Athearn BB no more?


blownoutcylinder

Active Member
According to a post across the street---an e-mail posted 10/15/09 to all Horizon dealers that Athearn has effectively "discontinued" all Blue Box locomotives and rolling stock kits after a 50 year run.

Any truth to this rumour?:confused:
 
I read that the costs to get bb kits produced is the same to produce one of their rtr cars and until they find someone to make them cheaper again (likely a couple years) they will be discontinued. I don't know how much truth there is to that but it makes sense from a business standpoint. It's a shame for us modelers I guess but BB kits have been rather scarce for awhile now at my LHS and anytime I do see them it's always some 40 foot boxcar that I can't use or a caboose. As for BB loco's, the RTR series are not much more expensive, I mean I scooped a conrail gp38-2 for 30 bucks at my lhs which I don't tihnk you can really complain about.
 
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That sucks. I rather like their car kits. Building the two I have was fun.
 
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My LHS has or had them on back order. they were waiting for them to build more or ship them out? 99% of the 100 cars I have are BB. No other mfg makes a freight car as cheep and reliable as the old BB cars. Accurail costs a little more but I may have to start looking at buying more of them.

just last month I bought about 30+ BB cars for less than 120 shipped. you would be lucky to get 6 RTR cars for the same price!!
 
Im afraid this is what the hobby market is coming too, your going to see less and less kits as far as locomotives and rolling stock available from manufactures. It started a while back, and now is getting progressively worse, and as Jim said, most likely they can produce a RTR item for close to what they could make a kit for, they will make way more on the RTR then they would on a kit, so they are cutting way back on kits, or even eliminating the kits altogether to get the highest profit margin. Its all about money these days no matter what you buy :rolleyes:

Horizon had been listing all there Blue Box Kits, as well as all there replacement parts as "temporarily unavailable". Well i had a feeling the temporary was not so temporary and more of a permanent thing, guess i was right
 
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This has been in the making... Around a year ago, they transferred all BB kit production out of the US. This spring/summer, they moved out of the warehouse/factory they were in, in Carson, to a smaller office location in Long Beach... I guess the cost of moving the production to China was higher then they expected?
 
This has been in the making... Around a year ago, they transferred all BB kit production out of the US. This spring/summer, they moved out of the warehouse/factory they were in, in Carson, to a smaller office location in Long Beach... I guess the cost of moving the production to China was higher then they expected?

One of the problems with outsourcing is that there are a lot of hidden costs that no one thinks of---things like cultural/political interferences, translation costs, third source QC, Material costs, corporate/cultural crossovers---all manner of stuff.

Some companies in the electronics side of things are seeing that there is a benefit outsourcing---locally:rolleyes::D:D. You think this might catch on?:rolleyes::D
 
The Athearn BB kits are indeed dicontinued. If you go to the Athearn web site and look at the BB engines and kits, you'll see that they are all discontinued. They were previously all made at the the Carson CA production facility but that has been closed down and turned into a distribution facility for the RTR line. The Chinese produced RTR models are so close in price to the BB kits that sales dropped off dramatically. Athearn really only has a couple of choices. They can move to a lower production cost state from California and continue to produce BB kits in the US. They can move the production line to China and sell the BB kits at a lower price than what they have been selling for. The third, and most likely option, is drop the line altogether. There has been no new tooling for freight cars produced in almost 10 years and less and less modelers want 40 foot boxcars. The locomotive line pretty well stopped with the C44's and AC4400's, both of which are getting long in the tooth. I'd like to think they might restart the line in China but the falling dollar is unlikely to make that possible in the near future. If you want a BB kit, now is the time to scour your hobby shops and e-bay, since they will soon be no more. :(
 
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The fact of the matter is that Athearn and all similar companies are now owned by larger companies. These companies are run by accountants. Accountant see only money. They don't care what product you sell to generate the money. People today want instant gratification. Building kits takes too much time for many people, they don't have the desire or patiance to build them. That is why RTR is taking over. The accountants are just following the money. Kits will never disappear but they won't be everywhere in every price range like in the past.
 
Here's my $.02. If RTR cars can be manufactured at near the same cost, why are they almost double in price? Example, a 50-foot C&O steel side box car sells for $7.50 the same box car RTR sells for $15.99. One heck of a mark up for two items that are so close in cost to manufacture don't you think? Someone is lying and making a bundle somewhere.

I have found that RTR is not RTR. Almost all need tuning, even coupler heights vary. I still need to apply graphite to the axles. Where this move is coming from is those modelers that want instant gratification. They want to buy the car, take it home, place it on the layout, and watch it go 'round and 'round. Any semblance of craftsmanship is going out of the window, not that assembling an Athearn BB requires much skill. And to be honest, I don't know whether it is a lack of skill, a desire for instant gratification, or just being plain lazy.

