OK layout for my room time again.

[stang_crazy]

Ok so i think a lil over a month ago I made a post "what would be the best type of layout for my room"

Well a few of ya mentioned a round the room, well ive come up with a real rough & i mean ROUGH draft.

Down at the bottom of page. Dont feel obligated to read everything but id apreciate it if ya did, that way if ya got any usefull info for me that be great.

But it gave me a really good idea on what I can and cant fit. Now there is lots of tweaking to do and track to move and replace. But it helps to see it. Plus there is plenty or room for industries if i wanna go out a few more inchs i can the most ill go is 30" wide from the wall on the non loops.

Id love to have a double track mainline but dont see it happening in this space with larger curves, if i went to 18's sure it could be done.

all the curves are 24 radius or larger. Figured id better have at least that since i have quite a few 6 axles diesel's and some larger. Challenger, bigboy, dd40.

But i know them last 3 are gonna be tough on anything less then a 30 deree radius im sure.


My only main issue i see im gonna have with a 24 degree radius is down in the bottom right hand corner. I may have to have the curve closest to the edge where it starts to make its way to hit the stretch that goes up may need to be turned into a 22" there. The wouldnt be the worst. I originally wanted at least 26" curves buuuuuuut then im going to start having reach factors. Pretty much everything thats straight ect is 24" wide from the wall forward. At first it didnt seem there was gonna be any room for any decent scenery, but after maken the outline of the bench work i see there is plenty.

Just need to move track here and there and redo stuff. Im wanting to incorperate a yard twords the top stretching over to the upper right hand corner.

On the bottom loop i thought about maybe putting in a round house for my bigger steamers stuff like that. Your thoughts.

This has been frustrating me since i made the last post and tonight i sat here for about 3 hours trying all different things till i finally got it to where i can actually start to vision it.

So anythoughts, hints, ect.... just remeber this isnt the actualy track plan, but the bench work will be simular, it was just to get the brain ago before i gave up on the layout part all together.

Ok sorry for the loooooong rant. Thanks for looking though. (also sorry for the 9 million typos im sure are in this post its 6am & ive now been up 24 hours.)

Mike

 

[lmackattack]

Given the space you have that basic benchwork plan should will work good for you. And remember you dont need flat sides. you can add some curves or "cut corners" on an angel to get that extra 6" where reach issues are not present. this can get that yard a little fatter or to add anther buisness spur etc..Now IMHO build the radius around what the room can handel. we all want 40" radius and large steam and diesels but some times we just need to come to reality that it wont work out as planned and its better to just take thse down to the club layout. At home I had to use 22" max for mainline ad 18" in the yards as my room was a little smaller than yours. even with my 22" mainline I do have some reach issues at that end of my dog bone. I had to cut out an "inspection hatch" to maintance that aera. I think you should think real hard if you will be running mostly 4 axel diesels and small/med steam. or if you want that Big boy and trio of SD40-2 around. I had to give in and go with 1950s transition and run 40-50' cars and keep my locos manageable for the radius used. I can still run Mountains, Mikes, Hudsons, SD7 etc.. but most of the time its 4 axel diesel and small/med steam with short tenders. Not only does it look better but the trains stay on track almost 95% of the time!!!
I think a round house is out of the question. Not only will it take up all that space, you wont have many tracks that will extend to the length that would look prototypical. I think adding a fuel island or ash pit as for a short line or branch line will save space and you will can do more with it. I assume thats the doorway in gray? If so I would give it a little more space to access the room . you dont think it will bother you now but when your carry your train boxes in and out it will be a PITA. I think its a great start. When you get to track planning let us see it and we can give you our toughts.

good luck
Trent

 

[stang_crazy]

