Motor measurements for old Athearns.

[ChevelleSSguy]

Is there is list out there somewhere that has the measurements of older Athearn locomotive motors? Width, length, shaft length and diameter and what not? I would like to improve a roster of BB units and not sure where to start with this upgrade. I really dont feel like springing 50 bucks a loco just to do this. I was hoping I could just get the motors and swap them only. Perhaps this wont be possible?

 

[UP2CSX]

I've never seen such a list but there were really only two types of older motors, the ones made for switchers and the ones made for road units. Until the introduction of the hex drive and smaller motors for hood units, the motors and drivetrains were the same for about 40 years. Do your BB units have flywheels? If not, the Athearn #84030 is for switchers and the 84040 is for hood and F units. If they have flywheels, the 84048 should be the right one for switchers and the 84086 should work for other locomotives.

 

[CBCNSfan]

there were really only two types of older motors, the ones made for switchers and the ones made for road units.

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The old switcher motor

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The older BB loco motor

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The one found in later BB models and seems to be the same as in the Hex drive Locos


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I believe this one is a hex drive but I'm not positive

Cheers
Willis

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

I still have to dig them out and start popping off shells to see what they all have. If this puts anything in perspective for you guys. I got them all in the early and mid 1990s so they arent really that old. Although, I did grab 3 BN SW1500 switchers last fall from Atlas when they were doing that 20 dollar deal.

Can I just buy the proper motor and swap over my flywheels and install them? I would rather buy a 25 dollar can motor then a 50 dollar swap kit.

These are all nearly brand new with very little run time. Many no run time at all. I plan to tune them up but appearantly the stock motors, even when well tuned, still need regular maintenance vs. a can motor.

 

[diburning]

the stock motors are can motors.

Also, Willis left out a second rubber band drive motor. The ones used in RDCs are different in that they have a larger brass colored can motor with drive shafts that stick out and are supported by the frame which turn the rubber bands.

I like how Athearn's can motors have an open frame so that you can take out the contacts, springs, and brushes to clean them as well as being able to clean the armature. With a good cleaning and a good lube job on the gears, Athearn blue box engines will run really well.

 

[Beachbum]

Did you Google Athearn tune-ups? There are a couple of good sites that tell you in detail how to get BBs to run better. Not sure how well it would work with mid-90s units and I haven't tried anything myself although I do have several mid-90s engines. Might be worth a try before you invest in remotoring...

 

[CBCNSfan]

These are all nearly brand new with very little run time. Many no run time at all. I plan to tune them up but appearantly the stock motors, even when well tuned, still need regular maintenance vs. a can motor.

Well the first thing I have to ask "What is the problem you are trying to correct?"
Are you going to use DC or DCC to run them?
Most problems with Athearn BB locos are not with the motor itself.

I still have to dig them out and start popping off shells to see what they all have. If this puts anything in perspective for you guys. I got them all in the early and mid 1990s so they arent really that old.

well no unless they've sat on a shelf for a long time, best to pop the shells to see what you have, hopefully they are all like the motors in the bottom two photos. Brass flywheels are the tip off
The biggest problems withe the Athearn BB locos are (1) Electrical contact from the trucks to the motor (2) The rubber motor mounts can and sometimes do, allow the motor to move, this will cause binding on the drive shafts and noise and the problems together will cause poor running characteristics.
Photo 1 points of electrical contact Photo 2 shows the cure
In photo 1 note the brass screws where the rubber used to stick through. There are two strips of plastic cemented to the frame the screws hold the motor to the plastic. The motor is now lower (reducing drive shaft angle) and is fixed in position no movement.
Points "A" and "B" show poor electrical contact (contact by friction)
Photo 2 Shows the wires coming directly from the trucks. One wire is grounded to the frame the other to the clip on top of the motor. The ground lead from the motor is soldered to a post in the frame. The lead can be removed from the frame for conversion to DCC. That's as far as I go. In the future I may replace the sintered wheel sets.
Now (my opinion only, others may or may not agree and it's not meant to discourage you) if you really want a real smooth loco you can get a can motor, new balanced flywheels, new steel wheels to replace the sintered ones and you'll have a Blue box wide body loco you've spent a fortune on. In that case it may be better to sell them on eBay and upgrade by purchasing better quality Locos.
BTW the vast majority of my locos are Blue Box Athearns
Cheers
Willis

 

[CBCNSfan]

Also, Willis left out a second rubber band drive motor.

On Edit: Guess I should have read that closer the ones in the F8's would most likely be similar, don't have any of those
LOL have another look at the top one guess I should have said the rubber bands were missing. There's a gear drive set for these now, I don't think it too expensive. I was going to get one but I have too many irons in the fire now.
I saw some F7 units with the rubber band drive have no interest in those. I'll most likely scrap the ones with the steel flywheels but first I'll have to determine the stall current just in case they are usable.

Cheers
Willis

 

[wheeler1963]

And the newer Athearn BB switcher motors.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

the stock motors are can motors.

Also, Willis left out a second rubber band drive motor. The ones used in RDCs are different in that they have a larger brass colored can motor with drive shafts that stick out and are supported by the frame which turn the rubber bands.

I like how Athearn's can motors have an open frame so that you can take out the contacts, springs, and brushes to clean them as well as being able to clean the armature. With a good cleaning and a good lube job on the gears, Athearn blue box engines will run really well.

Did you Google Athearn tune-ups? There are a couple of good sites that tell you in detail how to get BBs to run better. Not sure how well it would work with mid-90s units and I haven't tried anything myself although I do have several mid-90s engines. Might be worth a try before you invest in remotoring...