Gentlemen, the end of an era is gone. And sorry I am to see it go. I think to see such a product that has truly been the backbone of our hobby so easily disappear should not be taken lightly. The days of the inexpensive, quality train models is disappearing. The price of BB models will now soar, and with it we will now see prices of other models, such as RTR, rise because we have no other choice. The Athearn BB products kept the hobby grounded. Now untethered, it will become free to fly, and believe me, the prices will climb for the alternatives we are left to buy.

And when it happens, which it will, remember, you heard it here first. I've seen changes in the hobby over my years of being a modeler, that had the same result that we will be seeing in the short future. I would encourage everyone to write Athearn and show their displeasure in the decision. This may be an omen that our hobby will only be for those with deep pockets, which not all of us have. Cheer if you will, but today I am in mourning. I can read the handwriting on the wall.

The days of the inexpensive, quality train/car , like I said, are now gone. The days of any semblance of craftsmanship are gone. It was with the Athearn BB that we practiced and groomed to be scratch builders, to muster the courage for that first craftsman kit. Mark my word, the hobby has just made a wrong turn.

Bob
 
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I'm Lazy-lazy-lazy. I hate loco & car kits. I wish the metal handrails came assembled on all loco's, but they don't. I tried for many moons to put car kits together & don't have the patience & gave them away to buddies that love kits & they still haven't made the time to put them together. I'd rather work on layout scenery, hardwiring my engines, adding more track & goofing off in my spare retired time. Anyway, the old hands aren't as steady as they use to be & those small parts going flying under my bench in never-never land. Now, if they were all magnetic I might try kits again. Nope!!!!
 
i figured something was up, the hobby shop i usually go to only had a few blue boxes. a bunch of the POS cabooses and a bunch of old 40' cars. picking up a bunch of blue box kits and putting them together was always a nice simple stress reliever
 
Much as I hate to see the BB era end, the comparison between BB models and the RTR line is unfair. The RTR line has mostly new or revised tooling, the details are much finer, the paint jobs are better, the lettering is very crisp, there are the proper car end reporting marks and numbers, and they have metal wheels and knuckle coupler. Most of the ones I have bought have been correctly weighted and there's even some decent underbody detail. Even the brakewheel is the correct color. The BB kits are using tooling that's anywhere from 10 to 40 years old so that cost was paid off a long time ago. The amazing thing is not how much RTR cars cost but how much they still want for the BB kits. The relatively high price is because Athearn tried to keep some production going in America.

Athearn is really the tail end of the demise of easy to build plastic car kits. Roundhouse has been absorbed by Horizon and is all RTR. Accurail is still hanging on by the skin of their teeth and are switching more and more RTR. Tichy Train Group still makes plastic kits but they hardly fall in the same category as the Athearn BB kits and cost as much RTR kit with no couplers and no paint. Don't even get me started on some of the kits issued by Walthers, like the miserable "easy to build" Mather double deck stock cars. :mad: The only company that is still successful with kits is Branchline and their kits, while well detailed, are not shake the box kits, and cost as much as most of the Athearn RTR line. The Yardmaster series is about as close as you can come to an Athearn BB but they are about $4 more to pay for the metal wheels and knuckle couplers. Even at that, the Yardmaster series has a fatal flaw that wil eventually kill them off. You want a transition era boxcar - no problem. You want anything else, too bad, we only make boxcars. Even Branchline is starting to make more and more RTR cars, at a pretty steep price, I might add.

If we really want to support kits, we should all be buying Intermountain and Branchline kits like crazy to let them know we still want plastic car kits. How many of us are doing so? I suspect not a lot. If you're a modern era modeler, you don't even have much of a choice, since all the container cars and other intermodal cars only come RTR. Just ask a guy like Josh Mader how many orders he gets for Branchline or Intermountain car kits compared to Athearn, Arlas, and other RTR models.

We can blame accountants, and big corporations all we want but, as Pogo said. "We have met the enemy and he is us". We are the ones who have been giving BB kits a pass while buying up gobs of beautiful RTR models in all sorts of types, roadnames, and car variations. Most of them are even pretty faithful to the prototype, a concept unknown to Uncle Irv, who cranked our engines and cars in whatever roadnames would sell and changed nothing on the kit to match the real thing. I even have an Athearn BB NKP F-7. Bob, you know how far away from any protoype that was. Model companies are simply responding to the market. We created that market, not them.

