What has happened to the hobby?

[AFormerModeler]

I left the hobby about ten years, and granted a lot can and will happen in that much time. But what is going on and why?

I modeled the Union Pacific Railroad and had puchased a large number of brass and plastic engines following the UP including an Oriental 4-12-2, Overland C-855 ABA units, Overland single-unit turbine, etc. I also had a larger number of Overland's frieght cars. A huge number of unbuilt kits by Athearn, Front Range and McKean center beam flat cars, Roundhouse, Model Diecasting metal boxcars, etc., with about 150 to 200 Central Valley trucks and brass and plastic detailing parts. A full complement of tools included a Unimat SL and two Binks Wren Type B airbrushes, one for non-metallic colors and the other for metallic colors only, run off of a Sears air compressor/tank.

And then I lost interest due to a variety of reasons including changing goals, club politics, lack of space for a bench, etc. It was while working on the scenery at the club I was once a member of, the former Peninsula Model Railroad Club or Society, that I said, "This isn't any fun." Sold everything over the space of two years.

I started thinking about getting and visited The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA. to see what was there. (The thought and expense of accumulating what I once had will be staggering assuming that I can even find half that stuff.)

But it also looks like the state of HO is going away from kits to RTR. Bought an Athearn box car just to look at it and the entire model is glued together, making kitbashing/modification difficult. Athearn kits at one time could be easily modified. There are still kits out there, but I'm told that they may disappear from the market eventually due to lack of sales. In fact, looking on the shelves, the Kadee log car kits had a thick layer of dust on the boxes indicating a lack of interest.

Nothing lasts forever especially the collective business plans/operations of ten+ years ago, and the hobby must change to survive and thrive. I'm echoing the same statements that I heard decades ago when cast metal kits gave way to plastic kits, when steam modeling gave way to diesel modeling, when craftsman kits gave way to shake-the-box kits, etc., when our club set out to build a new layout, when large mountains were introduced in place of low rolling hills making the club layout "difficult to see" all at once, etc. I sound old and quaint and I admit that.

Just my observation and opinion.

AFormermModeler

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I'm an older modeler and have been in the hobby for 40+ years. I used to build almost everything from kits and once in a while scratch-build a structure or two. Back about 5 to 7 years ago RTR began becoming more prevalent. As more and more RTR models become available people who usually don't build kits found them more appealing. This is something they don't have to put together. As for myself it's difficult for me to build kits with small parts due to my arthritis and nerve damage so I opt for RTR whenever I can. Most of what I buy is Bachmann Silver Series and Athearn RTR. Once in a while I come across an Atlas or Walther's model I just have to have. As far as locos go I usually get Athearn RTR or Proto 2000 though I do have a number of Athearn blue box locos. I still hard wire my DCC decoders though as I've found some factory soldering jobs to be less than satisfactory. Most of the pre-assembled cars I get can be easily opened by carefully the glued places with Dremel. After that I can add weight and make whatever changes I need to before putting it back together. What happening to the hobby? Just more changes and us old kit builders are being left behind.

 

[UP2CSX]

Yes, indeed, the trend to RTR is well established. Modelers are demanding more and more detailed motive power, rolling stock, and structures. Some of us who have been in the hobby a long time may be able to reproduce that kind of detail from kits, kitbashing, and scratchbuilding, but a lot of folks just don't have the time or skills to do so. I suspect the switch to manufacturing in China is a large part of this. There's no way Athearn could produce any of the locomotives currently available at a reasonable price if they were made here. For a lot of people, thier time is worth more than any enjoyment they get from kit building, even if they have the skill or desire.

Take a look at the Woodland Scenics line of structures. Most of them sell for around $50, which sounds like a lot until you consider the tools, adhesives, paint, and detail parts you'd need to build them from a kit. The quality of contruction and level of detail is superb. Many are like you, who used to be in the hobby but sold off most of their tools. Would you rather buy them all back or buy a ready made WS structure? For many people, the availability of the RTR items is drawing them back into the hobby rather than pushing them away.

