BLI versus MTH quality?


PIN DR

Member
I am looking at steam locomotives in HO scale with DCC. I have narrowed my search down to locomotives made by Broadway Limited and MTH. The MTH locos are more expensive, I suspect because they are all metal as opposed to metal chassis and ABS bodies.

Is there a general consensus as to which manufacturer has the higher quality? If I'm going to spend either $370 or $270 on a loco, I'd like to get the good quality with good value too. If MTH is just that much better, I'll spend the extra $100, but if they are very close, then $100 less would be good.

interestingly, I like the looks/style of the cheaper BLI loco a little better, but quality means a lot to me too.

Thoughts?

Jeff
 
I have recently bought several Intermountain locos because of their better decoder characteristics. BLI decoders draw a lot of current on start up while IM not so much. Detail level is very good in both models, so unless you want to display the loco in a lighted display case, either one is sufficiently detailed for operating on a layout.
The decoder characteristics I'm refering too are: when the loco is in consist, the IM loco functions, i.e. lights, bell, horn, dynamic brakes, sound can still be toggled without having to break it out of consist while the BLI loco has to be dropped from the consist to turn headlights on/off, toggle sound etc.
 
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Is there a general consensus as to which manufacturer has the higher quality? If I'm going to spend either $370 or $270 on a loco, I'd like to get the good quality with good value too. If MTH is just that much better, I'll spend the extra $100, but if they are very close, then $100 less would be good.

interestingly, I like the looks/style of the cheaper BLI loco a little better, but quality means a lot to me too.
I don't own any MTH and never will, but it has nothing to do with their quality. To me they just look like toy trains (probably because that company came from the 3 rail world). On the other hand I have about 20 BLI/Precision Craft locomotives, many of their passenger cars and other rolling stock. I can enumerate the issues I've had on one hand. Most of these were fixed with a screw driver.

D&J is correct though, the first BLI locomotives with the original QSI DCC decoders were buggers to program. The sound systems sucked so much power the programming track detected it as a short circuit, the sound functions interfered with programming on the main so one had to do it all with direct CV manipulation. The newer ones not so much, I programmed one in about 20 seconds the other night using all the normal system commands. I don't use consisting a lot so I trust his comments about that feature.
 
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The main problem with the mth engines are, as I see them, 1.They are NOT fully DCC compatible. There are CV's that can only be programmed on mth's dcs system which is totally incompatible with DCC. 2. On many of their models there are details that just "don't look quite right". Some of the detail is clunky. Its like they're trying to bring a "toy train" attitude to a scale hobby. 3. It appears that mth has been having a lot of QC problems, esp. recently, based on comments on this and other forums. While all companies have some QC problems, BLI and others seem to be faster in their turnaround on repairs and warranty work.

Like IH, I too will never own a mth product. I've repaired some, and I don't like what I've seen in their products.
 
Well... it really does depend on what you want in your loco's. None are 100% accurate (that I know of). I have 9 MTH steamers. 3 Big Boy's, a Challenger, a 9000 class, a Mikado, a Cab Forward, a GS6, and a Hudson. With the exception of the latest release of steam I have had good luck with them. I don't like that I really can't consist their steam with other manufacturers and that the so-called DCC compatibility is laughable at best. The latest releases they changed the drawbar system to something of a PIA. The GS6 is in the "back shop" getting a complete tear down and mods because it's driver springs are WAY to stiff for even the smallest undulations in the track. It teeter's on the front and rear drivers and since it is heavy and the tender is a sled it will not even pull 5 freight cars around the layout. I'm not a rivet counter, but I do like it if they are close. I sent back a BLI cab forward and sold a few other BLI's just because I didn't rank them as high as I thought they should be.
My rankings are these:
1st - running (It has to run like a swiss watch or I will not use it, and therefore it's wasted money.)
2nd - strength (Generally 5-6 cars per driven axle or more with a few small exceptions. I.E. my Mikado should not be expected to pull the same train as my GS6. Although, the GS6 sucks)
3rd - wow factor (I admit, I like it when I can sit back and watch it pulling a string of cars and grin ear to ear. It's also great at open house when people come up to you and compliment the train you are running. 100 cars lugging behind a big boy with sound and smoke pouring out of the stack is really neat to the kido's and even the 10 year old in me.)
4th - looks vs price point (My EM-1 was not so detailed, but it was 1/2 the price of BLI or MTH and that made it O.K. It ran better than expected since I don't hold Bachmann in high regard and with a few small mods to the drive train it actually ran really, really well.)

