Hobby Industry Study


Tell us what you think?

  • I feel like I am getting ripped off!

    Votes: 25 80.6%
  • I don't mind paying 40-50% extra.

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Total voters
    31
THB: Sorry! my wording was bad. I meant that the 40% mentioned was the hobby shop and did not include the other markups in the supply chain.;)

Alan: thanks for the input. Real or not we are stuck with it and do have an adjustment to make. I seldom have paid MSRP, but even so the discount prices now rise accordingly.

Greg: What did you say:eek: ?....just kidding!:D:D
 
THB: Sorry! my wording was bad. I meant that the 40% mentioned was the hobby shop and did not include the other markups in the supply chain.;)
No worries, but I did fully understand what you meant. "Retail" markups only reference the markup from the price they have to pay, which has generally already experienced other markups.
 
I don't pay retail. I shop for discounts and bargains on the internet and train shows. I buy slightly used items. I use DC at home and don't have the added expense of DCC. I pay $4-6 dollars for car kits and $20-60 for locomotives.
JA
 
Some hobby shops I walk in to, the prices are so outrageous that I won't buy a thing, regardless of how much I want it. Still, in others the prices are so low, that it's hard to stop myself from buying bagfuls of supplies and kits. I still believe the two best values are to buy at shows, where prices are already low, and online, from others, where the primary goal of the seller is to get rid of the stuff, and often the price is significantly lower.
 
Retail Mark-up & Distribution

I found this article very interesting in that a Model Railroader was surprised about the retail mark-up within the 40-50% range. Ever since I can remember it has always been this. I also found some of the other responses to this article very interesting.


I am a currently small manufacturer in the Model Railroad Industry and one of the main goals of my company is to keep costs down and provide the highest quality product to customers at a very reasonable price. I also produce my products here within the United States.


Here is how it breaks out basically. A manufacturer prices a product for resale (suggested retail price) and has to take into consideration the 40-50% retail mark-up plus the additional 15-20% that distributors charge for handling their product. Now the net value the manufacturer gets from the suggested retail price is approximately 40% of what the product sells for.


The 40% that the manufacturer gets covers a broad spectrum of what goes into producing that product. Here is an example of what goes into producing a product that is cast for example. First there is product research, product design (engineering), master and or component part creation, mold creation, pre-production casting, master part and or mold modification and re-run of mold(if part does not conform to design), final pre-production of part, proofing of component/product in assembly, assembly instructions, packaging design, packaging of product. Additional costs are that of tooling, raw material inventory, final product inventory, labor, operation overhead and so forth. This is just an example of what that 40% covers.


Now I just recently went to one of the local hobby shops in my area and presented my products to them. They were impressed with the quality of the products stating they were of the highest quality available and that my suggested retail value was below what current products sell for.


I informed them I was not using any distributors and that provided a lower then average cost to the customer. I was then informed that they would not be able to carry my products due to the fact it would create another order process for them to go through other then the distributors they currently deal with. I was amazed at the short sightedness of this.


Even with a computerized inventory system and re-ordering process they could not take the few minutes it would to create another order and place it. On top of that, they didn't even take into consideration of additional unique offerings available to a potential customer and sales from that customer plus added repeat business. They tried to convince me to sell through distributors but I informed them that my pricing would have to rise accordingly and I do not believe I could (being a small manufacturer) could support a possible 10,000 piece order of each product at my current size of operation.


I am not the only manufacturer in this position that has come across this. It happens more frequently then not. The only way this will change is if the Model Railroaders themselves ask their Hobby Shops to carry these products that us small manufacturers produce here in the United States.


Until this happens, my products, and many others, can be purchased through our websites.


Now, it was stated in one response that an individual shuns the Internet as much as possible and then admits he does buy on-line. The Internet will not replace the Local Hobby Shops. In fact many of the Local Hobby Shops have a site on the Internet to sell their products. Another note also is that the costs of an internet based store has a some of the same costs that a regular retail store has in respect to processing orders. Sometimes this cost is even higher for a internet based business. A legitimate operation will have ability to process credit cards on-line, and will carry an SSL Certification for their Secured processing of orders. These certifications do not come cheaply either.