Given the space you have that basic benchwork plan should will work good for you. And remember you dont need flat sides. you can add some curves or "cut corners" on an angel to get that extra 6" where reach issues are not present. this can get that yard a little fatter or to add anther buisness spur etc..Now IMHO build the radius around what the room can handel. we all want 40" radius and large steam and diesels but some times we just need to come to reality that it wont work out as planned and its better to just take thse down to the club layout. At home I had to use 22" max for mainline ad 18" in the yards as my room was a little smaller than yours. even with my 22" mainline I do have some reach issues at that end of my dog bone. I had to cut out an "inspection hatch" to maintance that aera. I think you should think real hard if you will be running mostly 4 axel diesels and small/med steam. or if you want that Big boy and trio of SD40-2 around. I had to give in and go with 1950s transition and run 40-50' cars and keep my locos manageable for the radius used. I can still run Mountains, Mikes, Hudsons, SD7 etc.. but most of the time its 4 axel diesel and small/med steam with short tenders. Not only does it look better but the trains stay on track almost 95% of the time!!!
I think a round house is out of the question. Not only will it take up all that space, you wont have many tracks that will extend to the length that would look prototypical. I think adding a fuel island or ash pit as for a short line or branch line will save space and you will can do more with it. I assume thats the doorway in gray? If so I would give it a little more space to access the room . you dont think it will bother you now but when your carry your train boxes in and out it will be a PITA. I think its a great start. When you get to track planning let us see it and we can give you our toughts.

good luck
Trent

Hey trent,

thanks for the responce. Well as far as radius goes id like to stick to the 24" but I think down in that bottom right corner im goin to do a 22" and ill more then likely make everything in side the mainline 22 also.

The majority of what ill be running is 6 axle. The giganto stuff i listed I have but will prolly just be ran here and there from time to time. SO in that case i believe 22-24 should be sufficent.

No local club here closest I know of is about hour & half away, and i believe thier main set up is O gauge. Heck i dont even know of any model RR's in this town. Im sure there are some I just dont know how to find out. Ive thought about posting up a couple flyers at grocery stores with something about looking for model RR's

Regarding the roundhouse, that kinda what i figured. But ill more then likely add a repair facility some where.

The doorway in gray is correct, Its not quite that big and its not a normal door its one of them bi or tri fold doors or what ever ya may wanna call it. SO when its open all the way it sits flat against the wall and its about 1' wide i believe. But im thinkin of makeing the door so it opens to the outside with a normal door.

Ill get a pic of it later. One thing I also realized is that even with having the layout this way & if i only go a max of 24-30" from wall on the long runs I can still put my shelves up Which is where i wanna store my say big boy and challenger, ect.

But im gonna mess around a lil this after noon on a track plan. I know some of the industries I want ect just need to figure out how big they are gonna be.

thanks Mike

 

[Beachbum]

I'm not clear on where the entrance door to the room is located. If it's that gray box at the bottom, I think the entry into the middle of the layout might be uncomfortably tight.

I'm also not sure what the purpose of the passing siding is in the upper left corner. Looks like you'll not have room for an industry there unless you're planning on using a backdrop building or a building flat.

But I think you have the start of a good plan here - lots of potential, especially if you don't want a duckunder or lift-out section.

Are you going to elevate, hide, or keep the tracks along the walls at one level? A folded dogbone like this lends itself easily to a two track mainline (IMO) if you put in a couple crossovers.

Just my thoughts. Keep us posted as you develop your plan.

 

[UP2CSX]

Your layout plan is very similar to mine so, of course, I like it. It looks like you have plenty of room for 26" curves on the left but the right side dimensions are going to limit you to 22" radius curves unless you can bring out that blob about another foot. Unfortunately, if you do, I think you'll have some serious reach problems in that corner. Well laid 22" curves will handle most six axle diesels and most articulated steam but the emphasis is on well laid. Most guys slap down tracks and hope for the best. If you really take your time and make sure the curve flows freely with no kinks, 22" radius curves work fine. The overhang has to be taken into account when you plan scenery though.

I agree with Trent about the roundhouse. It will take up way too way much space and you don't have enough track space for the leads and storage tracks. An engine house on the lower left island would work. If you rework the track plan to use a compound ladder from where the present yard lead comes off the main, you should be able to sqeeze in a three tracks yard and an engine house track.

You have the same situation I do with the two mainline tracks running fairly close to each other. You need to carefully plan your scenery so the track against the back wall has as many view blocks as possible. You want to give the illusion that the train disappears and then reappears. You can do this with a low range of hills, industrial flats, or even a thick forest. The less people are aware of the rear mainline, the longer the front mainline will appear. I used a combination of all three plus my town so the rear mainline is almost completely blocked from view. I can stop a reasonable length train of say 10 cars there and do some switching in the front and people will think the mainline train is still running off somewhere. I'd try to have spurs and the yard lead come off the front mainline rather than the rear. They will be easier to reach and people like to see action on the layout.