Yes, the Athearn BB kits are coming to the end of the road in terms of new production. OTOH, they were produced in their millions and will be around for generations. Just check e-bay and see how many BB engines and cars are for sale. I think we are in the best of both worlds right now. If you want to scratchbuild or kitbash, there are still plenty of opportunities, many at prices less than you would have paid ten years ago. If you just want to buy things already made and get a layout up and running, that option is also available. After over 40 years in the hobby, I think we really are in the best of times now in terms of model railroading remaining a viable force in the hobby world.

 

[lmackattack]

went to my local hobby store last week and there were 20 blue box kits on the shelf next to the 200 RTR kits.. all this means is that it will cost 2x more to buy a freight car..
I think $5-$7 per car was great.. now they cost $14-20$ minimum per car.. no thanks!

 

[kenw]

I think the hobby has changed in that folks just aren’t willing to put up with a toilet paper tube disguised as a propane storage tank, nor a bunch sawed off round oatmeal boxes for a tankfarm. The wide body Athearns that crowd my layout are frowned upon by even the most forgiving hobbyists today since better alternatives are readily available. Folks have gotten a bit more sophisticated and just expect more, whether as a builder or a viewer of said stuff. No longer is it required that to be a sucessful model railroader you must also be a Jr McGiver, able to hand carve a rare locomotive from a bar of soap or fashion a signal system from old a/c relays. What’s neat about the hobby continues to be that regardless of your niche, the rest of the stuff is available to give an overall satisfactory representation to the level to which you need.

Yet, my layout is my layout, and that toilet paper propane tank is doing just fine for me in my little world. When the price/ performance threshold reaches MY sweetspot, I’ll replace it. Until then, it’ll do. As will the plain old variable DC power.

Trent, are you saying YOU haven't had a raise in 20 years? You're paying more for gas, and that car, too; why can't the folks that make those kits get a raise like you?

 

[Selector]

The customer base (AKA 'the market') has changed. Successful businesses follow the dough. When the dough begins to dry up here, you scout around and find out where more of it is flowing. The younger blood meant for the hobby, the really new folks (and not those somewhat seasoned by Dad's old layout and ideas) are used to shopping for stuff on shelves that requires scissors to cut into blister pack, insert batteries, and play away. Trains now have to compete against virtual reality-like games with intense graphics and sounds.

The manufacturers have come and gone in some cases, and in the comers have also arrived some new ideas. Broadway Limited got sound into steam in the first big way. People began to do serious imagery of refined modelling based on improved ideas spread by the internet. With a desire to improve imagery, especially the realism, the models themselves had to improve in appearance. RP-25 wheels became the standard, and Proto 87 is probably going to supplant a lot of that older standard in the next few years when more people show off models in imagery with highly realistic details...such as tire profiles, flanges, and turnouts.

Also, people who earn $75-200K a year are plentiful. After they get a motor home, a pool, and a snowmobile, they look for some other diversion. It may be RC, trains, fancy internet gaming....but they want easy diversion, and they like to be able to wow their friends with the 'best and fanciest'.

DCC has come into its own in just the past maybe four or five years. Forums such as this are often replete with questions from people, not just newbies, who want a DCC question answered. Somehow, to those more than a few months in the hobby, pizza cutter flanges and poor molded details on boilers just don't seem to jive with 'digital'.

In a nutshell, it is a confluence of forces that began when the first RTR Christmas card and tree decorations came on the market...no more stinging popcorn.

(To that last, some of you are more like . Understood. It that was what made Christmas, or your hobby, change away from that is going to be hard on you.)

-Crandell

 

[Dsquared_sleeperMSP]

At my age (26), and having such a wide range of hobbies/interests (cars, guns/shooting, the football and hockey leagues I play on, etc.), I almost feel like the oddball out. Most of my friends and coworkers come over and take a moment to look at everything I have built and collected, but that's typically as far as it gets.

