray Kunz]

Athearn engines

I think that the new owners are hurting their business. They have damaged their distribution system by avoiding distributors like Walthers. Even more serious is the fact that their marketing is now all "ready-to-run" items. The actual design of their products is not conducive to owner repair at all.
It is also interesting that their prices have risen out of sight.

 

[Trucklover]

They now do most of there stuff in the limited run batches instead of keeping everything you make instock like the old way.

A major reason for all the manufactures doing limited runs of items is because of the economy. It has really gone downhill, and the manufactures can longer afford to do huge runs, sell some of it right when there released and then sit on the stuff for a year or two while it slowly sells. Doing limited runs of items ensures that the stuff will move and sell, which makes more money for them, and they dont have to sit on the merchandise and store it until it all sells. If the item sells out quickly, usually they will do another run on the popular ones that sold the best.....

I know for a fact that Athearn, and Intermountain are only producing a low percentage over what they get reserves for. Intermountain is over producing only about 10% of the reserve quantities, and Athearn is doing close to the same. I think Atlas is doing the same as well. Alot of companies are resorting to this, because as i said above, this ensures they wont have hundreds of the same items sitting in their warehouses for extended periods of time. They will sell them all and then they can decide to do another run on them if they think it will sell out again.

I am sad that the BB kits are gone but how about produce the rtr like the old BB kits? That is have the rtr line avaliable like the BB of the 90's?

If they did that, they would be jumping right back into the same boat they were just in with the BB line. The reason they shut production of the BB line is because there were not nearly enough sales to keep them in production.

And as for the new plastic handrails on the new rtr diesels, to me that is a negative not a positive. One of the best things to me about the old BB engines was the metal handrails. They arent the best looking, could use redesigned stacions, but they will take a licking and keep on ticking. Every locomotive I have with seperate plastic detail parts and handrails has had them damaged and needed to be reglued back together. It don't matter how careful you are with them, you will eventually damage the handrails and plastic details. At least if they are metal you can usually bend them back. Just my two cents on this issue.

I personally did not like the metal handrails at all on the BB kits, they always looked way to oversized, bulky, and unrealistic. Now if they could refine them down and make them a little closer to scale, i would be on board with that. The Plastic handrails and details are delicate, but they make the model more attractive and prototypical, which is what most of the people want in this hobby. Most of us (myself included) want super detailed layouts and for it to look the best we can. And ever little thing adds up us achieving that look.

 

[UP2CSX]

The metal handrail thing is interesting. Athearn did attempt to make the handrails look better with the fold over stanchions late in the life of the BB locomotives. Still, getting the handrails so the stanchions were were all straight and the handrail wasn't bent was a real art. The best I've seen are the SW-1500's Jerome Wheeler makes. He does an amazing job of getting them so they not only look good but they are strong as a bull. I have one of his engines and had the body off about 50 times installing and troubleshooting a DCC decoder. Except for somehow popping off the door handrails of the end cab and losing them (which Jerome graciously replaced), all I had to do was straighten the handrails back out when I was done and they looked as good as new. I told him I had the SW1500 MU'd with an Atlas MP15AC and the oversized handrails were the only way I could tell the SW1500 was a BB engine after all the detail work he does. I'd love to have metal handrails again but I remember the semi-scale brass handrail kits that were sold for Athearn BB engines. They looked great but were every bit as fragile as some plastic handrails today. Today, some model railroaders whine if they have to put a few grab irons on a model. I can't imagine the uproar if they had to fit those small brass handrails on themselves. There's also no easy way to fabricate and install brass handrails at the factory except with lost wax castings and putting them on by hand. I can't see that as being a viable alternative in today's market when plastic can be done way cheaper.

 

[RCH]

Do you honestly believe people learn model building skills from the Athearn blue box kits? How? By turning two screws? Installing the three brake appurtenances and the brakewheel by press-fitting them into the holes on the model? That hardly qualifies as building a kit, in my opinion.

Get a real kit -- Tichy, Intermountain, P2K -- if you want a railroad oriented model on which you can hone your model building skills, not a blue box.

I'm sure when the blue boxes came out they were thought of as the death of the craftsman and the end of scratchbuilding. Compared to Athearn's contemporaries, the blue box kits were instant gratification.

I promise you, there are no future craftsmen or scratchbuilders out there who will miss an opportunity with this hobby or any other because of a lack of Athearn's blue box. They will find a way and they will find materials, just as craftsmen have done a hundred years in this hobby alone.

 

[stationmaster]

RCH, though the experience may seem trivial, it is a baby step, and it builds confidence in the modeler. You think that the craftsman won't fade away? You are truly blinded. Sure go out and buy a Tichy, a P2K, or an Intermountain. I can buy 2,3,or 4 BB for what you are spending. And with a bit of detail work make them looks as good, if not better than your more expensive cars. And accomplish the result in the same amount of time, if not faster, and at less expense. The proof is in the pudding.

