clayguthrie
Member
I see a lot of mixed "brand" engines on trains around here, but being a railfan newb i don't know why that is... For example a NS freight with a UP or BNSF engine in its consist. What is the reason for that?
Mixed Engine Consists
- Thread starter clayguthrie
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happens ever so often. There was a amtrak train being pulled by a UP heritage engine no so long ago. I've seen dozens of video's where the BNSF has loaned an engine to amtrak to get the train to its destination due ot mechanical issues. Hell there were pics of an amtrak P42 assisting NS as a pusher on the rear of a mixed freight in the mid atlantic several years ago. NS needed help getting over a mountain and the amtrak train had spare power on it.
Even NJ Transit has had this happen, Cab car crapped out and they needed to get to hoboken. NS sent up a Dash 8 still in CR blue to pull it into Hoboken Terminal.
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diburning
AlcoHaulic
Contract trains and run-through power.
Contract trains are where some trains originate at a certain point, and terminate on a certain point, but need to operate over more than one railroad.
For example, the RailEx produce train originates in Seattle, WA and is hauled by Union Pacific. Its destination is the RailEx facility at Schenectady, NY, which is on CSX. The train is contracted to run express as a unit train so Union Pacific provides the engines. When the train is interchanged to CSX in Chicago, CSX picks up the train, engines and all and brings the train to Schenectady.
Another example would be Norfolk Southern train 22K. It originates in Chicago, IL, and terminates in Ayer, MA. It operates from Chicago, IL to Glenville, NY under Norfolk Southern. It is a Norfolk Southern train that needs to operate over multiple railroads to get to its destination. At Mohawk Yard in Glenville, the train is split, with one section going to the Delaware and Hudson (Canadian Pacific) and the other section for Ayer, MA. The Ayer, MA section is taken by the D&H to Mechanicville, NY where Pan Am Railways picks it up with the NS provided engines still on the train. (It doesn't always run with NS engines, it runs with whatever NS puts on the train in Chicago. I'll explain more in the second part). The train is still an NS train, but is now operated by a Springfield Terminal (Pan Am Railways) crew.
Trains are operated this way because when the train is interchanged, all that needs to be done is a quick refuel and crew change, and the train is on the way. There would be no need to swap engines which would take extra time and tie up resources (the host railroad may or may not be able to spare the engines needed to run the train)
Another way that foreign engines can enter another railroad is similar to the above, but the contract to keep the engines on the train is different. The railroads operate on a horsepower hours agreement. For example, CSX's train Q426 and Q427 run from Selkirk, NY to Portland, ME. However, to get to Portland, ME, the train has to travel over Pan Am Railways. CSX provides the engines from Selkirk, and the train is interchanged at Worcester, MA. Pan Am takes the train, engines and all to Ayer, MA where they cut off certain cars, then takes the train to Portland, ME. The agreement is where Pan Am would owe CSX horsepower hours for using the engines on Pan Am's railroad. Pan Am would have to send a locomotive or two to work on CSX to repay the horsepower hours.
While horsepower hours are being exchanged, the engines can be sent to other railroads, or work whatever job the railroad wants.
For example, Pan Am had a grain train last year where the engines were provided by Union Pacfic, but the engines were Ferromex engines repaying horsepower hours to UP.
When Pan Am sends CSX GP40s to repay horsepower hours, they get put into local service (and take forever to repay the hours since they would be used infrequently). When Pan Am sends SD40-2s, they can pay off horsepower hours faster as CSX would have a better use for them in road freights.
While the contracts can differ, most contracts dictate that while the engine is on a foreign railroad, the foreign railroad is responsible for all maintenance and fuel.
A few years ago, Pan Am was paying back horsepower hours to CSX with a GP40. It was wrecked while on CSX, so CSX had to send them a new (used) GP40. This GP40 was ex-LN (I think) and is the only standard GP40 (now numbered MEC 381) on Pan Am with nose headlights. Same thing happened on NS. NS wrecked MEC 375, a high hood GP40, and NS replaced it with another high hood GP40 (now MEC 382). It is now the only GP40 on Pan Am with NS numberboards, and high mounted flashing front and rear ditch lights.
Contract trains are where some trains originate at a certain point, and terminate on a certain point, but need to operate over more than one railroad.