 

[UP2CSX]

I think Crandell hit it right on the nose. Not only have we all come to expect a higher level of detail but many "not old timers" want that level of detail off the shelf. I know we have younger members who are kitbashing but even they are using engines and cars of much higher quality then we had 40 years ago. We now have the option of everything from a pewter kit to an engine correct in every important detail. One needs a lot of skill and meticulous attention to detail to look good. The other need to only have the box opened and the engine placed on the track. In between, there's a wide range of people who still detail and kitbash and those that might put a little weathering on the trucks and cal it good. None of this is good or bad, it's just how it is. I'm happy to see we have so many younger members here, many of whom are doing some pretty neat detailing and kitbashing. I suspect the higher quality of engines and rolling stock, plus DCC, has bought many of them to the hobby. I can remember a few short years ago when I was considered a "newbie" since I had only been modeling for 30 years. I've seen work by people in thier teens and 20's that far exceed the quality of a lot of work I've done, even though my "newbie" days have passed. Maybe that's what it comes down to - the "newbie" period lasts a lot shorter time for those with a real interest in the hobby.

 

[nephthyr]

I definitely mourn the loss of rolling stock kits such as the blue box athearns. I think some of the most fun I've had has been assembling some box cars from athearn and some hoppers from accurail. Having said that, I must admit RTR is very appealing, especially if I compare the level of detail on the newer RTR models. But I still miss the fun of building the kits.

I certainly think RTR and kits should be able to peacefully coexist on the shelf, if it were me in the shop and I could choose the same box car with the same level of detail offered in both RTR and kit form I'd go home with the kit!

None the less, the hobby has definitely changed face over the last couple of years. I think its heading in the right direction overall, obviously there will be casualties along the way but they make way for other more exciting things. We live in exciting times!

 

[stationmaster]

My first recollection of train modelling was at age 5-6. Dad had a layout in a spare bedroom, the largest bedroom I might add. Not much more than a multi-track round and round with a few structures. The club we went to was quite a bit more extravagant, situated in an old C&O depot, long since gone.

We have become an instant gratification society. We want it now. We do not wish to wait for the glue to dry, or paint for that matter. I have salt boxes subbing as a tank farm, carpet cores as the "ceiling" of some of my tunnels, Natural materials(dirt, weeds for tree armatures, ect) as scenic materials. Besides, if everything were done for me it wouldn't be as rewarding, at least in my eyes and heart.

Lately, I have been on eBay buying nothing but decals and detail parts. All of my F and E units are highly detailed. Those that aren't are awaiting my hand to take the time to get them done. Same for my cabooses, and other cars and engines. I am by no means a rivet counter but adding a few details just makes the cars and engines look better.

I hate to think that Athearn BB, Accurail, or Bowser kit cars will go away. In reading some of the prior posts in this thread, I went to the cabinet to look at some of the boxes. Many will not remember paying $2.95 for an Athearn box car. And many of my cars were priced $3.75. Those days are probably long gone. lol

I have to say, that the biggest innovation to model railroading is DCC. While the quality of items has surely improved, DCC is by far and away the biggest deal to happen in the 50 years I have been associated with the hobby.

The craftsman, in the hobby, will soon go the way of the steam engine. No more than a conversation piece. We stand in awe of an old steam engine chuffing, filling the air with smoke and vapor, along the twin steel ribbons today. The craftsman may soon be a legacy, just like that old steamer.

Bob

 

[+Eric]

At my age (26), and having such a wide range of hobbies/interests (cars, guns/shooting, the football and hockey leagues I play on, etc.), I almost feel like the oddball out. Most of my friends and coworkers come over and take a moment to look at everything I have built and collected, but that's typically as far as it gets.

I'm in the same boat, I'm 28, and I feel like I have a LOT of "hobbies" and don't have time to devote so much attention to the layout my dad and I started this past winter. I'm into cars, model trains, guns/shooting, computers/electronics, and of all things I like to ride roller coasters. I travel around quite a bit in the summer with my friend, to goto different parks.