And just how much detail can one see in a car that is traveling around a layout? I venture to say not much, especially when weathering covers up much of the detail anyway. Detail becomes a second look when observing a well weathered car, don't you think?

When The BB line came out, all we had were wood, metal, and a combination of the two. Actually, the sides roofs, ect still had to be assembled and glued together. And many had to be painted as the wood was raw and unpainted. When the BB came out it was a blessing. No more glue marks. No more split basswood sides. Been there, done all of that. You're point is well met, but off the mark by a long shot. And the kits you've mentioned are child's play when compare to assembling a brass model. Been there done that, too. The items you mentioned could not be attempted if the modeler had not gained confidence to attempt the challenge by honing skills on less intrepid and intimidating models. I'm sure your first cars were not any of the ones whose manufacturer you have named.

Food for thought. Did Athearn discontinue BB models because they were not profitable, or did they discontinue them because RTR's were MORE profitable? By discontinuing the BB line, they can now concentrate on the more profitable product. They restrict our choices, hoping to maintain our allegiance, and sell us a product that has a higher return, at a higher shelf price, I might add.

Just a thought from one that has been in business himself.

Bob

 

[blownoutcylinder]

Food for thought. Did Athearn discontinue BB models because they were not profitable, or did they discontinue them because RTR's were MORE profitable? By discontinuing the BB line, they can now concentrate on the more profitable product. They restrict our choices, hoping to maintain our allegiance, and sell us a product that has a higher return.

Just a thought from one that has been in business himself.

Bob

Concentrate on the lines that make the most money/margin. Choices get reduced, yes, but that profit margin will increase just by cutting "labour cost" alone. Even if your labour is in China-- BTW, there is now some rumour/speculation going that Accurail may be considering dropping their kits--and the same reason is popping up. I could get really cranky and suggest the next source for cheap labour could be in Somalia.

I got accused some time ago of making out that the industry is full of Bernie Mad(e)offs. What I said was more or less the same thing as said here. There is really NO interest in GROWING a market as there is much more interest in pumping up the margins. You really do not need to do much work when it comes to cutting product lines and letting go of all kinds of things in the process

Maybe, though, this will offer some window of opportunities for small scale industries to build up around kits/budget related stuff. How about something that will re-invest in our own communities for once? I for one am looking into these ideas--

 

[stationmaster]

Barry, 'splain this to me. An Athearn blue box is probably boxed by automated lines. Both BB and RTR models go through much the same process in being molded, except that the parts for the RTR are a single mold, making a single part, unless they have some person gleaning the parts from the sprues.(Note the addition of one extra step, and probably more man power).

Then the RTR's must be assembled. (add other additional step and again more manpower.)

Ya with me here?

Now as I see it, RTR's would have to be more expensive to produce, just by adding more steps in he manufacturing process as well as the manpower to support those steps. Now how on God's Green Earth can something be more economical when the manufacturing process adds to more work stations and has to hire people to support those stations? If indeed it is true, whoever designed the thing should be receiving the Nobel for economics or technology and manufacturing. I don't see the claims as being true.

It looks more and more to me like market manipulation. It's like Athearn is saying, "Here is what we are offering and it's what you are going to buy.". We are, in essence, being bullied to accept what the manufacture is dictating to us. Whatever happened to the market dictating what is produced?

I, for one, have very few RTR cars. I probably have more cars than most on this forum, well over 3000 cars alone, not counting the passenger cars. (yes, I'm a chronic obsessive/compulsive, lol) That is really not that many when you consider, I model 3 different eras, and 9 different roads depending upon the era the layout is set to run. I must admit that this is one of the biggest drawbacks to having a modular layout. By changing out a few modules, I can travel in time some 80 years, from the 1920's to the present. I don't buy a lot of cars any more. I really don't need to add many more. though I am bolstering some of my different railroads' engine fleets. I really don't need too many more cars, unless they be coal cars, gons and flat cars.

But, to get back, I can see businesses, such as Horizon/Athearn, et al, tending to focus on fewer products to make a higher profit. I'm afraid however, that the plan may backfire. They are treading away from the capitalist philosophy that put them on the map. Sign of the times I reckon.

Bob

 

[blownoutcylinder]

If the scenario being played out is anywhere near what some of us have discussed there may very well be a manipulation of sorts going on. A poet here in Canada by the name of Irving Layton had just this sort of thing going on when a number of publishers started bleating about poetry of his sort not being done by the poets---when in fact what was really going on was THAT THE PUBLISHERS MERELY STOPPED PUBLISHING HIS, AND OTHERS, WORK!!. You see, I do sometimes end up with my tinfoil hat on for a reason.

I do think that it is more laziness on the part of some people than anything else. It is way easier to just chop the market up than growing it--that means---horror of horrors!!---you mean---we have to work?

There is another thing that I'm having fun with---what are the actual labour costs in THIS sector? Everyone be talking about these labour costs, but do we actually know what they are specifically? Are, or rather were these workers, getting the wages and benefits at the same level as someone in a more mainstream mfg sector? What are/were these costs --- really?

Time to edumicate ourselves people!