American Freedom Train.......
- Thread starter enjineerbill
- Start date
The train itself really wasn't historical. It was the artifiacts on board, which had been collected from all around the country, and represented many rare and one of a kind items. They are all still in the US, but returned to the museums that owned them.
The locomotives were historic of course, and all 3 are still around, in various states of preservation. The display cars were simply former baggage cars, and nothing special. The passengers cars were a bit more unique, and were preserved.
The train was simply a means to transport the artifacts. Once it was completed, you had an empty shell, with no potential use here in the US. They found a buyer who could use the consist as is, and the revenue was probably appreciated.
Even if the train had been preserved, intact, without the artifacts there really wouldn't be anything to see. It was pretty much just the moving van that brought the display to town for the most part.
The nice thing is that you can easily acquire accurate models of both 4449 and the 2101. 4449 models have always been pretty easy to find, but now that BLI has a T1 available, with sound, you have a choice of two of the three engines that pulled the train.
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
But Bob,
Isn't that what most of the rolling stock is at museums? I mean If you've seen ONE heavyweight passenger car, you've seen them all. I think that because these cars were constructed, and/or reconfigured, they DO have some historical significance. Years ago they used to transport whales and other oddities in specially designed cars, I happen to think that at least one of those cars should have been preserved as well. In Baraboo they have rolling stock preserved from various circuses and carnivals. Cool to see but they are after all just big flats, stocks and coaches wearing bright paint.
I wasn't saying to preserve the whole train persay, just a couple of examples of the cars in their original paint.
Johnny
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enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
And now we return to our scheduled program.
Just finished the stripes on the AFT 202 project. Learn something new everyday. I actually had to repaint everything as the first blue I used was too dark. There are no stripes produced for the train in the 1975-1976 version so they have to be masked and painted.
Next step, decals.
Happy Modeling,
Johnny
Just finished the stripes on the AFT 202 project. Learn something new everyday. I actually had to repaint everything as the first blue I used was too dark. There are no stripes produced for the train in the 1975-1976 version so they have to be masked and painted.
Next step, decals.
Happy Modeling,
Johnny
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
Hi Nick, Yes the rumor mill is rumbling with a new release of the Daylight in AFT colors. So that will probably be my choice as it is the one I saw when I viewed the train. Although the Reading T1 is still a possibility and it has already hit the market.
Johnny
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
I'm toying with the idea of building a sectional diorama for this train to have it in a town for 'display'. That way, I can take it to shows and display it as folks would have seen it. The thought of painting a couple hundred lil folks................
Thanks Scott,
Johnny
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
Thanks Fred,
It was the first time that I ever masked for stripes. The car was kind of tough from the standpoint that it has a lot of raised detail. But the results are outstanding. The photos do not do it justice. So I'm doing all the stripes with paint now.
Happy Modeling,
Johnny
I understand what you're saying, but I guess I don't know what you'd do with the empty train. Aside from a few railfans, nobody would be interested in seeing it. Where do you store it? What do you do with it?
On the other hand, the idea of restoring a few of the cars as a display about the Freedom Train itself sounded good to me. Or for that matter, maybe they could have converted the whole thing to a mobile railroad museum.
Unfortunately, the idea of selling it to Canada was the best option available at the time, so that's what they did. It was perfect for that application, so it's understandable why they did it.
The difference with the coaches is that you can see it as it was in service, or close to it. All the seats are intact, the car is in the condition it was in when people were using it.
The circus train is a good example, but they also load those cars up with circus wagons, or did at one time, and that looked a lot better.
As for saving a few of the cars, I agree that would have been an excellent idea. In fact someday I'd like to see some of the rolling stock restored to the AFT scheme etc.
I was talking about the whole consist, and keep in mind that the AFT I knew was about 27 cars long... That's a lot of train to store and maintain.
Preservation
I don't know Bob, maybe I see it differently then everyone else. I mean you are right, it could have been turned into a mobile railroad museum or for that matter, we have Steamtown here in NE PA. They could have brought it here or the people who own Steamtown could have purchased it. They could could have made replicas of what was originally transported around in it and just kept it as is. I think selling it for a fast buck, which is always the case, wasn't the right thing to do.
Scott
I don't know Bob, maybe I see it differently then everyone else. I mean you are right, it could have been turned into a mobile railroad museum or for that matter, we have Steamtown here in NE PA. They could have brought it here or the people who own Steamtown could have purchased it. They could could have made replicas of what was originally transported around in it and just kept it as is. I think selling it for a fast buck, which is always the case, wasn't the right thing to do.
