Layout Scene Rework (Town/Steel Mill)

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IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
... Dang, there are a lot of turnouts$$$$$$$. All I have on hand are 5L #5's and 4R #5's...
Rex, I specified #6's because [1] they minimize potential derailments in yard switching (S-curves etc.) and [2] the hot-metal cars, with their 6-wheel buckeye trucks, don't like anything smaller. (I'll admit it was the #4's that were giving me fits, I never had any #5's on my own layout...)

Sounds like my OH furnace will have to be a miracle furnace that produces steel plates as an end product:rolleyes: . I have to think about the distance of the hot car switching versus having room for a rolling mill (or a building that I call a rolling mill). There may be enough switching action with ore, coal, supplies, coke, by-products, to satisfy this. Speaking of by-products from the coke plant, that is another animal that could eat up space in a hurry...
If I get enough time to "play" later this evening, I'm going to try drawing up an XtrCAD plan with the buildings arranged as I would have done them, without your "druthers" of having the BF's hot-metal side facing the operators. I do believe I can rig something to fit more buildings...we'll see...

BTW Don't even think about trying to cram a coke by-products plant on that already maxed-out extension - except for maybe some piping from an off-layout facility to load a tank car (that's all I have room to do on mine).
 

Steve B

Firefighter
Tell you what,
this is one great thread, i'm very excited by it, Rex you got huge potential in your RR room.
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Rex, I specified #6's because [1] they minimize potential derailments in yard switching (S-curves etc.) and [2] the hot-metal cars, with their 6-wheel buckeye trucks, don't like anything smaller. (I'll admit it was the #4's that were giving me fits, I never had any #5's on my own layout...)

#6 will be fine. I can always use my others somewhere...probably in the town area.

If I get enough time to "play" later this evening, I'm going to try drawing up an XtrCAD plan with the buildings arranged as I would have done them, without your "druthers" of having the BF's hot-metal side facing the operators. I do believe I can rig something to fit more buildings...we'll see...

The only reason I wanted the hot metal side facing the primary operator side is the back of the blast furnace is near blank (uninteresting) with the exception of the hoist and ore dump. Maybe you can help me with this as well. Please, let me see what you have in mind. I am open to anything.

BTW Don't even think about trying to cram a coke by-products plant on that already maxed-out extension - except for maybe some piping from an off-layout facility to load a tank car (that's all I have room to do on mine).

Yeah, I know and I am out of extension to the extension space. But boy would that ever be a heck of a complex.:D :D
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Tell you what,
this is one great thread, i'm very excited by it, Rex you got huge potential in your RR room.

Thanks Steve and hopefully this addition/change will really add to the fun. Thanks for joining the thread...there will be a lot more as we go along.;) :)
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Ken: I set the structures up with reference to Rev.2 drawing. As you can see there is a heck of a lot of room between the blast furnace and the rest. While this may be correct, the blaster needs to be moved farther down the extension and centered to allow for the curve leading to the ore dump and the track going along the backside. Also, you can see the the coke mill is pretty jammed up near the OH building, with the quencher building almost in the door. One thing you may want to consider is that I won't be doing a lot of switching of the hot metal...mostly ore, coal, freight, and finished product. The hot metal will be mostly show with maybe 6 or so cars only.

DCP_17290001.jpg


DCP_17290003.jpg


DCP_17290002.jpg
 
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lemscate

Member
I hope you don't mind if I butt in a little here, but I have a suggestion. Since there's no room for a rolling mill on your little (heh) peninsula there, you could always separate your steel mill into two parts. Put the majority on the peninsula, and the remainder somewhere else on your layout. For example, keep the trackplan as Ken has it, and put a rolling mill farther down the main line, then shuttle the ingots in gondolas to it. Or, move the open hearth furnace somewhere else, and locate the rolling mill next to it: you can then run a bottle train between the two locations, and the finished steel comes from a different place than where the ore goes. The advantages are being able to include all the structures, and having a little more breathing room for them, as well as all the fun that derives from having 15 mile an hour hot metal trains clogging up the main line.

