Hopefully Final Track Plan, 10 month anniversary (all comments welcomed)

ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.


GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
Track Plan 10 month anniversary -all comments welcomed- (updated 6/23/06)

Hello Gang,

Well today is our 10th month anniversary of starting out on a track and layout plan and what a long strange trip it’s been.

The OL and I started out knowing nothing about Model railroading or real life railroads and nothing much about our chosen line, location and setting. We started with a simple idea ‘The ATSF line sometimes in the 1950’s where it runs along sections of Route 66’, it seemed pretty simple and so off we set.

Along the way we left behind the idea of converting our garage to a train room because of expense and switched instead to using a spare bedroom which meant scraping the track plans we’d started for that space (four refined versions) and starting up a whole new one.

The move to a smaller space brought about a period of refinement – Just what was the right place to model in the space given that met our original idea? That meant learning as much about Route 66 and the ATSF as we could; along the way things narrowed and narrowed and we ended up with: 1954 late spring to early summer in northern Arizona, along the line between Pinta and Holbrook Arizona and a big change – a fictional town depicting as many of the elements we wanted as we could.

So we set out with a new set of design ideas for the new space. At first the idea of a small point to point was explored but many problems presented themselves. Concerns we had no idea of slowly surfaced, things like staging, passing sidings switchbacks, runarounds, yard designs – sometimes the lists of things to learn seemed endless but John Armstrong and Frank Ellison’s books were always close by and then came Ian Rice and many others.

Through it all there also was the single greatest and most invaluable aid – wonderful, giving, patient sagely members of the forums. From Trains.com to the Gauge, modelrailroadforums.com, and good folks along the way: Texas Zephyr, Leighant, SpaceMouse, Ereimer, Masonjar, Fred Wright, 60103, Joe Fugate, Byron Henderson and many, many more who I apologize to for not naming here. Without all of you all this would have come to nothing.

So now ten months, 5 major redesigns and 14 total plans later I’ve come back to feeling that I am potentially finished yet again so I come back again to my friends, mentors and ministers to show where I am and hear what comments, criticism and advice you can offer.

So here is to ten months and good pals! :D


Here is the basic information with track plan picture below. As always any and all comments criticisms, advice or questions are welcomed and wanted.

Track Plan Info:

Scale: HO
Name: Route 66 Railway.
Locale: Northern Arizona alongside route 66. (In the fictional town of Gila, AZ)
Period: 1954, late spring to early summer.
Layout Height: Starting at 50".
Track: Code 83.
Turnouts: #6 on Mainline and inside Staging, #5 on industry spurs, #6 ½ curved leading to Staging, #7 ½ curved on Corner Crossovers, # 2 ½ wye on Wye and Industry spur.
Curve Radii: 28" outside mainline, 26" inside mainline, some curves much broader in other areas- broadest curve in plan 6’ 2”.
Outer Loop: Eastbound Traffic, Right handed (clockwise) running.
Inner Loop: Westbound Traffic, Left handed (counter-clockwise) running.
Industries: A - Scrap Yard, B – Fuel Oil Supplier, C - Shipping Warehouse, D – Bolt and Screw Factory, E – Station, F - Concrete Plant, G – Oil Field/Oil Tanks,
H – Freight House/Team Track, I - Stock pens, J – Agricultural Co Op, K – Gravel Company.
Points of Interest: A to C–2 to 13 Town of Gila, J-12 Blue Moon Drive In, G-2 E-2 Ranches.

View attachment 3435
(click for a larger version of view at http://mysite.verizon.net/coyote97/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/BedPlan10.jpg)

Peace.
Coyote


P.S. I apologize for the length of this post. I just had a lot to say for a change. ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know that you need the crossovers on the tracks in the closet. For the most part you will be backing a whole train in or out of storage anyway, so I don't know if they add anything operationally, just take up storage space. Perhaps a compromise would be to keep one and eliminate one?
 

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
I see Gandy's point, but I can also see the desire for a runaround so that you don't have to pick-up your engines. But unless you are running two engines back to back, you'll have to spin the engine anyway.

That same type of runaround is needed for you industries so that you can switch them from either direction.
 

NZRMac

In Training Down Under.
Any chance of making the track to staging into a wye? You could turn whole trains and come out of staging and go either direction.


Ah-ha just been reading your post over the tracks!! I see your removing the doors on the closet, so you will have room for the Wye into staging. A turnout in the outer loop top right into the staging track.


Ken.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NZRMac said:
Any chance of making the track to staging into a wye? You could turn whole trains and come out of staging and go either direction.
You know, I was just going to post again and say that you've worked so long and hard on this it is time to build, learn, and change later. BUT I think NZRMac has got a point here! If indeed you are removing the closet door perminantly and not just for construction. Put a wye turnout on the main and another left hand on the lead to the stagging yard and you could come and go from either direction.
 