What particular models are you looking at? Maybe someone has first hand experience with them.
 
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Does MTH sell any DCC ready engines? because I will only install my own decoder. Their N&W powatan arrow passenger train actually looks good, BUT I will not buy MTH engines. I was demoed the Little Joe at a hobbyshop, and I went and bought 2 brass versions (already owned one) The Little Joe had diesel sounds, a real "Joe" is very quiet running till you toot the horn.
 
Does MTH sell any DCC ready engines? because I will only install my own decoder. Their N&W powatan arrow passenger train actually looks good, BUT I will not buy MTH engines. I was demoed the Little Joe at a hobbyshop, and I went and bought 2 brass versions (already owned one) The Little Joe had diesel sounds, a real "Joe" is very quiet running till you toot the horn.

Non of their steam comes dcc ready. You have to buy one and remove all of their junk. Be warned, their wiring and lighting circuits are goofy. I recall them using a positive ground. Anyways, I am not familiar with the little joe's. But knowing mth it does not surprise me that they oversell the sound on them. After all, they make toys first and them they try to make scale models. I know I sound like I am on both sides of the fence but I am very particular when I do buy an MTH steam engine just because of all of the above. I am actually done until they change the drawbars back to the older style.
 
BLI had a serious problem with quality between 2008 and 2011. BAAAADD. Lately, MTH has had its share of problems, notably with the last production run of the former BLI Big Boy. MTH was awarded the tooling in a law suit with the HO factory that BLI used, but the manufacturer actually owned the tooling, and BLI could do nothing but wave it all good-bye. Over time, both importers have had their problems and both make nice locomotives and rolling stock. As mentioned just above, the real problem with MTH is that at first they would only offer HO scale motive power with their own operating system, and that system didn't play nicely with everyone else's DCC systems. Only after several years and pleas from many would-be fans did MTH relent and begin to offer DC-only versions of their locomotives so that their new owners could install their own DCC decoders. At the same time, they altered the firmware in their systems so that DCC and DCS would be more interoperable.

BLI had low production in the last three years while they were at court being sued by MTH for the synchronized chuff mechanism that BLI used. MTH claimed it infringed on their copyright. The courts found otherwise, and I think that freed up both emotion and money for BLI, who then commenced a production frenzy. They have been red hot since mid-2012. I am pleased that, after innumerable delays, at least 10, BLI is going to produce the Union Pacific 9000 which, unlike MTH's goofy example, will not have a Y6b's articulated front. Not only that, but Factory Direct Trains tells me they'll honour the same price quoted in 2009 when they first announced its production.
 
...Only after several years and pleas from many would-be fans did MTH relent and begin to offer DC-only versions of their locomotives so that their new owners could install their own DCC decoders....

Crandell,

To show you just how much I really follow mth, other than the SD-70...(insert correct designation here), what other locos do they offer DC?
 
Crandell,

To show you just how much I really follow mth, other than the SD-70...(insert correct designation here), what other locos do they offer DC?
i know they do the GP35 and F3 in DCC ready. I think I saw the dash 9 and GEVO are also offered sans decoder and sound. BLI seems to be going the other way, and now only offers their stuff with sound. And since I have had nothing but problems with their decoders, I am holding off on any new purchases from them for the foreseeable future.
 
Thank you everyone for the frank discussion! I've decided on the BLI locomotive, with my fingers crossed. It just sounds like a lot of compatibility issues with the MTH stuff. Also, it kind of ticked me off when I went on their website and they are still advertising engines that came out in 2009 as being the latest release. When I called them, they were really rude and that turned me off.

Jeff
 
I've had several MTH loco's and they were all good quality and very detailed. Most who use dcc don't even use the cv values missing on them but complain because they aren't there.
The sound is also top notch.
As to offering the same loco's and calling them new, They ARE new. That's one of the things I like about them.
With other manufacturers if you don't get a particular loco when they release it you're out of luck.
 