A final observation before I get off my soapbox. The one thing I've noticed in the past 10 years is the rise of really well detailed layouts. I mean city scenes that look real, roads that look real, rural scenes that look real, and mountains and sky that looks real. When I first got in the hobby, most layouts were either plywood praries or had some lichen, sawdust grass, and few terrible looking trees. Mountains looked like what they were, giant hunks of plaster with some rock molds stuck in. I was floored the first time I saw a photgraphic backdrop. My point is that, back in the days, we were so busy building kits for everything from rolling stock to structures, that we never had time to really detail a layout. I'm sure I'm different than a lot of you but what gives me real pleasure is detailing my layout and not bogged down on the workbench assembling one freight car kit or a month building a fiendishly difficult wood structure. I still like building structure kits and the occasional freight car kits. However, I bought my first ever RTR structure, the WS Municipal Building, and it is a way better looking structure than the vast majority of us, including me, could build and paint. Yes, we are entering a new era but I can't label it good or bad. It simply is what it is. Some people who really like building complex rolling stock will be left behind (although there will still be these kits available for a long time) but many others, who never had the skill to do this, will be drawn into the hobby. As long as the hobby is growing, which it is, for the first time in decades, I think we are on the right track.

All just my opimiom, take as being worth what you paid for it. :)
 
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well.....first off, i should say that i'm 24, so i'm more used to RTR than anything...not to say that i havn't bought a few kits, but i am horrible at putting them together. I just can't get them to come out right. Maybe it is the fact that, being 24, i was raised in the 80's and 90's...the era of "no asssembly required!" whichwas then becoming and is now the norm. I have seen what some of the older modelers can do with kits and it's quite amazing, but i can't even get it to come out right following hte instructions!

Bottom line is this....is this a good or bad thing??? I don't know, because RTR is pretty much all i've ever known.
 
Well I caulk it up to progress. Not saying I like it, but all things change. I'm much happier with a BB engine than a RTR one. But then again, I do like the detail level on a RTR freight car. As far as the costs of the RTR stuff, well from what I've seen, it is dropping a bit. I'm not one that has to run out and pre-order the newest this, or the newest that. Eventually things hit the market place and after the initial rush, they usually come down to a more reasonable price. Just my spin on it.

RIP Athearn Blue Box kits, you'll be missed!! :(
 
I'm sure a lot of folks here get the eletters, but here it is for those who don't:

Effective immediately, we here at Athearn have made the difficult decision to discontinue the production of our Blue Box line of kits. There were several factors that contributed to this extremely challenging decision however, the primary issue revolved around affordability and ensuring that our Blue Box kit pricing remain aligned with what the market can bear. Unfortunately, due to increased manufacturing and labor costs it has been determined that we are no longer able to continue offering kits at competitive price points as compared to our already assembled products.
For over 50 years the Athearn Blue Box kits have been sold worldwide, bringing happiness, joy and excitement to thousands of model railroad enthusiasts. Your passion for these products has allowed us to thrive and grow into the industry leader you still support today, and for that we are eternally grateful. Moving forward this will allow us to dedicate more resources to new and exciting projects in our Ready To Roll, Genesis and Roundhouse lines for another 50 years, or more.
We will continue to support all service and warranty needs on Blue Box kits from our headquarters in Long Beach, California. You can find our contact information here
 
Well---

After looking at a few miserly details such as wheelsets/couplers for RTR and detailing sets for them as well I can see why a lot of us will do RTR---I've done a fair bit myself----try finding cylinder hopper kits in N scale sometime:rolleyes:

Things such as the massive runnup on commodities markets---that really must have made it more of an issue at some point---may have played an even bigger role than labour costs( quite frankly, I'm not so positive on that being such a huge issue---if many of these smaller mfg's are an indication I doubt anyone was making much over $10/hr on a plant floor in this sector:rolleyes::confused:). The outsourcing has become something of a joke among some consultants in this field as it does not really save the mfg much. All most have done is spread their costs elsewhere---

If kits do go the way of the dodo bird there will be a split in the hobby---scratchbashers and 'fine scalers' on one side and everyone else on the other side------sort of along the line of the tin plate/hi-rail getting spun off into its own realm from the modelrailroad aspect. Around and around we go----;)
 
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I enjoy building kits. To me, that's the point of creating the next boxcar or covered hopper or locomotive model in my fleet. Simply purchasing it gives me no satisfaction compared to assembling, kitbashing or scratchbuilding models. However, I prefer the Athearn RTR stuff over the blue box kits. Just take a look at what you get compared to the blue boxes:

* improved trucks/wheels
* far better paint
* upgraded tooling/additional details
* correct coupling height (the blue boxes seemed to always suffer from low couplers)

The effort and cost it takes to fix the problems with blue box kits, then upgrade them to a level comparable to an Intermountain kit offsets the savings between the blue boxes and RTR.