Though, I don't know if you have enough empty space anywhere that you're willing to devote to more steel mill. Something for you to consider..
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
A dirty job, but SOMEBODY's gotta do it...

OK Rex,

I sure hope you didn't permanently glue your coke conveyors to their respective structures, because what I have in mind involves laying out your coke mill a lot differently from the standard Walthers method. You'll see what I mean when you look at Rev. 3 of the track plan. This version lets you spot ore cars, coal hoppers, scrap metal gons and [ta-daaah...] coil cars! And you can still run hotmetal and slag cars as in the first two plans.

Track Index
-------------------------------------------------
1 -- Road Locomotive Runaround & Switcher Pocket
2 -- Arrival/Departure Track
3 -- Yard Track
4 -- Yard Track
5 -- Yard Track
6 -- Blast Furnace Highline
7 -- Blast Furnace Highline
8 -- Coking Coal Dump Track
9 -- Coiled Steel Loading
10 - Open Hearth Scrap Metal Receiving
11 - Open Hearth Hot Metal Receiving
12 - Runaround/Thru Track
13 - Hot Metal Loading
14 - Hot Metal Loading
15 - Slag Car Loading

Notes:

Operation can be done from either side (left or right) of peninsula.

Coke mill crusher and conveyors are arranged in a linear, rather than parallel, pattern to make room for additional track and structures.

Open-Hearth mill is derived from two Walthers "rolling mill" buildings.

Spurs are available for spotting: ore jennies (6 and 7), coal hoppers (8), coil cars (9), and scrap metal gondolas (10)

Two sets of 3 hot-metal cars are spotted at the blast furnace (13 and 14) and the open hearth (11); operating scenario: move empty hotmetal cars from O/H to slag car lead, pull loaded hotmetal cars from cast house to O/H, then come back and move empty hotmetal cars from slag lead to cast house.

Slag cars are operated over the main line to a remote dumping site.

Open spaces are available for additional smaller buildings and/or access roads.

---------------------------------------------------

I'll email you the .xtc file separately, since I've learned that this site clobbers ZIP'd XtrCAD files :rolleyes:

Enjoy!
 

jbaakko

Diesel Detail Freak
Ken I can see one issue with that plan, blocking the main line for yard to mill transfers...
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
Ken: I set the structures up with reference to Rev.2 drawing. As you can see there is a heck of a lot of room between the blast furnace and the rest. ... One thing you may want to consider is that I won't be doing a lot of switching of the hot metal...mostly ore, coal, freight, and finished product. The hot metal will be mostly show with maybe 6 or so cars only.
Then I think you'll like rev.3 - it relegates the switching of hotmetal cars to the back (right) side of the peninsula, with 3 out of four over-the-road freight car types being spotted in the front (left).

I agree with you about the first two revs, their track arrangements didn't leave much room for placement of buildings - the photos make that painfully obvious!:D
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
Ken I can see one issue with that plan, blocking the main line for yard to mill transfers...

Josh I agree, I hated having to do that, but I couldn't see any other way to squeeze in the extra rolling mill buildings and car-spotting locations that Rex wanted.

Those mill crews will have to move quickly I guess...:D

Rex, I don't suppose maybe adding a 3rd outer track running parallel to the main would be an option to address this weakness?
 

jbaakko

Diesel Detail Freak
Josh I agree, I hated having to do that, but I couldn't see any other way to squeeze in the extra rolling mill buildings and car-spotting locations that Rex wanted.

Those mill crews will have to move quickly I guess...:D

Rex, I don't suppose maybe adding a 3rd outer track running parallel to the main would be an option to address this weakness?
Good thought! ;) ;)
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Ahhhh, man! Now we are getting somewhere. I likey! Let me study it a little closer, but this one is more in-line with the setup I hoped for. Naw, Ken I never glued the conveyors just because of what if's.;)
Question: Doesn't the coke track (dump side) have to connect somewhere?

KEN/JOSH: Don't worry about the mainline. With the design work of the mill getting better and better, I can now look at reworking the track in the town area. I can start by coming in through the wall near the unused mountain tunnel entrance with a wye that connects to the the inner track (existing reversing loop), thus leaving a separate steel mill lead. Town trains from the other direction would switch to this inner track leaving the lead free. I will have to put it on paper to see how best I can do it, but feel confident that it will work: both for the town and the steel mill.

