Track nails into hollow core door ?

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hammer

hammer

New Member
Hi all-

I'm designing my first N scale layout, and have a question about laying track. I plan on using a 36" X 80" hollow-core door as my sub-roadbed, and cork for the roadbed. I'm using Code 80 Atlas flextrack. Will the wood sheathing of a hollow-core door provide enough 'bite' for track nails, or should I glue the track ?

Thanks for any responses. I welcome differing opinions, using your collective experiences as my guide.
 


The sheathing on most doors will provide enough bite for track nails.....I'd only worry if you were planning on moving the door around a lot. The top decks on a lot of our NTRAK modules isn't much thicker and even with all the moving around it does fine. In addition, if you are planning on ballasting using diluted white glue, the ballast and glue will do a good job of anchoring the track. If you glue the track, find a glue that you can "un-glue" easily. Everyone makes a few "goofs" as they lay track and if it's glued, it can be a major headache to fix. If it's nailed, you simply pull a couple of nails and re-align the track....you can test run the layout (I ran mine for several months), which you can't do with glue. Once you're sure it's right, add ballast and glue......that should make everything semi-permanent......if you need to pull up track, you can still wet white glue and get it to unstick.
 
Thank you very much for your input, MRLdave.
Yes, I do plan on ballasting, and I can see where that adds to the rigidity.
When folks say "white glue", does regular white Elmer's Glue qualify ?
 
You might also try cheap latex calk as an alternative to track nails. It has engough working time to get the track set but will hold well when it's dry. It will work on both the cork roadbed and the track. If you even want to remove it, just spray it down with water, let it soak a bit, and it will peel right up with a putty knife. I really don't like using nails on N scale track because it's easy to get them to far into the tie and bend the track out of gauge. They also look ugly in photos. With the glue and ballast/glue combination, it will be plenty strong enough and you wont have nailheads sticking up.
 
Track nails should pierce the doorskin easily...but that's just the problem as I see it; the bottom half of the nails will most often be in empty interior space, not providing the leverage that the already short shank shoud provide.

I would use a very thin layer of acrylic latex caulking. So thin a sharp pencil point will barely make a dent. More is a waste.

-Crandell
 


Jim makes a good point about setting the nails.....if you set them too deep you can deform the track. When I lay track, I only use nails every 3rd or 4th hole in the track, and I drill the holes using a pin vise and a bit slightly smaller than the nails. Then I push the nails in with a punch using hand pressure......no pounding. I've never had track shift......N scale equipment simply doesn't have the weight to cause any major shifting. Remeber that the nail has to go through the track tie,the cork, and then the wood.....there won't be that much nail unsupported. And once you've ballasted, you can pull the nails if the heads bother you. As you've seen, mounting track is a highly debated subject.......and there isn't a right or wrong way.......if it works for you, then it's "right" no matter what anyone else says. But since this is your first layout, I always suggest using the method that's easiest to undo if you change your mind or make a mistake. Glue does give you some working time to shift track, but I don't like running trains on freshly glued track, so you'll still have a few "bugs" that you don't see till it's too late.
 
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I just caught this thread, and I don't know how I missed it before now. So, let me add a little input.

From 1973 until I moved to a Birmingham, Al suburb in 1989, I was in the Mobile Society of Model Engineers.
For a sectional layout that we built in 1984, we used hollow core doors as the basis of the layout. This was HO scale. We used staples, 9/16", to hold the cork in place and then we tacked the track down with track nails. The last thing scenery wise was to ballast the track, using a 50/50 mixture of white glue and water. We pre-wet the ballast with alcohol.
While I haven't lived in Mobile since 1989 I have seen the layout twice since then, last being 2003, and the original track was still in place. Once the track was ballasted, the nails became redundant. The glue in the ballast keeps all the trackwork in place.
 
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I've also used nails back in the day before the concept of latex caulk came out. As has been said, once the track is securely ballasted, nails are redundant and can be removed. In HO, that wasn't a big problem with a little nail puller, but we did an N scale layout and I was surprised at how difficult it was to remove the nails without damaging the tie or ballast. I think the smaller nails get glued in a lot tighter with the ballast glue mixture. For this reason, I now tend to steer away from nails in N scale unless I absolutely have to use them secure a stubborn curve.
 
Gentlemen -- I procured the hollow core door today. I also bought both track nails and acrylic latex caulk. It does sound like there is probably no 'best way', but I'm going to jump in with both feet in the next couple of days.
One way or another ....... track WILL be layed ! :)
 
hammer said:
Gentlemen -- I procured the hollow core door today. I also bought both track nails and acrylic latex caulk. It does sound like there is probably no 'best way', but I'm going to jump in with both feet in the next couple of days.
One way or another ....... track WILL be layed ! :)
Click to expand...