RTR models are already built, so I don't get the satisfaction of building them myself, but I never considered the blue boxes to be much of a "kit" compared to Intermountain or P2K models. Adding a triple valve, cylinder, reservoir, brakewheel and trucks doesn't qualify as building a model to me, at least not in terms of me gaining satisfaction from the process. An Intermountain cylindrical hopper or a P2K Mather stock car kit (yikes!) or a Tichy crane kit is an enjoyable building experience. The fact of the matter is, I never turned to Athearn to provide that experience, so when I buy RTR I'm out nothing but the time it takes to round up the parts and correct the mistakes with the blue boxes.

If you lament the passing of the Athearn blue box, ask yourself how many you bought and built in the past five years. How many RTR models did you buy in that same five years? The success of those blue boxes years ago was based on their simplicity, ease of assembly and finished quality compared to the wood, cardstock and stamped tin and brass kits offered by their competitors. The fact that the tooling for the lion's share of the blue box line not only survives to this day, but still produces great looking castings that are the basis of today's RTR line, is a testament to the quality and care Athearn took with the blue box line.

I'm sure there were those who thought the best days were behind them when Athearn dropped the pale blue box line or the yellow box line, just as some will say now. But I say Athearn's best days are yet to come. When Irv Athearn died, there was a single conversation that dominated the counter at LHS everywhere: what will happen to Athearn now? Well, take a look at what happened. Genesis line. Ready to Roll. SD50s, SD60s, SD45T-2s, SD45-2s, the purchase of the Rail Power shell line, Details West boxcars, A-line/Milepost 501 trailers, just to name a few of the things I'm interested in. How about the return of steam, for heaven's sake! Anybody else have one of those old pale blue box 4-6-2 Pacifics from the sixties? You've got to admit, the return of steamers to Athearn was not only needed and welcomed, the execution on the models is much improved.

My point is there is a reason the blue box line is dead. They don't sell compared to the RTR. It's not because people are lazy (although as I get older, it's harder to argue that point in general), it's because for what you spend, you get much more than what's shaking in that blue box.

It's not just Athearn and MDC making plastic models anymore. Since most of those models were tooled, you have Accurail, Atlas, Branchline, Intermountain, P2K/Walthers and even some who have come and gone, like Front Range/McKean and LBF. There's no need to buy two 85' All-Purpose flats to splice them into an 89' car anymore or to chop up 62' tanks into "modern" looking cars.

But if shaking the box is your thing, or chopping up those kits to make something different is more your speed, just visit nearly any model railroad shop. Underneath the heavy coat of dust, in the sun-faded blue boxes are the kits you seek. And they will be there for years to come as they have sat there so many years before.
 
In one of the local shops yesterday that had some newer RTR Railbox boxcars. I noticed that they are the same cars that came in BB form, with the moveable doors and molded on grab irons and stirrups. I guess that's where some of them are going, at least the molds, being manufactured into regular RTR cars.

I dislike that with the drying up of kits, there is a scarcity (by Athearn) in putting anything out undecorated anymore. I have found some undecorated Roundhouse stuff that I've been working on, but some of the simple cars like the 50' ACF Railbox or 50' gondola would be nice.
 
Reading through the thread I began to form a reply to post. Then I got down to what Bob Stationmaster posted and realised he and I think the same on this. I couldn't have said it any better.

Atlas never actually produced engine and rolling stock kits as far as I can remember but they do offer just about all products in an Undec form that needs paint and some assembly of grab irons, etc. My LHS says that whenever they bring in a new release of Atlas the Undecs are the first to fly off the shelf. Either his customers still prefer some sort of a kit or else the slightly lower price is attractive compared to buying a more expensive RTR and then stripping it to repaint it. Maybe a little of both.

Athearn might take a page from Atlas' marketing book and include a number of Undecs in each production run. I'd think if the bean counters were as clever as they think they are then Undec production numbers could be set so it balances sales with no money ties up in excess inventory.

I understand an undec doesn't appeal to everyone or maybe even 30% of the modellers but there has to be a market out here as evidenced by Atlas and in a different way by Bachman and others who offer painted but no named units.

If the RTR trend continues to grow across all hobbies I wonder if we will someday in the future see the demise of Plastruct, K&S, Evergreen, and Midwest? A different market than kits but the same basic idea.
 



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