Which DCC system?

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Dragon Breath

Livin' It Up
Hello, I'm new to the forum and to model trains. Except when I was about 3-5 years old my dad had a 'lil one. I'm starting to accumulate parts and pieces to start a layout. I know that everybody has a different opinion on this, but what is the best DCC system? I'm wanting it to be sort of unlimited on how many locomotives I can run at once. Also for a layout of approx. 20'x30' do I have to have auxiliary power units, to power the tracks? I'm sure this is rather an evident answer but I really couldn't find it anywhere else. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
 
Gosh, that's a tall order unless funds are not going to be a problem.

First, you need the engines with decoders, or decoders to add to engines that don't currently have them installed. You can get good prices on bulk deals of Digitrax decoders, as an example, but if you can't install your own, you can expect to pay between $20-40 per unit, depending on the work that has to be done to get the decoders inside the shells, and who is doing the work.

However, to get closer to answering your question, the systems generally handle more engines than two or three people can operate safely. You will need a fully computerized operating system to run more than three engines at a time in the vast majority of cases. That means even more decoder to operate the turnouts for routing all these moving trains.

The big issue is the amperage that you will need to meet the demands of each decoder and its slaved devices, be they lights, motors, or other devices such as turnouts and other stationary decoders....and we shouldn't forget any signalling and detection circuitry, plus and power reversing requirements if you have any reversing sections of track (loops or wye's, turntables that are not automatically reversing, etc.).

Then, if you want some sound systems on board the odd engine, or all of them, now you are getting into some serious power demand.

Count on approximately 0.5 amps for each working engine with a sound system activated. This is only a rough figure for computing your nominal power requirements. Some engines will draw a bit more, older stuff you get off ebay may require up to 0.7 amps. Many newer engines with sound systems draw as little as 0.3 amps when working fairly hard dragging cars up grades.

For safety, in order to keep the voltage at nominal values throughout the track plan, a system of a bus, boosters, power districts, and sets of feeder wires directly attached to the rails, will require some detailed planning, particularly for short management. Shorts with decoders are not a good thing, so all DCC systems are good at detecting shorts. They get inefficient as the voltage drops and the resultant signal to noise ratio drops. Eventually, at the far reaches of poorly power planned layouts, they won't recognize a short and the wires will glow in the dark. At the same time, your decoders will begin to let the magic smoke out of them. :rolleyes: The smoke cannot be contained and readministered. It's a one way deal.

So, now we have introduced the requirement for a lot of wire, connectors, and now boosters and more power supplies to keep the signal high throughout the trackplan.

Does that help to give you an idea of your challenges?
 
I'm in agreement with Selector here. To put the whole thing in perspective, figure you're going to spend between $50-100 per square foot--and a lot more if you start buying stuff without having a plan. You will also spend about 50 hrs/sqft building it.

As for the DCC go with MRC, NCE or Digitrax. Start with a smaller expandible unit like the Digitrax Zephyr and add as you need it.

You have a lot of space, but perhaps it would be more prudent to start with a smaller section and learn what you like about the hobby before you commit your time and money resources to the end-all layout.

Start with my beginner's guide clickable from my signature. It will give you some things to think about.
 


Thanks alot for all the info. The only reason I want the DCC system to run an unlimited # of locomotives is I want all the locomotives on the layout and readily accessible. I'm probably only going to be running 2 and no more at a time. But I want to have around 10 or 15 in round houses or stations as I'm running the others. SpaceMouse, your link was very useful and made alot of sense that I didn't even take in consideration or think about. I've been told that the MRC prodigy is what I need and I just wanted a second opinion. But all the other info is what I needed to know as well. On drawing the layout and posting it I'll try to get to that shortly.
 
Dragon Breath - if you look at MRC Prodigy, you do not want anything less than the Prodigy Advance^Squared.

That's their newest rig and you can take it to wireless easily.

As for additional power boosters, that's dependent on how many locomotives you plan on running, and how many Amps the boosters will push. Each locomotive pulls a certain amount of amperage, with sound locos taking an awful lot.

I recommend designing your layout so that it can be broken up into several different power blocks, all electrically isolated, and as you need to, you can add boosters and simply unwire a few blocks from the old booster and wire them up to the new one.

Do not fall for using really big boosters - 8amps will fry decoders in a short, as well as possibly working as an inefficient arc welder across one too! 5amps per booster is really all you ought to have.
 
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Copper wire bus

I run 16 engines on two decks with out a booster. Although I do have a 18 gauge solid copper wire bus running under all the tracks. A whole lot less resistance than nickel silver.
 
Do not fall for using really big boosters - 8amps will fry decoders in a short, as well as possibly working as an inefficient arc welder across one too! 5amps per booster is really all you ought to have.
Hi Jeff, now that is interesting to me. I was sort of (future) planning for an 8 amp maybe 2 as all my locos (close to all) are Athearn Blue box powered. Without a doubt a double header will be a major draw of current so main line draw will have 4 locos drawing power. So a couple of 5 amp boosters or maybe 3 amp boosters would be the better way to go.

Cheers Willis
 
NYC George, what size is your layout? And (I'm not questioning your intelligence) wouldn't stranded wire be better since it carries more amperage? If the DCC system states that it can handle 4 engines at once; Does that mean that you can have several engines on your layout with different addresses but only run up to 4. If so that is exactly what I'm looking for.
 
Well, when it comes to figuring out amps and all that, according to numbers I cribbed from Joe Fugate (http://siskiyou-railfan.net) your standard DCC equipped locomotive pulls .2 amps, a Soundtraxx loco pulls .4 and a QSI pulls about .6 - that's HO diesel.

So you'll want to plan accordingly.
 
4 engines trains

Hi DB Stranded wire is fine. Solid wire is much easier to work with. It's easier to hook up to a terminal block or to use with wire nuts. My layout is 24 X 30 with two decks. If you wire it correctly the power will not need to be pushed through all the tracks at the same time. Basically only were the engines are drawing current. Because I have a 3% grade helix and run 30 to 40 car trains I need at least 3 to 4 engines per train. Our model RR club meets at my house and when their here, I never actually counted, but I would say 16 engines are all drawing power at once. When I change over to computer control I may have to add a booster because every block will then have at least one separate wire running to the block and then back to the control station. I figure 30 blocks or more, lots of wire. I posted this video about a mouth ago. It has 9 engines running at once that's all I can run by my self.

Windows

http://mysite.verizon.net/swal/jvtrains_1.htm

Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsXBHWJsbzg

NYC_George
 






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