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
Hum, I love the theme, but think you need more staging to really have fun with it. Could the closet doors be removed and an opposing staging yard be added along the wall outside of the closet? With building fronts, the yard could be used as visable staging in the form of a town.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
I like G-man's idea and you have room. In fact, you have room for a couple more tracks inside the closet as is. At home, I have 4 staging tracks in 10 inches.

(Does no one else see the need for runarounds for his switching areas?)
 

HaggisKennedy

Coal Shoveler
Like where? He has runarounds in the yard, that would be where I'd do my runarounds if I needed to. Just by looking at the plan quickly, I can mentally sketch out an operational plan to switch almost all the industries going in either direction on the main..... The basic train would either be a local or a turn, using the yard in the closet as the endpoint.

In fact, a part of my layout is similar to how Grandpa has the upper half of his layout set up. The main difference is that I have a siding with a runaround off the main to stuff cars into.

Kennedy
 

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
The top part of the plan is what I'm talking about. Yes, he has a runaround in staging, but the nearest runaround to the top area is off to the right (in a different scene) and you cannot get to the switching area without two extra moves.

I think a runaround is needed in the main switching area at the top.
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
jbaakko said:
I dunno what to say, I got so lost in reading that... Good luck!
I apologize I did go on a bit. The OL says I'm a master at "holding court". ;)
Thanks for the well wishes I think it's going to be fun.

Peace.
Coyote
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
GandyDancer said:
I don't know that you need the crossovers on the tracks in the closet. For the most part you will be backing a whole train in or out of storage anyway, so I don't know if they add anything operationally, just take up storage space. Perhaps a compromise would be to keep one and eliminate one?
GD,
Thanks for the advice, it was helpful. I've done a redesign on the staging and I'll be posting it at the bottom of the thread, I kept the two crossovers for running around but expanded a bit and added in one staging track without any fouling from a crossover.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Peace.
Coyote
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
SpaceMouse said:
I see Gandy's point, but I can also see the desire for a runaround so that you don't have to pick-up your engines. But unless you are running two engines back to back, you'll have to spin the engine anyway.

That same type of runaround is needed for you industries so that you can switch them from either direction.

Chip,

Great point, as always. I just responded to Gandy and mentioned to him that I did a redesign on the staging and I also added in a crossover on the main that I think might help with what you have mentioned. I'll be posting the changes at the end of my replies today. Take a look and let me know what you think buddy; looking forward to the feedback. This round of advice has been excellent. Thank you.

Peace.
Coyote
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
NZRMac said:
Any chance of making the track to staging into a wye? You could turn whole trains and come out of staging and go either direction.


Ah-ha just been reading your post over the tracks!! I see your removing the doors on the closet, so you will have room for the Wye into staging. A turnout in the outer loop top right into the staging track.


Ken.

Ken,

You are spot on! I have to tell you that when I get advice from you guys I always sit down and seriously consider it but sometimes if its just one piece of advice from one fellow and I can't wrap my head around it I might put it in my "personal preference" box to take out and look at later, but this time I've had half a dozen folks suggest adding a wye into the staging and when I first read the suggestion the little light when on and I wondered how I'd missed that. :confused: Thank you for pointing it out, I have now added a wye into the staging and I'll post the new plan at the end of my replies today.

Looking forward to hearing back from you and thanks again.

Peace.
Coyote
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
grande man said:
Hum, I love the theme, but think you need more staging to really have fun with it. Could the closet doors be removed and an opposing staging yard be added along the wall outside of the closet? With building fronts, the yard could be used as visable staging in the form of a town.
Grande,

Thanks for the advice. I see your point that more staging is a must; however I'm not sure that I am following what you’re suggesting? If I put more staging outside the closet then I'll be blocking one door at least totally and eating up a fair amount of people clearance between the edge of the main loop area and the outer closet wall. Maybe you could explain it again to me?
That being said your suggestion did make me realize certain things - The space I was using width wise for staging in the closet was pointless as it only left me 1 foot of clearance between inner closet wall and staging benchwork edge. Now that is just silly of me I ain't gonna fit in that space anyway and I know I have at least 24" of easy reach on my arm... So I expanded the staging benchwork to 18" wide and redid the staging, which allowed me another staging track and increased my over all staging track lengths slightly.

I'm posting the changes at the end of my replies today and I'm interested to hear what you think of it.

Looking forward to talking more with you on it.

Peace.
Coyote
 

GrandpaCoyote

Wiley Old Dog
Hey Gang,

Well here we go again! :) Great round of advice gang it was full of food for thought.

