understanding couplers


B

bristolman

Member
have a athearn ac4400 in need of couplers . it was suggested by someone to get kadee no . # 5 long shank . i tried putting long shank in google search and results all over the map . i found 2 with the exact same dimensions except the distance from bottom of coupler was not given on 1 . these are the 2. whats the difference ? both 25/64 . would 1 of these be ok ?
mike
Kadee 41 Metal Long Underset Shank Coupler
Kadee 26 20-Series Coupler Long Centerset Shank
 
bristolman said:
have a athearn ac4400 in need of couplers . it was suggested by someone to get kadee no . # 5 long shank . i tried putting long shank in google search and results all over the map . i found 2 with the exact same dimensions except the distance from bottom of coupler was not given on 1 . these are the 2. whats the difference ? both 25/64 . would 1 of these be ok ?
mike
Kadee 41 Metal Long Underset Shank Coupler
Kadee 26 20-Series Coupler Long Centerset Shank
Click to expand...
Try the Kadee offset high. I think it's 32 or 42. # 5 has a shorter shank. Several of my BB dash 9's #5's were too low. Kadee's chart lists a #28. Phil
 
I have several Ath. AC4400's & some take the kadee Whisker #148 on one end & a Kadee #147 Underset on the other. If you want a long shank on the front to clear the plow then use the Whisker #146 Center shank that is a long shank.
I keep in my Kadee stock the #149 Whisker Lower shelf, #148, #147 & #146.
Some engines take the same coupler on both engines & some take an upper or lower shelf to make everything line up. The same w/rolling stock, pass. cars, etc. If you want to use the Scale couplers, then just match them to these couplers. I use the #158's on a lot of my pass. cars & the 148's on everything else.
 
which one

i appreciate the help larry ( believe me ) but you lost me . no plow so we can rule that option out . which coupler goes on what end ?
mike
 
bristolman said:
i appreciate the help larry ( believe me ) but you lost me . no plow so we can rule that option out . which coupler goes on what end ?
mike
Click to expand...

I start out w/the #148's & then if they don't line up w/the coupler heighth gage & U can tell by looking at the gage if you will need the upper or lower shelf coupler. When you use the whisker coupler you don't need the brass flat spring that goes in the coupler box w/the standard couplers like the #5's, #47 or the #46. It's a hit & miss thing. I've never found the Kadee coupler sheet gives you the exact couplers. The sheets that comes w/most coupler sets are way out of date & are only for the #5's unless they have changed lately. You have to have a coupler heighth gage. In my case I have almost 200 freight cars of all diff. brands, about 50 pass. cars of all brands & the same coupler won't always work on both ends of a car or engine. That's why I keep 3 or 4 diff. couplers in the upper & lower & standard heads.
I say again,You can't run a RR w/out a gage"":D
 
Kadee #5 (or 148 which is the whisker-spring version of the same coupler) or #58 with the "scale" size head (or the 158 whisker-spring version) are the standard coupler versions.

Always start with that. Kadee then has a number of variations with underset heads, overset heads, long shank length, medium shank, short shank, etc. for situations where the #5 doesn't quite fit right. (need a longer/shorter coupler, or the head doesn't line up quite right vertically)
 
Think of it this way. Kadee makes 3 different coupler head configurations - one where the centerline of the head and shank line up, one where the head centerline is below the shank centerline, and one where the head centerline is above the shank centerline. Those last two are the underset and overset ones. By changing which one you use, you effectively raise or lower the coupler head from the centerline of the shank.

I'd highly recommend getting the Kadee coupler height tool. It allows you to do a number of critical adjustments to the couplers and allows you to check the height of your rolling stock coupler against the NMRA standard. If your rolling stock coupler head is too low, you buy an overset coupler to raise it. If it's too high, buy an underset one to lower it. That same Kadee tool also lets you check the bend and clearance on the coupler trip pins.
 
theres even a link to a nice list for Kadee couplers, im searchin for it, its around here some where...I have it printed out my self so its helpful!
 
know this may sound dumb

its almost like you have to have 3 to 5 different thpe of coupler ? that could be a few bucks .
mike
 
bristolman said:
its almost like you have to have 3 to 5 different thpe of coupler ? that could be a few bucks .
mike
Click to expand...

Basically, yes. Because of the different dimensions of rail equipment the couplers can mount at different heights or depths from the end of the frame in order for the coupling part of the couplers to maintain consistent heights from the rail and be appropriate distance from the end of the equipment. So the coupler dimensions need to be different in order to accommodate.

