Coffee Shop Part IV
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RANT ON!!!!
This was quoted off of GMA by Sam Champion, their meterologist, as supposedly being said by the school principal. I was just reading the NWS synposis of the storm warnings sent out, and this particular storm was first warned of at 12:10pm. a second warning went out at 12:41 and a third at 12:47pm. The city of Enterprise was stated as being in the path, in each warning specifically!
Result was, there was warning of this tornado at least 1 hour before it hit!!!!!
I'm sorry, but after having been thru an F5, and 2 F3's in my life, I can't understand how, when a warning like this is announced, someone in a position of authority can claim of no warning!
Sorry, Rant off!
Yall have a good day......
CJ, absolutely agreed! Somewhere along the line something broke down and the proper procedures were not evidently followed. Where along that line is what's in question I think.
Rex, The level of warning used in Alabama was something I was not aware of. I have also been "out of the loop" for seven years in schools in NYS so I don't know the current requirements here either. I was in charge of a Boy Scout Camp here in the Finger Lakes a couple a years ago and know what our Procedures Manual calls for. (We also kept the weather radio on 24 hours a day.....) Again where along the chain of notification was there a glitch if the principle only had 10 minutes warning???? Or maybe he had warning and ignored it until it was too late. Somebody's butt will get shot off for this whole thing you can bet (and needs to be!).
I am sure there will be a full fact finding inquiry into this (hopefully not a witch hunt). I can rememeber an incident at camp the year before I was Camp Director and I was Commissioner. A dangerous thunderstorm came through the area (actually missed the camp). Twenty minutes before we got a phone call from the health dept. the ranger had come down to the office with the warning. By the time the Health Dept. called the entire camp was already moved into the dining hall (the listed building in the manual) and was being entertained by staff. After the storm blew through and the all clear was sounded. I had just gotten back to the office when the county health officer called (10 minutes later) to ask "exactly what was done in camp during this emergency". She also wanted the report mailed to her within 24 hours...... Oh yeh! Heads will roll on this one!
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OldGettysk
Running the MC & Buffalo
Boy Ken thats a lot of money to loose. You guys in Bama just saw the news , such a tragedy at the High School in Enterprise, Hope you rfamilies are all Ok , My prayers to the families who lost children and the many others who where injured !
Paul, KenL, and everyone, it has been a rough weather day in Alabama and it couldn't be any worse than the tragedy at Enterprise (southeast Alabama)with 13 killed in the storm (8 at the high school-some students). We went under at least 4 tornado warnings in Tuscaloosa, but we were fortunate in that none came to the ground. If there hadn't been a strong and low southerly wind blocking some of the updraft to the circulation, it could have been a very bad situation here.
Paul: Best take a survival kit with you, if you go outside .
NZKEN: I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you to close the deal. I know that you want to get back to a normal life (railroading, of course
).
Larry: Is the shoulder a little better?
Paul: Best take a survival kit with you, if you go outside
.NZKEN: I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you to close the deal. I know that you want to get back to a normal life (railroading, of course
).Larry: Is the shoulder a little better?
leghome
Maytag "Danged Agitator"
Rex the shoulder is better. I quit taking the pain medicine about 1pm today. I may take a couple of them there good drug so I can sleep tonight. I started therapy today also and I think that is going to be very painful at first. The shoulder is somewhat sore from that and I did not do the full regimen they want me to do. Real therapy will start Tues so I am going to work it quite a bit between now and then but just the easy stuff. No lifting of the arm for another 5 weeks, juszt use the other arm to lift the repaired one.
Bill Tidler Jr.
Retired N&W/NS Signalman
Bill Tidler Jr.
Retired N&W/NS Signalman
Good evening! from Indiana.
03-01-07
03-01-07
Bill Tidler Jr.
Retired N&W/NS Signalman
Good morning ! from Indiana.
03-02-07
03-02-07
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
Rex, glad to hear T-town survived the tornado terror - but an awful situation for the families of those dead high school kids (I thought schools were supposed to be one of the safest places to be in bad weather?)
