Not to happy

[EHodges]

I recently bought my first diesel locomotive and I have had nothing but problems with it. It is a Proto 2000 C&O GP30. I purchased the decoder and set it up at the local club. Thats when the problems first started.
1. Found the front wheel gears had hairline cracks and needed to be replaced.
2. Tonight I decided I was gonna try my train out on the layout at the club for the first time ever. I placed the locomotive on the setup track and heard a hissing coming from it. We found that the wire going to the bottom of the motor grounded out on the frame and fried my decoder.
3. After I was putting the cab back on the chassis the front light fell off the wire and broke.
4. Walthers say they need a receipt to show it is new. i have had the loco for 2 weeks and never ran it on the track yet and I have had nothing but problems.
If this is the way the hobby is gonna be then i might get out of it before i get started. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. I got this from a gentleman that buys out hobby stores and resells the train items. It was brand new in the box as well as the decoder. Now I have $100 worth of a book mark and nothing to show for it.

Eric

 

[TMLW]

The cracked gears are VERY common in P2K units. I have ones right out of the box that were cracked. I replaced the axle gears in all my P2K units (about 40 units) with Athearn ones. The engines are not hard at all to put DCC in. Just have to make sure you insulate the motor from the frame. I usually use 2 or 3 layers of electrical tape on the frame.

 

[tooter]

Hi Hodges,

Sorry to hear about your problems...
The alternative I chose is to just get simple old fashioned low tech DC engines.

Greg

 

[jayl1]

#1. The cracked gears is a well known problem with the GP-30 & other early 4 axle Proto diesels. They can be repaired with Athearn SD40-2 gears (available from Athearn directly) - something like $2.50 a pack).

#2. Depending on the make, some decoder companies have a replacement warranty.

#4 . Walthers is very picky on warranty repairs. They only service items purchased from a Walthers retailer. Sorry - sounds like your seller was not one.

Just an afterthought - is the box marked as DCC ready? Not all early Proto engines were.

 

[Motley]

This is exactly why I buy at my local hobby shop. I just return it for a refund. No questions asked (except for telling them it's defective).

I run into this a lot.

 

[diburning]

Your GP30 was made by Life-Like, now Walters. The cracked gear was a problem with Life-Like, and Walthers has given away more sets of wheels than the number of engines Life-Like made. Due to people abusing the free parts, Walthers now demands proof of purchase for axle gear replacements.

The GP30 has the old Athearn-style pickup system. One side of the axles picks up power coming from one rail and is hooked up to a wire. The other side of the axles picks up power from the other rail, and is hooked up to a plate on the truck which touches the frame weight. A wire goes from the DCC plug to a screw on the frame weight to pick up power.

So, the motor IS isolated from the frame and the frame weight, but you also have to take care that the decoder doesn't touch the frame weight since the decoder is mounted upside down to the plug.

Also, Proto 2000 locomotives use low voltage bulbs (I think they're 3 volt bulbs or something like that) and they tell you to replace them. You can either replace them or wire in a resistor. (I know, it's a pain!) If you don'y replace the bulbs, you'll blow them because the DCC decoder puts 14-15 volts (track voltage) to them unless you buy a decoder specifically made for life-like locomotives. I just replace the bulbs with an LED and a resistor.

 

[lmackattack]

We all have been in your shoes and I Know its not fun. If you think this is the only time your locos will give you trouble then yes save your money and its time to leave the hobby now!!!!

Regardless we just have to relax and fix the small issues. First as mentioned the cracked gear was a well known and delt with issue when walthers took over. I have 6 of the early GP18s that all needed new gears, I used both Athearn and new Proto gears and have better luch with the new proto gears. regardless the wheels are a simple and cheep fix. Next your wire that runs under the weight can get pinched very easy. A simple solder of a new wire may be needed? The stock light bulbs run at a low voltage 1.5V if I recall? the voltage was regulated by a resistor. If you remove the stock resistors you will need to wire in new 14v bulbs or LED with the correct resistor rating. if not the stock bulbs will burn out. These older locos were not DCC ready so what you have is a loco that needs some carefull attention to the electrical routes. I have about 10 of the older Proto2000 locos and after many hours of tinkering they all run great and have helped me learn the ways if DCC.

Good luck!