Most of my hobbies are summertime hobbies, so I have more time in the winter, but I'm just not all that interested in building kits. I actually have built an accurail kit I believe and there were pieces so small it was very frustrating. I work six days a week, and really, just want to buy something and put in on my layout and run. I got into it after finding out about dcc, mainly after my grandfather got DCC for his layout. I had always wanted to build one, but my absolute love for electronics, meant DCC sealed the deal for me.

Not to mention, with the high quality/detail engine and cars you can buy now, I'd much rather spend time on the layout itself, than building the cars. We've been buying nicer cars and leaving the cheaper stuff sit on the shelf at our LHS.

I think the end result is that you've got people who get excited about different aspects of the hobby. DCC and the highly detailed cars/engines like the genesis line or exact rail or any of the other high detail products, are what I really like. The fact that's it's getting more and more accessible, and easier to having nice looking things even if you're not an artist, is going to help out a lot. If you can cater to a wide variety of tastes/interests with a hobby, it'll be much more successful, and I think model railroading is good at that.

 

[NYW&B]

The craftsman, in the hobby, will soon go the way of the steam engine. No more than a conversation piece. We stand in awe of an old steam engine chuffing, filling the air with smoke and vapor, along the twin steel ribbons today. The craftsman may soon be a legacy, just like that old steamer.

Bob

Probably a fact...but then so will the true nature of our hobby fade away, thereafter to be nothing more than collecting and playing with model trains. Model railroading originated as and continued up through the early 1990's to be, a craftsman's hobby. The hobby hasn't changed over the years, only the sort of participants it has drawn in of late.

Although it may be distasteful to hear, the "inconvenient truth" is that increasingly our hobby is becoming one of people with dwindling actual modeling skills. Look around, this is indeed the Internet face of the hobby: thousands upon thousands of forum members, yet evidence of only a handful of accomplished modelers...and the same ones from forum to forum! Many of today's newbies seem quite willing to buy anything at any price but are equally unwilling to spend the time to learn the intricate skills that make one a model railroader. I'm afraid that our hobby is slowly edging its way toward becoming one largely of collecting and arranging store bought items on a board, or benchwork. I don't say that you must make everything yourself...but to make nothing? How is that model railroading?

Back a few years ago there was the widely voiced opinion that RTR engines and cars would give wouldbe hobbyists the freedom of extra time to develop strikingly better layouts. Now we are progressively approaching a time of RTR everything and, judging by what one usually sees in the various weekend photo threads on many forums, this claim was purely a fallacy. And the RTR revolution has resulted in a distinct dicotomy in the hobby, with the skilled old-school hobbyists largely avoiding the general forums and either participating in limited access, much more advanced sites, or avoiding the Internet all together. In fact, there was just a long discussion of this very subject on the MR Forum.

NYW&B

 

[stationmaster]

Let me say, my layout has been 12 years in the making. And, though I do hate to say it, it is forever evolving. Not so much as being built as it is being tweeked, having additional modules attached..... Others being built to change eras. (Gotta keep the grandkids happy with engines and cars they can relate to, the modern stuff).

Granted, assembling cars takes time away from the construction of the layout. But, at the same time, many of us "old timers" did not have the luxury of RTR's. And in order to keep some of the expenses down, we learned to be innovative and use things that we could "bash" or make do. We learned to find the most curious, and most times most unlikely items were used. I still make and use 2" PVC pipe for my grain elevator silos. Just paint them a concrete gray.

But, I think in time, hopefully, that once a hobbyist finishes his layout, he will become bored with the humdrum RTR items and turn his attention to more challenging projects. For years I ran undetailed, unweathered engines and cars. It's just been the past 7-10 years that I have taken on the challenge of weathering. I still buy the box kits for rolling stock, unless they are unavailable. But, with over 2000 cars, I really don't think that there is too much more that I need. Except for the more modern rolling stock.