Well actually, thats how I got to thinking about this whole thing. Reading a few Athearn tune up pages and there are some recommendations to just install a can motor like Segami or Mashima because even after a well tuned stock unit. They are still somewhat high maintenance. Now, how high maintenance that really is I dont know. One article says every few weeks, given it depends on how much use that unit gets. I guess my thought if its going to be a pain in the you know what in upkeep then the heck with it IMO. Ill put new motors in.

Now, if its going to cost me 30 dollars plus for each locomotive to prevent that. Forget it. I already plan to use the tune up how-to that is on NMRAs website to inprove performance.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

I forgot to mention. The wheels on these units are steel from what I have read. And it makes sense too. I have one geep that I have used several times and one of the wheels on the front truck is pitted. I always kept the track as clean as I could. The NMRA article suggests to install nikel silver wheelsets from someone like NWSL. Thats an upgrade I could live with if I need to.

 

[CBCNSfan]

The flywheels on the BB Athearns are not balanced, they are just rotating weights. Just putting in a can motor may not give you the results you are looking for. But in any case it will be an improvement over the stock loco.

Cheers
Willis

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

Well they dont do very well with low torque and low speed with DCC do they?

 

[wheeler1963]

I have several Athearn BB switchers that are hard wired and DCC'ed. They will crawl at very low speeds. The Athearn BB engines are good runners, as long as you hard wire them, keep the wheels clean, and do a proper break in on them. Sometimes they get a bad wrap.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

I have several Athearn BB switchers that are hard wired and DCC'ed. They will crawl at very low speeds. The Athearn BB engines are good runners, as long as you hard wire them, keep the wheels clean, and do a proper break in on them. Sometimes they get a bad wrap.

Good deal then. Keeping the wheels clean will probably be the toughest part. I found they dont like to stay clean very long. Probably due to the track and the fact they are steel wheels on nikel silver track.

 

[wheeler1963]

Good deal then. Keeping the wheels clean will probably be the toughest part. I found they dont like to stay clean very long. Probably due to the track and the fact they are steel wheels on nikel silver track.

Wheels are pretty easy to keep clean using a paper towel and a little alcohol. Wet the paper towel, lay it on the track, hold the engine in place as the wheels turn over the towel, done in 0 seconds as they say!! LOL Also, use a Q-tip with alcohol on the motor where the brushes touch it. I do this by hand, cleans them right up, give it a couple of minutes for the alcohol to dry. Done deal.

 

[ICG/SOU]

If you have some sentimental attachment to a particular locomotive, or it is heavily detailed, then it may be worth upgrading.

Example: For upgrading an Athearn Blue Box GP38-2, you can still go out and purchase a brand new Athearn RTR GP38-2, and switch shells. You can then sell the shell here or on ebay to recover some of the cost.

I have an ICG9632 (GP38-2) that I bought in 1989 or so. I bought a new RTR GP38-2, thinking it would be easier to DCC with the new drive and all. Well, I found out that the 1989-era frame and motor still worked fine, and with replacing some cracked gears, it runs well too.

The big thing, I think is the amperage issue. If you want to run on DCC and the existing motor draws too many amps, then you'll need to replace the motor. The older Athearn can motors were silver colored, while the newer ones are brass colored. The newer motors draw less amps than the older ones.

Unless the drive train is damaged or bent, you shouldn't have to replace it. I would think, though, of replacing the wheelsets eventually.

Pop off the shell, clean any gunked up lube. Clean the motor, clean the wheelsets, lube the moving parts that need it, hard wire it (even if you're keeping it DC).

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

If you have some sentimental attachment to a particular locomotive, or it is heavily detailed, then it may be worth upgrading.

Example: For upgrading an Athearn Blue Box GP38-2, you can still go out and purchase a brand new Athearn RTR GP38-2, and switch shells. You can then sell the shell here or on ebay to recover some of the cost.

I have an ICG9632 (GP38-2) that I bought in 1989 or so. I bought a new RTR GP38-2, thinking it would be easier to DCC with the new drive and all. Well, I found out that the 1989-era frame and motor still worked fine, and with replacing some cracked gears, it runs well too.

The big thing, I think is the amperage issue. If you want to run on DCC and the existing motor draws too many amps, then you'll need to replace the motor. The older Athearn can motors were silver colored, while the newer ones are brass colored. The newer motors draw less amps than the older ones.

Unless the drive train is damaged or bent, you shouldn't have to replace it. I would think, though, of replacing the wheelsets eventually.

Pop off the shell, clean any gunked up lube. Clean the motor, clean the wheelsets, lube the moving parts that need it, hard wire it (even if you're keeping it DC).

No sentimental attachment. Well, I should say there is maybe a little attachment. Some of these locos are a little on the collector side now probably. But I plan to run them and not sit on a shelf. I also plan to pick up detailing kits and pretty them all up too.

As for the amperage draw. That was my exact concern as well. But from the tune up articles and how-tos I have read on this. You can bring down the amperage it takes to get these to run quite a bit.

I wont have to worry about much gunked up lube and debris on them. I have about 15-20 locomotives and all accept for one have no run time on them. The only one that I have ran is the only one I spent time installing and painting the handrails on and drilling and tapping the frame to install a coupler.

Which reminds me. These cant be MUed together without either isolating the motor from the chassis or isolating the coupler correct? Otherwise they short out.

 

[CBCNSfan]

Well they dont do very well with low torque and low speed with DCC do they?

Haven't got around to putting a decoder in mine yet, but they do run at a very slow speed on DC.
Most of the Athearn jerkiness at low speed is caused by poor alignment of the drive shafts and when binding a bit the motor moves causing an unsatisfactory slow speed response.
Get rid of those rubber mounts they are a very high percentage of the Athearn's problems. Gettibg rid of the rubber mounts lowers the motor for better alignment of the drive shafts. Secure the motor so it can't flop around. Screws or Cement it in.

Cheers
Willis