Got to do some thunking! Ha!:D

I will play with it tomorrow and see more. thanks!
 
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RexHea

RAIL BENDER
...I hope you don't mind if I butt in a little here, but I have a suggestion. Since there's no room for a rolling mill on your little (heh) peninsula there, you could always separate your steel mill into two parts. Put the majority on the peninsula, and the remainder somewhere else on your layout...

Heck, you're not butting in. That's why the thread is here; to get input from all and at the same time and hopefully helping others. You have some very good thoughts, but I do need to keep the mill all together. Once, I did think about a relocation of the coke mill perhaps to the coal mine town, but I decided to keep it in one complex if possible.

Yeah, it would be fun to hear the operators fussing with a slow bottle train, but I got a Shay that likes to take Sunday drives on the main. Boy! That is sloooow. :D
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
...Question: Doesn't the coke track (dump side) have to connect somewhere?

Technically yes, if it's standard guage; however, since everything can be done in that finite location - discharge, quench, then dump into coke wharf (underground chute beside discharge track, not pictured) - I figured it wouldn't be necessary. Just trying to keep things simple. If you really wanted to, you could attach a turnout to Track #13.
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
I spent all of yesterday trying out Ken's last design by placing the structures and temporarily setting track/turnouts in place. The first thing that I ran across as a problem is at the entrance to the steel area. This is something that has nothing to do with the steel operations, but is a problem when trying to match up to the designated town area and track. It now looks like I will have to adjust quite a bit for this and not be able to have such a large complex that includes the three buildings at the entrance. Maybe one there and the open hearth at the far end

Ken and all: I have worked out a new location for the structures and a general idea of how the track can run. It is not as nice as Ken's, but still can get the job done...I think:confused: . It also required shortening of car runs (track) which is ok since most of the action will not be centered with the manufacturing angle, but with cars in and cars out.

A big plus with this new design is the use of my parts on hand. I shouldn't have to buy much and can build some #6's with Fastrack jig.

I have asked Carey to draw it up for me in XtrkCad since it won't take him long, but take me days, considering I still have to familiarize myself with it. I will post it when he sends it to me and let everyone critique it.

lemscate: your idea may still be a strong possiblility;) :D .
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
... It now looks like I will have to adjust quite a bit for this and not be able to have such a large complex that includes the three buildings at the entrance...
Rex I'm not surprised, rev-3 was a 'best case scenario' idea. Track planning software (no matter which one) always seems to make the available space look alot bigger than reality. Glad you caught it early.
Ken and all: I have worked out a new location for the structures and a general idea of how the track can run. ... It also required shortening of car runs (track) which is ok since most of the action will not be centered with the manufacturing angle, but with cars in and cars out.
Lots of people don't even operate their bottle cars or slag cars at all, but use them as window-dressing; a parked trio of rusty, skull-encrusted bottle cars always looks cool sitting on a track that disappears behind a building.
lemscate: your idea may still be a strong possiblility;) :D .
The former Acme Steel Co. had their blast furnace in South Chicago, while their BOF shop was 8 miles away in Riverdale[?]. They had to include spacer gondolas between each bottle car in the train so the various bridges they crossed wouldn't collapse. Quite an interesting sight!
 
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lemscate

Member
The former Acme Steel Co. had their blast furnace in South Chicago, while their BOF shop was 8 miles away in Riverdale[?]. They had to include spacer gondolas between each bottle car in the train so the various bridges they crossed wouldn't collapse. Quite an interest sight!

That's what I was thinking about. I do a lot of railfanning down near Gary and Chicago, and always try to find the 'bottle train.' Though now it runs from one of the blast furnaces in Gary. Not too often does one see a train chugging along at 15 m.p.h. on the Water Level Route! Also of interest is that it takes different routes to and from, since it's high priority when loaded, but low priority when empty. It also has an engine on each end so the crew doesn't have to run around the cars at either mill or any trailing point junction. Could be real interesting to model! wink wink nudge nudge!
 




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