 

[lmackattack]

thats a good point Beachbum. Adding elevation and having a few crossovers can make a single track main line almost double the size.. Only thing I can see as an issue is that he still wants 24 inch radius he wont get an inner loop unless he goes down to 18-22" radius and that gets tight for the 6 axel diesels. my rule as far as radius is.. take the MFG reccomended min radius and then go to the next larger radius. Example if a MFG says their SD40-2 can operate on a minimum radius of 18". I will consider they run "flawless" on 22" or larger. I have found that the MFGs say what you want to hear. It is the user that needs to under stand that just because they say it make it around a tight radius does not mean it can do it consistenly without issues.

Edit: jim posted when I was typing. I agree that a partialu hidden rear mainline makes the layout look larger as the train dissapears and comes back. almost like it went farther than the layout leads you to belive.This is one thing I could not really do on my layout as the room was just too small

trent

 

[lmackattack]

the only other thing I can think of you could do(IMO i dont like them but its an idea) is to use that large blob at the lower left as a small helix to get to ashelf above the lower layout. Again I am not a fan of them but you will get about 2/3 more layout out of it.

just a thought!!!

 

[stang_crazy]

I'm not clear on where the entrance door to the room is located. If it's that gray box at the bottom, I think the entry into the middle of the layout might be uncomfortably tight.

I'm also not sure what the purpose of the passing siding is in the upper left corner. Looks like you'll not have room for an industry there unless you're planning on using a backdrop building or a building flat.

But I think you have the start of a good plan here - lots of potential, especially if you don't want a duckunder or lift-out section.

Are you going to elevate, hide, or keep the tracks along the walls at one level? A folded dogbone like this lends itself easily to a two track mainline (IMO) if you put in a couple crossovers.

Just my thoughts. Keep us posted as you develop your plan.

Really there is no ryme or reason for the track plan it was just thrown together basically to creat beinch work.

As far as the door goes ive taken that into consideration, like i said its one of them fold up doors. But im going to change it so it opens to the outside of the room.

 

[stang_crazy]

Your layout plan is very similar to mine so, of course, I like it. It looks like you have plant of room for 26" curves on the left but the right side dimensions are going to limit you to 22" radius curves unless you can bring out that blob about another foot. Unfortunately, if you do, I think you'll have some serious reach problems in that corner. Well laid 22" curves will handle most six axle diesels and most articulated steam but the emphasis is on well laid. Most guys slap down tracks and hope for the best. If you really take your time and make sure the curve flows freely with no kinks, 22" radius curves work fine. The overhang has to be taken inot account when you plan scenery though.

I agree with Trent about the roundhouse. It will take up way too way much space and you don't have enough track space for the leads and storage tracks. An engine house on the lower left island would work. If you rework the track plan to use a compound ladder from where the present yard lead comes off the main, you should be able to sqeeze in a three tracks yard and an engine house track.

You have the same situation I do with the two mainline tracks running fairly close to each other. You need to carefully plan your scenery so the track against the back wall has as many view blocks as possible. You want to give the illusion that the train disappears and then reappears. You can do this with a low range of hills, industrial flats, or even a thick forest. The less people are aware of the rear mainline, the longer the front mainline will appear. I used a combination of all three plus my town so the rear mainline is almost completely blocked from view. I can stop a reasonable length train of say 10 cars there and do some switching in the front and people will think the mainline train is still running off somewhere. I'd try to have spurs and the yard lead come off the front mainline rather than the rear. They will be easier to reach and people like to see action on the layout.

I would ahve to agree with ya on the radiuses jim, as im gonna turn the lower right into 22's ill prolly just leave the left 24's

as far as the back mainline i thought about alot of trees, small hills ect...

When ya were talking about the yard i assume your talking about over on the right hand side??

ABut as far as the front and rear mainline, ill keep the rear as far back & as hidden as I can, for the front i may move it more twords the front/middle.

 

[stang_crazy]

the only other thing I can think of you could do(IMO i dont like them but its an idea) is to use that large blob at the lower left as a small helix to get to ashelf above the lower layout. Again I am not a fan of them but you will get about 2/3 more layout out of it.

just a thought!!!

yeah im not fond of that either, ill just down it to a 22" radius and just watch the benchwork for reach areas.

 

[stang_crazy]

thats a good point Beachbum. Adding elevation and having a few crossovers can make a single track main line almost double the size.. Only thing I can see as an issue is that he still wants 24 inch radius he wont get an inner loop unless he goes down to 18-22" radius and that gets tight for the 6 axel diesels.