I do hope that my prophesy comes true. I really would hate to see the craftsman be lost to all. Also, let's not forget the tinkerer. The one that takes a discarded engine, non-running, and breaths life back into a long forgotten element of another's railroad. I so hope these guys(and gals) will forever remain a par t of the hobby.

Bob

 

[tankist]

The craftsman may soon be a legacy, just like that old steamer.

Bob, if you ask me this is happening in every single hobby.

where i grew up there was almost no such thing as hobby industry. this means if one was into building RC plane or boat besides being good at carpentry to make the model itself he also needed to be good with electronics. one would take an article published schematics for RC system and re-engineer it depending on what components he has available or can get. get for this matter does not necessarily meant buy. some components were sold but most were salvaged from what one could find, old TV, radio,whatever. this means recalculating transistor cascades and hours of tuning. then if a model intended to be powered (not a sail boat or rubber engine plane, sail plane) one would need to build internal combustion engine. from chunk of metal, with lathe and mill. in late 80's i spotted pre-made engine in store. priced at several salaries of my dad. those who purchased reported it needed total rebuild to make it operational.

those things were not accomplished by just anybody. to be involved in such hobby meant being member of some youth club (government funded from education budget). this somewhat limited the ammount of people involved but those that did produced simply incredible things. my dad, winner of several statewide competitions in model ship building / racing in his time (and builder of several models that competed internationally), still recalls the live steam engines (probably somwhere in 1:25 - 1:40 scale) produced by steam engine building club next door (many clubs or "circles" usually shared a building). according to him no steam model he seen here by this day can rival what that club produced detail and functionality wise. maybe this is just his nostalgia thing but i never seen more detailed ship models then were built by him and his club members. actually a funny thing, he met one of the members he used to build stuff with, who also moved to US living in neighboring nothern chicago burb.




in light of that the "ohhh, the kits are going away.instant gratitude. end of craftsmanship" seems bit to dramatic. frankly, assembling a car or building out of the kit is almost like microwaving a pre made meal - does require effort to achieve good results but the most effort was put in by the engineer who designed the kit in first place, modeller just follows directions.
craftsmanship doesn't need to go away, one can still build kits or scratch build things if he likes but instant gratitude is not all bad. i guess i could etch my own PCB and build RC system or a DCC system (and i found nice resource about that), but i'd rather just buy those - save time, quality of these things is stellar and can no longer be surpassed at home IMHO. engines for models are also amazing quality (although still not always reaching some hand built speciments i seen), and actually with the today's awesome li-po power-packs and brush-less motors i don't see a need for IC engines for modeling altogether. another huge improvement is interface with computers, almost all the need of building hardware is gone. unlike as far back as 6 years ago there are some nice solutions available of the shelf for someone building a aircraft simulator/cockpit at home (i hope to complete my some day).

 

[UP2CSX]

Bob is a ham radio operator like me so he will identify with this. There were companies like Heathkit, Lafayette, and even Radio Shack that offered kits to build all kinds of radios, from simple receivers to complex transmitters. Even antennas were usually built from plans or kits. You had to know Morse Code and pass a battery of tests in electonic theory to get your license. If you couldn't solder, tough luck, better find another hobby.

Ham radio operators and model railroaders have always shared one thing - the public thinks we're a little "odd". That was OK, though. I had my trains and radios and I was happy.

Now fast forward 50 years. Ham radio was a dying hobby made up mostly of crusty old men who, instead of welcoming newcomers, gave them nothing but grief. If your equipment couldn't electrocute you, you weren't a "real" ham. Heathkit, Lafayette, and Radio Shack kits were long gone since there were almost no new hams coming into the hobby. Luckily, other companies, mostly from Japan and, later, China, popped up and saw an unmet market. More people might buy ham radios if they were a high quality product that was already put together. The American Radio Relay League, the NMRA of hams, saw the hobby was about to fade away if they kept expecting everyone who wanted to be in ham radio to be an electronics expert and know Morse Code, which is still in use by the remnants of those crusty old men. The ARRL, working with the FCC, gradually reduced license requirements and now you can get a ham license for the most used bands by taking a 30 question test that most people can learn with an hour or so of study. Ham radio is now beginning to grow again for the first time in decades. The crusty old men said "Yeah, but these aren't real ham. We're real hams because our equipment can still electrocute us". Radios are now generally well made, you buy everything off the shelf, and about the only soldering you might need is for that odd coax connector.