This is not a bad thing, and if you have even a modest fleet of equipment you will eventually use everything you purchase. You just have to purchase more than you need when getting started :)

It's also possible to buy more generic couplers and adjust the mounting system to accommodate, but you'll likely find it more effective to use different coupler models.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I go along with Larry's comments, especially about keeping a variety of Kaydee couplers on hand. I'm not trying to spend your money for you, but you probably can save in gas or postage repeated trips to you favorite hobby shop. The basic Kaydee design, as brought out in the original #5 is great from the knuckle face to the beginning of the shank. But there are so many different configurations of locomotives and rolling stock that you probably need different shank lengths and coupler heighths. The old #5 will work fine for a lot of stuff. But when it comes to locomotives and passenger cars, you need to do a bit of finagling. The "whisker" couplers are a great innovation, but they don't come in all the configurations...yet.

One thing to check before ordering is whether the envelope says "standard" or "scale". While the scale look better, if the majority of your couplers are Kaydee "standard", stick with those. The "scale" will couple with the "standard", but may cause some interface problems with the larger ones.
 
Kadees are 4 bucks for 2 pairs retail with most shops discounting them for about $3.50-$3.75 plus tax. They're not exactly bank breakers. I usually keep at least one pair of medium overset shank, medium underset shank, long centerset shank, #148 whisker couplers and #119 shelf couplers.

The overset and underset are great for some equipment where it's not easy to modify the ride height, such as with locomotives.

The long centerset shank couplers are great for locomotive pilots. Some brands such as Athearn, Walthers, and Intermountain make locomotives where the plow would get in the way of the trip pins on the couplers causing uncouplings on curves, or cars would refuse to couple to the engine.

The #148 whisker couplers are for cars where the coupler pocket is too shallow to accept a regular bronze centering spring with a #5.

The #119 shelf couplers are for tank cars.

If I need anything else, such as a long underset shank coupler, I'd usually go to the LHS for those, but Kadee hasn't been making them for a while (they're on the list, but is always unavailable/sold out when the LHS tries to order them) so I have a small stash of them that I received from forum members a while back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have never understood the idea of trip pins on a loco...you never uncouple then on a uncoupling magnet, and if you do need to then you use the twist stick to do it. If a loco is detailed properly, you will have your trainline hose hanging out over the middle of the plow of out beside the coupler where it comes out on the prototype...
 
CbarM said:
I have never understood the idea of trip pins on a loco...you never uncouple then on a uncoupling magnet, and if you do need to then you use the twist stick to do it. If a loco is detailed properly, you will have your trainline hose hanging out over the middle of the plow of out beside the coupler where it comes out on the prototype...
Click to expand...

It depends on how tight a radius curves you have. If they are tighter than about 24-inches the coupler swing is going to exceed that of the prototype by quite a bit. Therefore, you will probably have a wider slot in the pilot than the prototype. So far as uncoupling is concerned, again it will depend on a number of things. I've uncoupled locos from trains over the magnetic uncoupler. OTOH, where I use a shelf-type coupler to keep slightly uneven couplers from detaching on a vertical separation, about the only thing that will work is a magnetic uncoupler. The twist stick or a wooden chop stick just won't do the trick.

As far as the trainline hoses hanging over the middle of a plow or pilot is concerned, there are times when you just have to sacrifice absolutely authenticity to practicality.

Obviously, you are entitled to place any emphasis on the sitaution that you want.
 
Well I was just talking relatively and based on my experience. The tightest turn I have on my layout is 24.5" radius, most being 27" or more. I have my locos painted in my own fictional colors and so I detail them accordingly before paint. Some folks are happy with loco's right out of the box and Im not knockin em for it, but others like to spend the time and make things more realistic is all...every modeller is different.
 
What about old HO scale rolling stock like Tyco, Lifelike and AHM? Would a Kadee #148 be a suitable replacement for the horn hook couplers in those truck mounted gear boxes?
 
While it is possible to mount the right Kaydee couplers on the truck-mounted draft gear (check the chart), you will be better off cutting the truck mountings off and body-mount the appropriate draft gear to the frame.
 
Before I started getting the correct coupler for the rolling stock I would add a washer on top of the truck where it screws to the bottom of the car. That caused a lot of problems on some cars because it rocked back & forth & would tip over on curves real easy. I then added weights & then found that didn't work either. Then I added shims to the top of the trucks to keep the car from tilting sideways. That was a lot of trouble for a long time. Then Kadee came out w/the diff. heights of the Whisker. That solved all of my problems. I removed spacers, shims & some xtra weights & now 99% of my rolling stock runs true. The Drop Center Flats that Walthers makes were a problem right at the beginning until I found a fix for them(I have 4). I add a very thin washer on top of the trucks & then put on a drop head coupler. Then on some of them I had to grind off the top of the truck a tiny bit & add a raised head coupler. I think that's why you see so many of them at trainshows for a cheap price. I buy everyone I see if the price is right & some need a lot of extensive reworking because the person that is selling it tried to make it work too.
It takes a lot of work to make everything line up. It reminds me of when I use to build Streetrods. Putting a giant engine in a small space took a lot of work making everything line up so the driveshaft was straight. I once put a 327 Chevy in a 1959 Volvo.:D:eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top