 

[diburning]

Mine was DCC ready, but had the pickup on the frame weight. I'd advise against using 12-volt bulbs. 12 volt bulbs run hot enough to melt your shell (I learned the hard way with an older Kato RS-3, which came with a stock 12-volt bulb on the board which promptly melted a hole in the shell when I ran it around for a while at full speed)

 

[lmackattack]

I never had a 12-14 bulb burn a hole in the plastic but thats not to say it wont.
Often I adjust the CV setting to get the correct lamp brightness for each loco. I used LEDs in one of my P2K locos and the head light looked better but the light boards were way to bright In my opinion.

 

[EHodges]

Replies

I appreciate all the replies from you guys. To answer a few of the questions you posted back on.
1. I did replace the front wheel gears with Athearns gears. I belong to a club here and one of the member that has been in trains for 30+ years helped me out replacing them.
2. The Blue Box Proto 2000 engine did say DCC ready. I bought the appropriate decoder for it and left the yellow tape so the frame would not short out the decoder. We had it hooked up last Thursday and set the engine up and it ran on the test track. No problems was encountered. I took it out last night (2nd time even being on the test track) and it wouldnt do anything. Went through the settings on the computer and everything looked good. Once we switched from program mode to main line there was a hissing from the rear of the engine and nothing worked. We checked the decoder with a tester and it wasnt doing anything. I tried it with the original DC board that it came with and nothing happened. Finally one time only we saw a spark come from where the orange wire goes behind the motor. WHen putting the engine back in the box I found the front light had came loose and fell out of the engine and broke when it hit the floor. Looked like one wire was holding it on. I want to get this running so I can learn on this cheaper engine before putting some nice money in a good engine. Does Walthers cost an arm and a leg to get an engine fixed. This was brand new in the box when I got it and since then one 2 minute test run and thats it.

As soon as I sell my RC Helicopter I plan on getting some nice engines and nice box cars.

If you guys have any ideas please shoot them my way.

Eric

 

[EHodges]

Walthers

Just got off the phone with Walthers and I was told it would cost me a $10 return shipping cost and a $45 repair cost. Well considering I paid $50 brand new for it I think that is a total waste of time. Might be looking for another locomotive soon.

Eric

 

[zgardner18]

Just got off the phone with Walthers and I was told it would cost me a $10 return shipping cost and a $45 repair cost. Well considering I paid $50 brand new for it I think that is a total waste of time. Might be looking for another locomotive soon.

Eric

Eric,

See if anyone at your club would be cool and fix it for you. I'm sure some person around can do it for just parts.

Like everyone else, I feel your pain. I purchased a P2K GP30 and GP 38-2 in Santa Fe. When I got them the GP30 also had cracked gears, and the 38-2 only ran backwards. both of them run crappy too and in take too much power and bad delayed start time. I know I can fix them right but I haven't even had the chance to get involved and honestly I am putting it off as much as I can.

These are not the only P2K units that i own. All of my 3 axle engines (SD45, SD50, SD60M) all run great with no problems at all. Its these 2 axle units that are killing me.

 

[Selector]

I look at the hobby this way, and it is strictly my choice to do so:

Firstly, I want to be in the hobby, and I am prepared to approach it responsibly, with some emotion, and with some output in time, money, and effort. Learning something as I go would always be a bonus. Profiting from my learning would be another bonus.

Secondly, I do not have a large collection with five of 35 different types of locomotives. Some guys have three times that much. Instead, I select from a few that are available, and try to limit my purchases to one-of-a-kind for a given locomotive...at least for the present. I really don't want to be a hoarder, I want identified engines and to enjoy running them...which I can't do more than one unless they are consisted diesels or doubled steam. So far, only one of each kind of engine but for one single exception: 2 SD75M from Genesis in the Santa Fe warbonnet red and silver.

This all means that if I receive a defective engine, or cause an engine to need repairs, I repair them. Yes, it may mean the odd time I'll end up paying about the same cost as its original purchase when all is said and returned to me functional, but that is the price of being in the hobby if you can't/won't repair them yourself. And I tend to purchase from dealers, and not individuals. Even in the one case where I wanted a BLI J Class 4-8-4, and purchased a "stealth" model that was a non-decodered Paragon from an individual who sold heavily on eBay, BLI honored it as a NIB purchase and repaired it for the cost of shipping it to them. That added $20 to the cost of the purchase, but my point is that I was returned a working engine that I really wanted. Again, it is the only J I have. If you want X loco, and they get a bit scarce, you do what you must to enjoy it. It's a fact of life in any undertaking in any field or pursuit.