For example, the RailEx produce train originates in Seattle, WA and is hauled by Union Pacific. Its destination is the RailEx facility at Schenectady, NY, which is on CSX. The train is contracted to run express as a unit train so Union Pacific provides the engines. When the train is interchanged to CSX in Chicago, CSX picks up the train, engines and all and brings the train to Schenectady.
Another example would be Norfolk Southern train 22K. It originates in Chicago, IL, and terminates in Ayer, MA. It operates from Chicago, IL to Glenville, NY under Norfolk Southern. It is a Norfolk Southern train that needs to operate over multiple railroads to get to its destination. At Mohawk Yard in Glenville, the train is split, with one section going to the Delaware and Hudson (Canadian Pacific) and the other section for Ayer, MA. The Ayer, MA section is taken by the D&H to Mechanicville, NY where Pan Am Railways picks it up with the NS provided engines still on the train. (It doesn't always run with NS engines, it runs with whatever NS puts on the train in Chicago. I'll explain more in the second part). The train is still an NS train, but is now operated by a Springfield Terminal (Pan Am Railways) crew.
Trains are operated this way because when the train is interchanged, all that needs to be done is a quick refuel and crew change, and the train is on the way. There would be no need to swap engines which would take extra time and tie up resources (the host railroad may or may not be able to spare the engines needed to run the train)
Another way that foreign engines can enter another railroad is similar to the above, but the contract to keep the engines on the train is different. The railroads operate on a horsepower hours agreement. For example, CSX's train Q426 and Q427 run from Selkirk, NY to Portland, ME. However, to get to Portland, ME, the train has to travel over Pan Am Railways. CSX provides the engines from Selkirk, and the train is interchanged at Worcester, MA. Pan Am takes the train, engines and all to Ayer, MA where they cut off certain cars, then takes the train to Portland, ME. The agreement is where Pan Am would owe CSX horsepower hours for using the engines on Pan Am's railroad. Pan Am would have to send a locomotive or two to work on CSX to repay the horsepower hours.
While horsepower hours are being exchanged, the engines can be sent to other railroads, or work whatever job the railroad wants.
For example, Pan Am had a grain train last year where the engines were provided by Union Pacfic, but the engines were Ferromex engines repaying horsepower hours to UP.
When Pan Am sends CSX GP40s to repay horsepower hours, they get put into local service (and take forever to repay the hours since they would be used infrequently). When Pan Am sends SD40-2s, they can pay off horsepower hours faster as CSX would have a better use for them in road freights.
While the contracts can differ, most contracts dictate that while the engine is on a foreign railroad, the foreign railroad is responsible for all maintenance and fuel.
A few years ago, Pan Am was paying back horsepower hours to CSX with a GP40. It was wrecked while on CSX, so CSX had to send them a new (used) GP40. This GP40 was ex-LN (I think) and is the only standard GP40 (now numbered MEC 381) on Pan Am with nose headlights. Same thing happened on NS. NS wrecked MEC 375, a high hood GP40, and NS replaced it with another high hood GP40 (now MEC 382). It is now the only GP40 on Pan Am with NS numberboards, and high mounted flashing front and rear ditch lights.
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cv_acr
Well-Known Member
Yep, Eric's got some good examples. To simplify and summarize:
There will often be certain trains or situations where engines "run through" or are pooled.*
To balance the time the engines from Railroad A spend on Railroad B, RR B will loan engines to RR A for a period of time to repay "Horsepower-Hours".
* As another for example, for years Canadian Pacific and Union Pacific have been pooling power on specific unit trains out west that run from Canada into the U.S. These trains pretty much always run with a mix of CP and UP power.
There will often be certain trains or situations where engines "run through" or are pooled.*
To balance the time the engines from Railroad A spend on Railroad B, RR B will loan engines to RR A for a period of time to repay "Horsepower-Hours".
* As another for example, for years Canadian Pacific and Union Pacific have been pooling power on specific unit trains out west that run from Canada into the U.S. These trains pretty much always run with a mix of CP and UP power.
cv_acr
Well-Known Member
Additionally, one railroad that is short of power might rent engines from another railroad that can perhaps spare them or from leasing companies. This can often be a seasonal sort of thing. (for example extra grain trains are common on CN and CP in the eastern half of Canada starting in the fall with the grain harvest, but also through the winter as the St. Lawrence Seaway which connects the Great Lakes shuts down for the season and grain has to move by rail to Atlantic harbours instead of being able to be loaded at lakehead ports on Lake Superior.)