Exciting stuff isn't it? I have my hollow core door ready to go, installed a set of folding table legs on it, first order of Kato unitrack should be here tomorrow. Last thing before starting to lay track is getting a piece of extruded foam for the base. Can't wait to get started!
 
A little tip for you, fellas: when you go to remove any nails you don't want to remain in place, beware the ripped-up track phenomenon. You wouldn't be the first to grab ahold of a nail head with needle nosed pliers and tug upward, only to find you have just brought with it about two feet of carefully groomed curved track.

This happens with the glues around the nail. It also bonds the nail to the underside of the tie. Sooooooooo...use two hands, always. Two fingers on either side of the nail, or on one side, but firmly pressed against the rails (careful with lighter codes!), and do a deliberate lift of the nail under full control.

I learned that...uh...someplace...yeah, I read it.... :rolleyes:
-Crandell
 
Selector said:
A little tip for you, fellas: when you go to remove any nails you don't want to remain in place, beware the ripped-up track phenomenon. You wouldn't be the first to grab ahold of a nail head with needle nosed pliers and tug upward, only to find you have just brought with it about two feet of carefully groomed curved track.
Click to expand...
Been there and done that!
 
Hammer,
Therer are several things you can do if you want to use track nails as opposed to some type of gule.

As was mentioned the door only has a thin layer of vaneer covering it and to ensure a good bite on the nails I would suggest predrilling every hole with a bit a size or two smaller than the diameter of the shank of the TN's, Harbor Freight often sells a digital 6"
caliper for about $18.00 I believe which is a very good investment to ensure your usinmg the proper drill size not only for doing this but other future jobs.

Also a predrilled hole is a lot less likely to splinter on the inside where you can't see.

As an alternative to just the thin top of the door why not get a sheet of say 1/4" plywood or OSB maybe in 3/8" and glue it to the door for added thickness. I'd still predrill all your nail holes to ensure maxium hold though. This may seem like a lot of work but it will give you much better results than just driving the nails in the wood with no drilling.

Believe it or not, when I hand lay my track on Wood Ties that I have alrewady glued down, I predrill each wood tie on each side of the rail, of every eight tie that is, prior to spiking the rail down on it to ensure I don't split any ties and get the best hold I can.
As was stated prior also once I wet the ballast with a dilution of water & white glue and a few drops of dish soap to act as a wetting agent, usually enough gets into the spoike holes to firmly hold everything in place.

So there's several alternatives for you.

Also, if you want to put a TN in a tie that isn't already predrilled for it be sure you use a bit that is bigger than the shank by a couple of sizes, a few thousandths.
 
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Very good input, Trussrod ! .... thanks so much.
Due to some needed plumbing repair, I'm a bit behind schedule with my layout project.
I've glued and screwed the 1" X 4"'s on the bottom on the door, in order to mount the legset. When that dries completely (this afternoon), I'll press on. I like the idea of adding 3/8" plywood to the top for extra rigidity. Great idea !
 


Hammer,
Glad you liked the idea of the added 3/8 board, just be careful of driving your track nails in too much as Jim mentioned so as not to cause the plastic ties to form a V and pull the rail closer together.

Now here's another idea for you to kick around, even though track nails are commonly used why not use actual rail spikes? But, I'm not suggesting putting them in the center hole as you would with the TN but rather on the outside of the rail to hold the ties down.
Rail spikes do come in different lengths and most generally have a small flat head, I usually squeeze mine so the head is more bunched up vertically with the spike shaft and for a bit more strength to hold the rail down. So now if you really wanted to get tricky using spikes you could drill just outside the rail down through where the simulated spike is
and place your spike there with no danger of deforming the tie between the rails. A Dremel tool and some tiny bit set [drills HSS High Speed Steel] would be needed and come in handy for other things too.

Micro Engineering does offer fine spikes in both 3/16" & 1/4" item #30-106 lengths but remember these are meant to be driven into actual wood ties with the rail set drectly on the ties and the web at the base of the rail is only 15ths thick so you need the longer
1/4' for sure if your drilling down through the simulated molded spike on the flex track. If you could drill down along side of this and just through the tie it would give you a better hold.

This may be more work than you want to go through but a thought anyway and you could always set a few TN lightly till you got your rail spiked in place and then remove the TN completely before glueing anything down. Oh, if the TN points are bigger than the nail holes in the track or the shaft size is almost the same diameter it would pay you to drill out the nail holes a couple sizes to prevent sticking later on if you were going to remove them.

HTH
 
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