The Weathering Thread

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uspscsx

The Name's Really Matt...
Well guys, I went shopping today. Oh how fun it was. First, I went to Hobbytown USA and got an HO Scale Athearn RTR PS 5277 Railbox, Some of that Testors Clear Parts and Window Maker Cement, and some Dullcote in a cheap spray can. Then, I went to Michael's(Local craft store) and bought $15 worth of chalks, and a brush to apply chalks with. Overall, a good trip. The RailBox will be going on eBay. You think I should do a step-by-step on here similar to MrKluke's on The Railwire?
 

uspscsx

The Name's Really Matt...
Here is that RailBox:

PA131267.png


PA131268.png

I love that realistic overspray on the roof! Plus, wire grabs and stirrups, metal wheelsets, and a few other details. AND, I plan on adding air hoses and coupler cut bars. This one is gonna look good! :eek:
 
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grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
uspscsx said:
Then, I went to Michael's(Local craft store) and bought $15 worth of chalks, and a brush to apply chalks with.

I was in Hobby Lobby the other day and saw a variety of artist pastels in appropriate colors. Is that what you bought? I wasn't sure they were what I needed. My chalk supply I bought years ago at a now defunct LHS are about gone.
 

uspscsx

The Name's Really Matt...
grande man said:
I was in Hobby Lobby the other day and saw a variety of artist pastels in appropriate colors. Is that what you bought? I wasn't sure they were what I needed. My chalk supply I bought years ago at a now defunct LHS are about gone.
Yeah, that's probably what I got. I got a 12-pack of Loew-Cornell artist pastels for $7.99. I also got some fancy brand of artist's crayons to finish up the WC hopper. $4 for two of them! Sheesh.

It seems we have a Hobby-Lobby around here as well. Haven't been there in forever if there is one.
 
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dthurman

Guest
Just about any artist pastels will work. I was also at Hobby Lobby the other day, bought a ton of misc stuff, they have some pretty good prices compared to my LHS, I bought 3 bags of WS Polly Fiber for like $2.00 ea. I was going to buy some artist oil pastels, not sure what the difference would be. Also Hobby Lobby carries a large assortment of india inks in a ton of colors.
 

RCH

Been Nothin' Since Frisco
There are pastel chalks and there are oil pastels. The chalks are exactly that. The oil pastels are more like a soft, oily crayon.

GM, I have several freight cars done similarly to that HGPX car, but I haven't photographed many of them. In fact, most are in storage now that my girls are 2 and 3 years old. It's just too risky a proposition to keep them anywhere near their reach. But, someday I'll get them out, make the necessary repairs and photograph them.

As far as the amount of time it takes to do these cars is concerned, you're right: it takes a long time. But, it's worth it. I have found that having the finished product, while satisfying, is not nearly as enjoyable as the process of creating it, so in the end, it's worth every last minute.

To put the amount of time it takes in perspective, I have a 52 car grain train I've been working on replicating from photos, notes, memory, etc. I have two of five locomotives done, a caboose and two locomotives in progress and about 30 freight cars complete. I've been at it for 14 years.
 

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
Well Ryan, your work is mighty fine. While I'm happy with my "dirtied" models, I'm inspired to give "superdetailed weathering" a try myself.
 

RCH

Been Nothin' Since Frisco
Well, thanks Grande Man. Let me tell you, I'm more than a little envious of your layout and fleet. You do awfully nice work yourself.
 

uspscsx

The Name's Really Matt...
I have another tip: If you are planning on weathering a Railbox, you NEED some brand of dull yellow chalk. It changed my Railbox's life..Hehe.

More later...

Matt
 
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dthurman

Guest
RCH said:
There are pastel chalks and there are oil pastels. The chalks are exactly that. The oil pastels are more like a soft, oily crayon.
Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?
 

RCH

Been Nothin' Since Frisco
dthurman said:
Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?
David, I've only ever used them in a "fine art" capacity, working on heavy paper to make drawings. I don't have any experience using them for weathering. However, because of my experience with them I wouldn't use them for weathering. There are other mediums which, in my opinion, are superior to oil pastels.

If you want the flexibility of using oils (endless color possibilities, finely ground pigments, thin finish), then artists oils are superior to oil pastels. Artists oils can be applied to any surface with brushes or just about any other tool you can think of. Oil pastels would have to be ground into a paste to accomplish the same thing.

You can sharpen or shape oil pastels into a pen and mark directly on any surface with them, but their softness necessitates continuous sharpening and reshaping to keep them in a usable shape. Typically, you would rotate them in your grip as you draw with them (much in the same way you rotate a drafting pencil as you draw) to keep them shaped into a point, but given the precision required for weathering, especially in N scale, what works for a portrait or landscape drawing, might not work as well for drawing on rust streaks or spattered mud. However, if a pen is more your speed than a brush, you might have better success with colored pencils.

While the comparison between pastel chalks and oil pastel crayons might be the easiest to make, they are actually totally different mediums and do not behave in the same way. In other words, since most modelers who use pastel chalks for weathering grind them up into a powder, and this cannot be done easily (if at all) with oil pastel crayons, there really is no comparison.