NYSW F45
Active Member
happens ever so often. There was a amtrak train being pulled by a UP heritage engine no so long ago. I've seen dozens of video's where the BNSF has loaned an engine to amtrak to get the train to its destination due ot mechanical issues. Hell there were pics of an amtrak P42 assisting NS as a pusher on the rear of a mixed freight in the mid atlantic several years ago. NS needed help getting over a mountain and the amtrak train had spare power on it.
Even NJ Transit has had this happen, Cab car crapped out and they needed to get to hoboken. NS sent up a Dash 8 still in CR blue to pull it into Hoboken Terminal.
clayguthrie
Member
Thanks guys that makes a lot of sense now! You see some crazy situations now and again.
I have seen those GATX or GITX leased engines on the UP line at Scott City MO occasionally. I actually thought it was an old ConRail unit until i made it up close. I ask a local guy what it was and he said it was a leasing company.
Thanks again for your guys amazingly detailed explanation!
I have seen those GATX or GITX leased engines on the UP line at Scott City MO occasionally. I actually thought it was an old ConRail unit until i made it up close. I ask a local guy what it was and he said it was a leasing company.
Thanks again for your guys amazingly detailed explanation!
psychobeagle12
Member
I live very near cresson and BNSF is actually a fairly common sight on the main that runs through that area into Johnstown (where I live.) I have seen others too but none come to mind atm...
TrinityJayOne
N gauge fan
Does "pictures" include our model trains? Cos I've certainly got a few of those. 
trailrider
Well-Known Member
Such mixtures of power was not uncommon prior to Amtrak and a bunch of mergers. For example, prior to 1969, between Chicago and Minneapolis, you could have seen silver Burlington E-units pulling the North Coast Ltd or the Empire Builder or perhaps in a consist with the motors of the other two roads. As a matter of fact, you could see green-and-orange, smooth-sided pasenger cars with a C.B.&Q. on the upper right end of the car, and also on the two-tone Northern Pacific cars, where the cars were owned by the "Q". You might also see stainless steel cars labelled "BURLINGTON" that had NP or GN in the corner. Of course the joke there was that the NP and GN jointly owned the "Q" and had interlocking directorships prior to the 1969 "merger". OTOH, the Q and Rock Island jointly ran the Zephyr-Rocket, where you could see Burlington cars pulled by a Rock Island unit. There were other examples back in the day, but it was perhaps less common than today. You might also see a NYC Pullman sleeper tied in the California Zephyr's stainless steel Budd cars.
Burlington Bob
Well-Known Member
Before the mergers or takeovers, depending on your point of view, yeah. Now they are just different paint schemes for the same RR.
Burlington Bob
Well-Known Member
I remember the first time I saw a Southern run-thru on the Beardstown sub headed for Galesburg on the BN back about 1973-74 time frame. The black high-hoods were such a contrast to the usual fare that ran the line. Almost made me think that somebody was going to get fired for a mistake that big!
TrinityJayOne
N gauge fan
[youtube]bghyCdAn9S4[/youtube]
Granted this is mostly BN rainbow era, but there's a few bits & pieces from other RRs in there. A Burlington unit on point for Bob's pleasure 
Granted this is mostly BN rainbow era, but there's a few bits & pieces from other RRs in there.
A Burlington unit on point for Bob's pleasure Engine accrue horsepower hours as long as the engine is in service (working order) whether its being used or not.
So in the example of the GP40's, as long as the engine is able to operate its paying back horsepower hours, whether its on a train or not, standing or moving. A GP40 will pay back hphrs just as fast as an SD40 because they are both 3000 hp.
So in the example of the GP40's, as long as the engine is able to operate its paying back horsepower hours, whether its on a train or not, standing or moving. A GP40 will pay back hphrs just as fast as an SD40 because they are both 3000 hp.
Burlington Bob
Well-Known Member
By TrinityJayOne:
Looks great! Thanks, Pete.A Burlington unit on point for Bob's pleasure
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