Scott
I don't think they sold it "for a fast buck" Here's the problem. Railroad cars are a bit like yachts, you have to pay to store them someplace. Storage fees can get pretty expensive pretty quickly.
Now imagine you have a large train that has no revenue prospects for the foreseeable future. You don't have a railroad of your own that you can store it on for free. Selling it not only provides income, but it also stops additional expenses from being incurred.
You are correct in that economics often play a large role in these kinds of choices. However, I don't agree with the term "making a fast buck", often these are tough choices with no other reasonable options.
Yes it was probably done for the reasons you stated but I don't think it had to be that way. If someone took the time to find it a home it would have ended up in one piece somewhere instead of sold off to different railroads. I think that most parts of railroad history aren't taken seriously enough.
Scott
Scott
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
Bob and Scott- Gentleman a really great discussion has insued here with some valid points on both accounts. Perhaps a little shedding of light as to how the train was founded in the first place;
Ross Rowland(A.C.E. enterprises), usually gets the most credit for the idea of the train filled with artifacts criss-crossing the U.S. The $MONEY$ for the train came ENTIRELY from donations. The first was the Pepsicola company who doled out 1 million Washingtons, this was followed by three other companies who did the same. Although the donations were huge, NOT ONE asked for any name recognition in the form of signs or logos displayed. A small plaque inside the entrance was the only identifying source. This train was 25 and sometimes 26 cars in make-up. And would have been next to impossible to keep intact once the mission was over. The train, was sold to Canada for the Discovery Train they ran. And when they were done with it no funds were left to regain the cars. The Union Pacific gained control of most of the display cars and planned to use them for MOW and storage. Then they took the hit by a runaway in Nevada and were scrapped on sight. The other cars that survive, do so because they were cars that could serve another operating purpose(generator, coach, tourist, etc,...) We throw TRILLIONS of dollars at LOST pallets of CASH and our heritage suffers for it.
If you ever saw photos of the Canadian Discovery Train, it too was beautiful. And a car or two should have been preserved. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda......
If for no other reason, I'm glad that the Freedom Train still generates interest.
Thanks Guys!!
Johnny
Ross Rowland(A.C.E. enterprises), usually gets the most credit for the idea of the train filled with artifacts criss-crossing the U.S. The $MONEY$ for the train came ENTIRELY from donations. The first was the Pepsicola company who doled out 1 million Washingtons, this was followed by three other companies who did the same. Although the donations were huge, NOT ONE asked for any name recognition in the form of signs or logos displayed. A small plaque inside the entrance was the only identifying source. This train was 25 and sometimes 26 cars in make-up. And would have been next to impossible to keep intact once the mission was over. The train, was sold to Canada for the Discovery Train they ran. And when they were done with it no funds were left to regain the cars. The Union Pacific gained control of most of the display cars and planned to use them for MOW and storage. Then they took the hit by a runaway in Nevada and were scrapped on sight. The other cars that survive, do so because they were cars that could serve another operating purpose(generator, coach, tourist, etc,...) We throw TRILLIONS of dollars at LOST pallets of CASH and our heritage suffers for it.
If you ever saw photos of the Canadian Discovery Train, it too was beautiful. And a car or two should have been preserved. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda......
If for no other reason, I'm glad that the Freedom Train still generates interest.
Thanks Guys!!
Johnny
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
And now, back to the show......
AFT 202 (Pie Car)
Decals still wet;
Happy Modeling,
Johnny
AFT 202 (Pie Car)
Decals still wet;
Happy Modeling,
Johnny
JeffShultz
Stay off the tracks!
Johnny,
I saw something that might have interested you this weekend. I was at the WGH show in Portland and one of the vendors had the original Lionel #4449 in AFT colors for $175.
Wish I had the sort of discretionary income that would have let me pick it up - I would have simply grabbed it, either for you if you needed it or me just for fun.
I saw something that might have interested you this weekend. I was at the WGH show in Portland and one of the vendors had the original Lionel #4449 in AFT colors for $175.
Wish I had the sort of discretionary income that would have let me pick it up - I would have simply grabbed it, either for you if you needed it or me just for fun.
enjineerbill
Avid People Watcher
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for thinking of me, but NO thanks! While collectors will sometimes pay that much for an original in-the-box, I'm not a collector. As for the engine from an operational standpoint, the Bachmann was a much better runner. And I'm giving Bachmann the benefit of the doubt. I have a Lionel version that I tore down, removed the motor and will re-detail and paint and probably not re-power. But if you are a collector, they carry a HIGH collectability rating.
Johnny