A better comparison to pastel chalks would be weathering powders, such as those offered by AIM. Their weathering powders have an affixative blended into the powder, so when they go on, they stay on. While this aspect is appealing to many people, especially because pastel chalks have a tendency to "disappear" when you clear coat them, I am not comfortable without having the ability to undo any mistakes. I'd rather build up layers of chalk and "underweather" a model than put one too heavy application of weathering powder and "overweather" a model.

As I've more or less stated, my current methods involve oil paints and pastel chalks. Obviously, there are many methods and many folks who do exquisite work with other mediums, but these are the two that I like best. I use other techniques, too, and while I haven't tried everything, I've found a few things that work for me.

In this example, I mixed chalk with mineral spirits and dragged it downward from the roofwalk supports in an attempt to copy a prototype photo. I piled some ground chalk on parts of the roofwalk and wet it with mineral spirits to get a chunky glob effect to simulate the nasty, rotting chunks of spilled grain that collect under the roofwalks and around the hatches. I also airbrushed the grime "spray" that seems to collect on the underframe using enamels. When I get this model back out of storage, I'd like to spend some more time on the underframe to get it away from looking so plain. But, it's a good illustration of the chalk/mineral spirits technique, so here it is:

original.gif


This model shows artists oils painted directly on the model. For rust spots, I paint the lightest shades first then build the rust spot toward the center using progressively darker shades. Many of the rust spots are actually real rust, embellished with paint. For the real rust, I took steel shavings and sprinkled them over the model after I spritzed it with a 50-50 mixutre of hydrogen peroxide and water. I stored the model in an airtight bin, opening it daily to mist it again. I did that for about two weeks until some pretty good rust spots appeared. I also applied titanium white directly from the tube onto the carbody to tone the whole car down a bit. I worked the paint with a large hogshair brush until the paint was spread evenly but nearly gone leaving a whitish cast, which seems to simulate the dusty appearance of some prototype cars. Also, it's worth mentioning that on this car, I painted the insides of the stirrups a dark brown/black color to make them appear thinner. It seemed to work well, so I've started doing it on all my cars.

large.gif


This model was weathered using 1000 grit sandpaper (to remove the lettering) and chalks. It's a pretty straightforward weathering job, but for as little effort as I put into it, it looks the part.

original.gif


I hope this gives you some ideas of what can be done with a very simple palette of materials and colors. If I can suggest anything, it's that you try everything until one method "speaks" to you. Master that method and then you can apply what you learn from it to any other method.
 
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dthurman

Guest
Great reply Ryan! I use artists oils for paint, I like the way they thin much better then the acrylics, and placing oils on top of chalk is the way to go. Those are some superb weathering jobs. My hat off to you. I have been using the clear parts cement from testors with some decent reults, but it goes on too thick for my tastes. I was told over at the modeltrainsweathered forum to place the bottle in some warm/hot water similar to what others do with Dullcote.

You definately answered my question on oil pastels, glad I didn't waste the $$ at HobbyLobby the other day when I was looking at them.

Thanks
 

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
hyrail5 said:
look on the banner up top on the front page. there is a photo listed with a link to this thread.
That's a nice showcase of current thread examples for someone surfing. It's a visual indication for them to stay and talk some trains with us. An invitation of sorts.
 
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dthurman

Guest
hyrail5 said:
look on the banner up top on the front page. there is a photo listed with a link to this thread.
Ah! I see I have a lot to learn on how the forum works, which so far is fantastic! I had wondered what the red sign meant on the top right of each post also and learned it's use too, very well thought out and snappy.

Thanks Hyrail
 

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
dthurman said:
Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?

I'm glad you asked about the oil pastels. I wondered about them last time I was at Hobby Lobby.

I'll save the $$$ to put on their great selection of standard pastels next time we're in there.

Thanks Ryan and David.
 
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dthurman

Guest
RCH said:
No problem. Just in case you're interested in the weathering powders I mentioned, you can get them, along with a whole lot of information on weathering, here:

http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/weatheringproducts.htm

Just go to http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/forum/ for the discussion forum.
Your right ryan, Rich's site has to be one of the best weathering sites on line or least that I am aware of, I know there are some Yahoo groups, there are some great/intimidating weatherers on that board. I only wish it was more active, seems to go in spurts. Mellow-Mike also has some pages on his site that he shows some very good closeups of details that are important on weathering. I also agree that a person should do their weathering from an actual photo to make sure they are following mother natures method of weathering ;)

I have a whole workbench full of coal gondolas, containers, boxcars and a few cov hoppers wating for the honors of getting real-world fixed. I find the weathering to be very relaxing and theraputic (sp) to do. Though N scale can be a challange. Can't wait for the day when we move, get that big back yard for the G layout. I am hoping by then all the G stuff will be built with actual stamped thin walled steel and just throw some rock salt on them, little bleach and get some real weathering action :)
 




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