I added a Wye set up from the Main into the staging so now trains can leave the staging heading in both directions, switched the direction of the crossover at F-13 and added a crossover at B-9 - this should enable trains to exit and enter either loop from staging onto the proper loop (inner or outer) and still be facing the correct directions for east bound or west bound traffic as well as allow trains to cross over to exit back out into staging from either loop - flipped the facing of the Concrete Plant at F so that I could extend out some track for the B-9 crossover, brought the closet staging benchwork out to 18", traded the #6 turnouts in the staging for #5 and reorganized the staging into a simple ladder giving me one more staging track, shifted the left hand most crossover in the staging tracks over giving me one staging track clear of any crossovers and making the smallest staging track a good place to run around and move engines (I hope/think?) and finally I highlighted the liftout/pullout section that leads into the main area in yellow (no duck unders for me).

Well gang I think that is all the info this round. Tell me what you think, can't wait to hear back from you all.

And again and as always: Thank You -ALL- for your time, support and sagely advice.


Track Plan Info:

Scale: HO
Name: Route 66 Railway.
Locale: Northern Arizona alongside route 66. (In the fictional town of Gila, AZ)
Period: 1954, late spring to early summer.
Layout Height: Starting at 50".
Track: Code 83.
Turnouts: #6 on Mainline and inside Staging, #5 on industry spurs, #6 ½ curved leading to Staging, #7 ½ curved on Corner Crossovers, # 2 ½ wye on Wye and Industry spur.
Curve Radii: 28" outside mainline, 26" inside mainline, some curves much broader in other areas- broadest curve in plan 6’ 2”.
Outer Loop: Eastbound Traffic, Right handed (clockwise) running.
Inner Loop: Westbound Traffic, Left handed (counter-clockwise) running.
Industries: A - Scrap Yard, B – Fuel Oil Supplier, C - Shipping Warehouse, D – Bolt and Screw Factory, E – Station, F - Concrete Plant, G – Oil Field/Oil Tanks,
H – Freight House/Team Track, I - Stock pens, J – Agricultural Co Op, K – Gravel Company.
Points of Interest: A to C–2 to 13 Town of Gila, J-12 Blue Moon Drive In, G-2 E-2 Ranches.

View attachment 3465
(click for a larger version or view at http://mysite.verizon.net/coyote97/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/BedPlan10b.jpg)

Peace.
Coyote
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
GrandpaCoyote said:
Grande,

If I put more staging outside the closet then I'll be blocking one door at least totally and eating up a fair amount of people clearance between the edge of the main loop area and the outer closet wall. Maybe you could explain it again to me?




Coyote
I was thinking that the intent was to duck under into the center of the layout for operating and viewing and that the space between the closet wall and layout was mainly for door clearance. In looking at your plan again, I see what you mean though, there's only 2 1/2 feet to work with even if you wanted to lay track in that space. Even so, if you did view from the center area like I was thinking, you could extend you mainline another 2 1/2 feet to the closet wall (double main times 2 sides = 10 extra feet of mainline action!), put a backdrop all the way around the layout (save the doors), and get that feeling that you're "in" the little world your going to create. You'd also have alot more space "inside" the operators area. That's what we did on our layout and it works well unless you get alot of visitors at once.

Here's a crazy question for you. Is there any possibility of going thru a wall into an adjoining room for staging space? You could fit a good bit on a 12" shelf in the next room, but it would require a "yard" operator there or some form of train detection. Just a thought... You can always tell the wife "it's just sheetrock".;)

I'd like to say again, I LOVE the theme. But then, I'm a little nuts about western railroading (and the ATSF)... ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
IF you went with a pinwheel configuration for you staging yard you could increase both the number of tracks and the length. (See Armstrong)
 
Well all things considered this layout isn't really that big such that the train will be able to remain in one "scene" at all times. Besides a bigger issue I think we have all mostly forgotten in the last ten months as the true main reason for the layout is to show off Grandpa Coyote's SuperChief which is bigger than ANY of the scenes and will probably consume two of the storage tracks all by its lonesome.
 

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
On a similar note, I'd like to see Diablo Canyon built on the wall with the window, even if it means losing an industry. It would make the layout on a scenic level. GC, post that picture you have of it, please.
 




Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)


ModelRailroadForums.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com

RailroadBookstore.com - An online railroad bookstore featuring a curated selection of new and used railroad books. Railroad pictorials, railroad history, steam locomotives, passenger trains, modern railroading. Hundreds of titles available, most at discount prices! We also have a video and children's book section.

ModelRailroadBookstore.com - An online model railroad bookstore featuring a curated selection of new and used books. Layout design, track plans, scenery and structure building, wiring, DCC, Tinplate, Toy Trains, Price Guides and more.

Top