See any parallels? Every hobby has their crusty old men who believe the sky is falling if we don't continue to do things just like we did 50 years ago. There are still places you can buy kit radios and some guys still build their own rigs. Not many, but some, and there will always be some. Model railroading is the same way. There will be less kits and less scratchbuilders but there will always be some.

One more thing. Take my Heathkit transceiver I built in 1962 (because I was a "craftsman") and put it next to a modern Kenwood or Icom radio of today. The Heathkit can still electrocute me but it's a piece of junk compared to today's radios. Now take my Athearn UP F units I completely detailed in 1970 and won first prize for in a local NMRA contest. Put it next to an Atlas or P2K F-7. Once again, the Twilight Zone has caught up with us. My Athearn units are on the display shelf. I run my Atlas and P2K units.

 

[kenw]

yeah, but can that P2K unit electrocute ya?

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I went to my LHS today looking for a cheap Athearn boxcar that was within the era I'm modeling. No roof walk, low mounted brake wheel and low ladders. There were lots of RTR items that fit the bill but all were outside my price range. $12 or less. Finances are kind of tight for the next few months. There was a grand total of 4 BB kits. # cabooses and 1 50' boxcar. The boxcar was exactly what I was looking for and it was priced at $9. Perfect. There were also a few kits from Proto 2000, E&B Hobbies, and a couple of others but the vast majority were the more expensive and exceedingly glossy RTR cars from Athearn, Walther's and Bachmann with the odd Atlas thrown in for variety. There were also a large choice of sets, all from Athearn and Bachmann. Went to Hobby Lobby and the cars there are Bachmann RTR, HO and N and all the HO and N sets were Bachmann.

 

[NH Mike]

I noticed the same thing when I got back into it after over 20 years. Seeing a price tag of $250 for a plastic shell diesel even with minute details and all the electronics on board was quite a shock. No denying how well they look and everything else about them. Then I noticed the Atlas Trainman series which basically is the same as their old yellow box Kato build engines as far as details and performance. Good enough to match what I already have accumulated at a reasonable price. With all the engines and rolling stock I already had I just couldn't justify upgrading to the super duper RTR all electronic units, and the big price tag doesn't help change my mind. Since I enjoy adding details and doing my own paint jobs I always bought Undec engines either to finish them for my own road or for a specific prototype like the New Haven. I frequent two LHS that I would consider to be stocked more for the craftsmen and even they have few if any Undec engines. Both are very willing to order them in but tell me they aren't as big in demand as they once were. Even finding data only rolling stock is like going on a scavenger hunt so if I really want a particular car it is an off the shelf RTR that I end up either doing a patch job over the roadname or a complete strip and repaint along with new decals.

There is one thing I was happy to see change and that was the fading out of the old NMRA horn hook couplers. The first few RTR cars I picked up with either Accumate or McHenry couplers I figured I'd give them a shot. Before the day was over they got replaced with Kadees. That is just my personal experience with those couplers and I do consider them to be a plus for anyone new to the hobby versus the old NMRA couplers.

As was pointed out by others; the great thing about this hobby is you can find your specific areas of interest whether it be electronics, kit building, scenery, or anything else and short cut the remainder with RTR or pre-builts or whatever. To each according to their abilities and budget.

 

[V&AL]

makes a "youngster" (26) like me wonder what it's gonna be like when I've been in the hobby 40-50 years...

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

By then they might be able to beam the product to you.