Good choice

I have 2 BLI locomotives, one steam and one diesel, and am happy with both of them. I don't have any MTH stuff at all due to what I have read about them on here.

I don't know a great deal about engines, in terms of their accuracy or detail so that takes second place to value for money and service. Your experience with MTH would be all it would take for me not to deal with them, regardless of how good, realistic etc their product was. Let's be honest, and as one person mentioned, unless you are going to "show case" a loco (or anything) the majority of people couldn't tell if an engine was prototype accurate or not when it was running around a layout.

With respect to the perceived DCC compatibility problem - most people are creatures of habit and will buy what is "common". Whether DCC is the best system or not, it is the most common, most adaptable, compatible and readily available. The apparent fact that MTH uses a different system would be another reason for me not to buy their product.

Personally, I think you made the best decision going with BLI.
 
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Carey, much like yourself, I don't follow MTH at all. I do know they have the ACE variety, but no M's, and I otherwise have no idea what other diesels. I think they have an ALCO PA, or maybe it's an FA...not sure. Switchers? Dunno.
 
Thank you everyone for the frank discussion! I've decided on the BLI locomotive, with my fingers crossed. It just sounds like a lot of compatibility issues with the MTH stuff. Also, it kind of ticked me off when I went on their website and they are still advertising engines that came out in 2009 as being the latest release. When I called them, they were really rude and that turned me off.

Jeff

For more than a few of us, that's what we generally have come to feel that MTH does since joining the HO scale world. I questioned their UP 4-12-2 being articulated at the front when theirs was announced in early 2009 or so, and I can't recall his exact words, but it ran something like, "That's the way we feel it should be marketed so that a wide range of users can enjoy it on their curves." It's not an irrational decision by any means, but it speaks to their stand-off and take-it-or-leave-it attitude that leaves some of us feeling undervalued for our interests in something less toy-like. To them, the market is about toys. To BLI and the other mainstream HO suppliers, it's meant to be a best-for-the-dollar approximation in scale.
 
A valuable conversation and one I really appreciate. Just as a side note to the one post about their locomotives being new, the locomotives they have on their web page were new in 2009. They are no longer available and haven't been available for years. You would think they would update the webpage at some point. I sent a local hobby shop operator on a wild goose chase until I figured out the dates involved (and he confirmed it with MTH directly). I'm not experienced enough to be dealing with incompatibility issues with DCC, and I sure didn't like being "slapped down" for asking MTH a simple question, so BLI seemed to be the wise choice for me.

Thanks again for the input everybody!

Jeff
 
G'day Jeff...Can't speak about steam so much but...........MTH v BLI in quality.....I can...... The weight and tractive effort of MTH is great with their SD70s but in regard to detail and sound I think BLI , Imtermoumtain , Athearn Genesis and Kato are all better for sure...And in DCC programming , MTH can literally be a nightmare...I'd choose BLI if it was between them and MTH based on the diesel electric models at least...Cheers Rod
 
Thanks for the input everyone! Time and time again, I have come to this forum to get the opinions and guidance of the folks on here who know SO much more about model railroading than I do. I have never been disappointed!

Jeff
 
G'day Jeff.....I just re read the topic ...glad you bought the BLI's but even with MTH , there's some good things...just that easy programming does seem to be a bit hit and miss.. Just a tip on BLI.... IF you have any sound going haywire any time...unlikely but possible...most BLI locos have a factory re set button facility inside the shell..A good friend bought an SD40-2.. and the sound began going out of sync one day..In the manual he found reference to the re set..he did what it said ...all fixed...runs perfectly ever since and is a favourite with him...I have two same SD40-2s...no issues at all with either of them...Another brand that is gaining popularity is Intermountain..I have a couple of their ES44ACs..nice locos...and a little cheaper than most of the higher end manufacturers..I think... Cheers Rod...
 
I will say my MTH ho 3985 has ur real crawl ability if the throttle is left cracked
open to the track
it will chuff & move slightly before I know it its off the end of the track
 



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