NZKen - Hope the sale happens as planned.
Not much happening here in MD this morning, just soggy and foggy...
NZKen - Hope the sale happens as planned.
Not much happening here in MD this morning, just soggy and foggy...
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
Morning Gents.
Nothing like SouthEast. Had a warm heavy rain last night that melted all the snow. Had flash flood warnings, but have no clue if there was damage.
Nothing like SouthEast. Had a warm heavy rain last night that melted all the snow. Had flash flood warnings, but have no clue if there was damage.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Mornin' ya'll!
We survived the storms here yesterday and last night.
Its now confirmed that there are 8 dead in Enterprise, all students. Good Morning America has had some reporters there talking about the damage and the deaths. So Sad
According to news sources they only had less than a 10 minute warning.
We survived the storms here yesterday and last night.
Its now confirmed that there are 8 dead in Enterprise, all students. Good Morning America has had some reporters there talking about the damage and the deaths. So SadAccording to news sources they only had less than a 10 minute warning.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
RANT ON!!!!
This was quoted off of GMA by Sam Champion, their meterologist, as supposedly being said by the school principal. I was just reading the NWS synposis of the storm warnings sent out, and this particular storm was first warned of at 12:10pm. a second warning went out at 12:41 and a third at 12:47pm. The city of Enterprise was stated as being in the path, in each warning specifically!
Result was, there was warning of this tornado at least 1 hour before it hit!!!!!I'm sorry, but after having been thru an F5, and 2 F3's in my life, I can't understand how, when a warning like this is announced, someone in a position of authority can claim of no warning!
Sorry, Rant off!
Yall have a good day......
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rhoward
S.L.O.&W. Trainman
Mornin' Bill! Glad to see you got here early today.....
Mornin all! My heart goes out to the families of the students caught in the tornado yesterday. Very, very sad when these things happen.
Carey, Even if the warning was posted by the weather service long before the storm hit that does not mean that the school was notified like they are supposed to be. For emergency situations dealing with weather schools are usually to be notified (around here it is the Highway Superintendent) by some city, town, county, or other agency of the danger and are told the course of action that is to be taken. The same is true of Camps. The emergency manual is about 200 pages long for two different camps that I have worked in. There are procedures for just about everything. At camp, it is the responsibility of the County Health Dept. to contact the camp and start the procedures rolling (I have been the one to take the call many times!) Believe it or not, a warning on television is of no real value to a school as nobody there is likely to be watching the idiot box......... It sounds like the system broke down somewhere and a phone call that should have been made didn't happen. I bet someones @$$ will be in a sling for this.
Mornin all! My heart goes out to the families of the students caught in the tornado yesterday. Very, very sad when these things happen.
Carey, Even if the warning was posted by the weather service long before the storm hit that does not mean that the school was notified like they are supposed to be. For emergency situations dealing with weather schools are usually to be notified (around here it is the Highway Superintendent) by some city, town, county, or other agency of the danger and are told the course of action that is to be taken. The same is true of Camps. The emergency manual is about 200 pages long for two different camps that I have worked in. There are procedures for just about everything. At camp, it is the responsibility of the County Health Dept. to contact the camp and start the procedures rolling (I have been the one to take the call many times!) Believe it or not, a warning on television is of no real value to a school as nobody there is likely to be watching the idiot box......... It sounds like the system broke down somewhere and a phone call that should have been made didn't happen. I bet someones @$$ will be in a sling for this.
OldGettysk
Running the MC & Buffalo
Hi All ! Very sad tragedy in Enterprise no matter who or what is responsible. now there is nothing left but sad families who have to go on! May God give them the strenght to do so ! Peace to all !!!!
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Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Ray;
The point is someone didn't follow up. The NWS issues the warnings, which in turn goes to all the County EMA's, Law Enforcement and county and city governments, local radio & TV stations in their CWA, via fax, IM, phone, and NOAA Radio Alarms! A simple inexpensive weather radio, with the NOAA alarm on it could have possibly saved some lives.