So, my suggestion here is to consider it either as a learning experience and somewhat of a loss, or fix it within a reasonable cost, up to the loss of any potential enjoyment for you.

It isn't always easy being in this one hobby. There are some very frustrating moments to be had. And it ain't cheap!

Crandell

 

[EHodges]

Feedback

I enjoy all the feedback and this is a good place to do it. Here is where I am coming from. I flew RC helicopters for over 11 years. In that time I have spent alot of money flying and maintaing them. At no time did a simple repair cost as must as that helicopter did.
I did choose this hobby cause I cannot fly anymore. I dont mind the money but as in every other hobby in the world why can I not buy parts for these. I have been told I have to go through Walthers to get these problems repaired. I might as well scrap that engine, get another and use the scrapped one for parts.
I enjoy the hobby I just dont like the way I have started out. I bought the cheaper engine to start out with and in a weeks time the engine is dead and fried my decoder and I have not ran the engine yet. You can take the shell off the engine and see it has little run time on it. I have learned to keep my receipts for this hobby. Once my last heli sells I will have a good amount of money to get me some really nice engines and I will not be back to Proto 2000 engines at all. Walthers may have lost my business as well.
Eric

 

[EHodges]

Progress made

Well took the locomotive apart last night and I found the wire that was grounding out. What a great job Proto 2000 did of taping the wire so it would not touch the frame. It has clearly went through the tape and was resting on the frame. I used a heavier tape and resecured the clamp that was soldered. I have no way to check it but I hope that didnt kill my decoder. I will test it tonight or tomorrow at the club and see whats up with it.

Eric

 

[bnsf971]

Not that it's that important, but list price on a Proto GP30 is between $100-$110. You pretty much got it for half price, so even if you send it back and pay what Walthers wants to fix it, you'll still only be out the cost of the locomotive.

Something to think about is picking up a couple of Athearn Blue Box locomotive kits, and learning how they go together, and how to fix them yourself. They're pretty simple, and still relatively cheap to buy. I'm sure you didn't send your choppers back to the manufacturer for repair, you did it yourself. There are decoders with all the hardware to make them DCC as well.

 

[ray46]

Well took the locomotive apart last night and I found the wire that was grounding out. What a great job Proto 2000 did of taping the wire so it would not touch the frame. It has clearly went through the tape and was resting on the frame. I used a heavier tape and resecured the clamp that was soldered. I have no way to check it but I hope that didnt kill my decoder. I will test it tonight or tomorrow at the club and see whats up with it.

Eric

I don't pretend to know everything but I haven't found any tape on the wiring of my Proto2000 locos so the obvious question is, "Who told you the loco was new in the box?" "The person who sold it to you?" Don't get down on the hobby of model railroading because of a bad experience. I doubt that you would determine to never have anything to do with your favorite baseball or football team because they blew a game. So in any experience whether it's a hobby, auto repair, appliance purchase, etc., it's good to remember, "Buyer beware."

Ray

 

[EHodges]

Buyer

The good news is the guy I got the trains from is a person who buys out hobby stores that are failing. He has something like 20,000 trains items or more and about 200,000 model cars, airplanes, helis, and boats. The guys has told me that if I bring it back he will get it back up and going for me. After last night and what I found all I need now is the front light to be replaced and I will hopefully be back up and running. I may need a decoder also but once I check to see if the engine is working now then I can check it with the decoder installed. I will post findings.

Last night I found a metal clip under the engine with the orange wire soldered to it. There was a piece of tape under that clip keeping it from grounding on the frame. The solder had made a small hole in the tape and was grounding on the frame. I fixed that issue and now I need to check out my decoder tonight and see if that is working or not.

Eric

 

[lmackattack]

ray

all of my early P2K units have a clear like pice of tape under the motor to prvent it from grounding out. Its not a taped wire just a small pice of tape that is placed over the metal frame where the lower motor wire lead /tab is

 

[EHodges]

tape

That is the tape I have been talking about. The little tape that was talked about had a small hole that caused the wire to ground out on the frame. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the decoder is not fried. I guess we will see very soon.

Eric