Seeing this what areas on the layout would you put elevation?? I thought about having some points higher then others but not sure what to even do there.


Most likely the only area ill shrink down to a 22 radius is the lower right blob. But if I have to do the left blob to I will and just make the other areas aorund the layout 24" radius.

 

[stang_crazy]

Ok heres a updated version, As ya can see i made the opening going into the room bigger.

And made the lower left corner a bit smaller. I know there will be reach issues in that area but i dont plan for there to be much in that section except maybe a repair facility.

Also thats why i made it as small as possable cause of the reach issue.

As far as where i have marked where id like the yard, do ya think its fine there or should i move it inbetween the front and rear main track & move the front track twords the front more.
I just did a basic outline didnt add any spurs or anything as i can plan them around it once i figure out what buildings, town ect are going where.

 

[lmackattack]

does each square represent a foot?

 

[stang_crazy]

does each square represent a foot?

yes I knew i forgot to put something on there lol.

 

[lmackattack]

I think the yard will work fine there. you can get a little more track if you extend another 6" in some spots Also could squeez another island out of that aera for something. not needed but another option I guess. remember to make the yard and sidings about the same length as each other. no need for huge yard if you run 10 car trains. on my home layout my yard track and sidings hold the same amount of cars/engine. this makes life simple on small layouts!!!!

 

[UP2CSX]

Stang, the basic outline looks fine. I'd vote against elevation changes because you don't have a long enough run to make any really dramatic elevation changes and it just complicates operations. Using foam to model hills and cuts will give the illusion the train is running through higher country.

I was originally thinking of the yard in the island area on the lower left, by the door. Having the yard in the maroon area is a better idea. I like Trent's idea about adding at least 6" of space along the the areas he outlined. My narrowest section is 29", and that's enough space for the two tracks with the rear track partially hidden One foot wide is not enough space. Adding more space in front of the yard will give you more straight area for the yard lead and tracks. You can use the curved area for engine service facilities. The lower left island would make an ideal switching district. This is exactly the kind of layout I urge people to investigate instead of the traditional 4x8. It has lots of possibilities.

 

[stang_crazy]

I think the yard will work fine there. you can get a little more track if you extend another 6" in some spots Also could squeez another island out of that aera for something. not needed but another option I guess. remember to make the yard and sidings about the same length as each other. no need for huge yard if you run 10 car trains. on my home layout my yard track and sidings hold the same amount of cars/engine. this makes life simple on small layouts!!!!

trent,

thanks for the idea, i like the extra 6 inches or so that wya i can move the front track out more.

ANd im really likeing the island as that would be a nice place to put a small city or town scene or a big industrie

 

[stang_crazy]

Stang, the basic outline looks fine. I'd vote against elevation changes because you don't have a long enough run to make any really dramatic elevation changes and it just complicates operations. Using foam to model hills and cuts will give the illusion the train is running through higher country.

I was originally thinking of the yard in the island area on the lower left, by the door. Having the yard in the maroon area is a better idea. I like Trent's idea about adding at least 6" of space along the the areas he outlined. My narrowest section is 29", and that's enough space for the two tracks with the rear track partially hidden One foot wide is not enough space. Adding more space in front of the yard will give you more straight area for the yard lead and tracks. You can use the curved area for engine service facilities. The lower left island would make an ideal switching district. This is exactly the kind of layout I urge people to investigate instead of the traditional 4x8. It has lots of possibilities.

yeah im not fond of the elevated idea my self. As far as a switching area in the lower left, i thought of that or have a scrap metal facility tthere.

But i do like the switching idea.

Now for my next question, is there some what of a way to figure out how much wood ill need for the bench work??

 

[lmackattack]

Now for my next question, is there some what of a way to figure out how much wood ill need for the bench work??

Yea...... start Cutting

 

[UP2CSX]

Stang, are you going to use benchwork with framed foam or benchwork with plywood on top? The quick and dirty way to figure plywood is that about half the room's dimensions are taken up by the layout. You need half the total square feet of the room's worth of plywood. Just divide the resulting number by 32 to get the approximate number of 4x8 sheets of plywood you'll need. Same idea with foam. Framing lumber, legs and braces will be about 2.5 times the length and width of the room, in linear feet of 1x2's. If you want to be more accurate, you need to calculate the actual layout area, but the quick and dirty method will be enough to get your started without over buying.