I don't mean to keep ranting about it but this is a personal sore spot with me.
The point is someone didn't follow up. The NWS issues the warnings, which in turn goes to all the County EMA's, Law Enforcement and county and city governments, local radio & TV stations in their CWA, via fax, IM, phone, and NOAA Radio Alarms! A simple inexpensive weather radio, with the NOAA alarm on it could have possibly saved some lives.
I don't mean to keep ranting about it but this is a personal sore spot with me.
Ray, in Alabama, each school is equipped with a weather warning device. When a tornado warning is activated by NWS or the Emergency Management Office (control the sirens and school warning devices via radio signal) for that school's area, immediate emergency response is required. It does not require any external authorization to initiate, only the Principle or in-charge. When the sirens went off or the radio alarm, action should have been taken immediately. FYI:Tornado drills are required just as fire drills.
KenL: Other than an approved storm shelter, there are not many places safe in a direct hit from an F4 or F5 tornado. I have seen brick homes and churches, court houses, and even a mostly concrete building demolished from them. One thing of note: I was talking to a construction foreman awhile back, and he told me of a high school that had a near miss during the night. He said that the hallway where students would normally go had broken glass from the outer doors stuck in the walls the entire length. Scary,huh!
KenL: Other than an approved storm shelter, there are not many places safe in a direct hit from an F4 or F5 tornado. I have seen brick homes and churches, court houses, and even a mostly concrete building demolished from them. One thing of note: I was talking to a construction foreman awhile back, and he told me of a high school that had a near miss during the night. He said that the hallway where students would normally go had broken glass from the outer doors stuck in the walls the entire length. Scary,huh!
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rhoward
S.L.O.&W. Trainman
CJ, absolutely agreed! Somewhere along the line something broke down and the proper procedures were not evidently followed. Where along that line is what's in question I think.
Rex, The level of warning used in Alabama was something I was not aware of. I have also been "out of the loop" for seven years in schools in NYS so I don't know the current requirements here either. I was in charge of a Boy Scout Camp here in the Finger Lakes a couple a years ago and know what our Procedures Manual calls for. (We also kept the weather radio on 24 hours a day.....) Again where along the chain of notification was there a glitch if the principle only had 10 minutes warning???? Or maybe he had warning and ignored it until it was too late. Somebody's butt will get shot off for this whole thing you can bet (and needs to be!).
I am sure there will be a full fact finding inquiry into this (hopefully not a witch hunt). I can rememeber an incident at camp the year before I was Camp Director and I was Commissioner. A dangerous thunderstorm came through the area (actually missed the camp). Twenty minutes before we got a phone call from the health dept. the ranger had come down to the office with the warning. By the time the Health Dept. called the entire camp was already moved into the dining hall (the listed building in the manual) and was being entertained by staff. After the storm blew through and the all clear was sounded. I had just gotten back to the office when the county health officer called (10 minutes later) to ask "exactly what was done in camp during this emergency". She also wanted the report mailed to her within 24 hours...... Oh yeh! Heads will roll on this one!
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Ray, now they are saying the students were in the hallway for almost an hour. The accounts will vary each day as the buck is passed, but the fact is pretty evident that the students were in the halls as the emergency procedure requires. Now, and of course, arguments arise about rather they should have been released from school to go home. Personally, I believe that it would be a huge mistake having kids roaming around or in school buses during a warning of any kind, not to mention the danger to the parents picking them up. In most cases, the school building is relatively the safest place to be.
To close the schools for only the possibility of bad weather, would totally disrupt the schedules, particularly in the Spring. Still, many systems will close if the threat is severe. All of the schools in T-town area released early in the day by the Supt. of schools, but I believe a lot of that had to do with the Enterprise tragedy.
To close the schools for only the possibility of bad weather, would totally disrupt the schedules, particularly in the Spring. Still, many systems will close if the threat is severe. All of the schools in T-town area released early in the day by the Supt. of schools, but I believe a lot of that had to do with the Enterprise tragedy.
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