Another thing I find interesting is the Model Airplane Hobby Shops that I know of do buy from independent manufacturers that do not sell through distributors. Interesting how different some philosophies are in yet a very similar type of industry. I do enjoy flying my RC Planes also besides my love of Model Railroading.


I look forward to comments about my response to this article.
 
40% sounds just fine to me... :)
I have a non model railroad business and charge exactly the same markup on materials to pay me for the time it takes to go shopping for them.

There are no hobby shops within 30 miles of my home, so I only shop online, and anjoy being on their email lists for sale items.

Greg
 
Most of those "large profits" are confiscated by the government through high taxes. You know all those people who earn over $250,000 a year that Obama wants to target for even higher taxes, those are the small business owners like hobby retailers. Those high taxes makes it hard for the small business to hire employees, build up stock, and grow their business. And while retail markup is 40-50%, not much actually sells at the higher price. Most stuff sells at only a 20-30% markup. Only small low cost stuff like detail parts sell at the full markup, and actual profit is small due to the low price. And between overhead and taxes, the business owner would be awfully lucky to take home 10% of sales. As with almost any business, the entity making the most "profit" is the government.
 
40%

40% sounds just fine to me... :)
I have a non model railroad business and charge exactly the same markup on materials to pay me for the time it takes to go shopping for them.

There are no hobby shops within 30 miles of my home, so I only shop online, and anjoy being on their email lists for sale items.

Greg

Greg, did you read what the 40% the manufacturer takes in covers??? In a small business the costs associated with producing that product consumes a lot of that 40%. It is not a 40% profit the manufacturer is making in reality once all the costs that are associated to that product are applied.
 
How many of you that are bitching about prices ever owned your own hobby shop? How many of you even ever worked at one? You assume 40-50% markup is the norm, and the owner is getting rich!

Y'all HAVE NO CLUE!!!

I've worked at several shops since the 70's. I OWNED MY OWN shop from 2001 to 2006. I WISH I HAD 40-50% markup!

Reality is 25-40% IF YOU COULD SELL AT MSRP!

OK...out of that, pay rent, utilities, employees, insurance, TAXES, maintance, repairs, cleaning, etc. What have you got left?

OK... now you have to discount stuff becase Joe Willy Rectum comes in and says "So and So online has it for this". So you try best you can, without LOSING money, to match the price.

Then you have YOUR OWN DISTRIBUTORS SELLING THE SAME ITEMS ONLINE FOR LESS THAN YOU CAN BUY IT FROM THEM!!!!

Now how can you compete with that? :mad:

The reality is the LHS is going away. You cannot make a living, let alone a profit in the business as a LHS. Almost everything I made, went back into the business to increase inventory, or pay the bills. I drew a $100 per week salary, (just enough for lunch, beer and cigarettes), and the rest went back to the store. The 40-50% profit is a pipe dream!

Y'all need to support your LHS all you can...next week they might not be there! Where else do you get to hold it, see it, touch it before you buy it? Can you do that online? I don't think so. When you have questions or need help or repairs, will the online store answer them or fix your mistake, usually for free? I doubt it. Can you walk out of the online store with the items you want TODAY? Fat chance!

All that for way less than the suppposed 50% markup y'all are fussing about!

And ya'll complain "Oh, it's a 30 mile drive to the hobby shop". But you'll drive 60 miles to go eat at a fancy restaurant, or play golf, or go fishing, etc!

Man, some of y'all really need to get a clue!

I'll get off my soapbox now, and go back to my padded room!

Rotor
 
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Rotor, I absolutely agree with you.

Working in retail, the place that I work for has a 40% markup on the items (it's a supermarket, not a hobby store) and they still managed to have a negative 6% company-wide average profit margin last year with wages, benefits, utilities, and leases factored in.

When I buy from the LHS, I get a 20-30% discount. The distributor gives the LHS a 40% "discount" from MSRP. So, the LHS makes PEANUTS on what they sell. To make up for it, they sell in volume (they have a standard 20-30% markdown on their items, and they tend to order stuff that's on sale/half price at their distributor to pass on the savings to the customer). Trust me, every time I go to that LHS, I walk out with more cars than I can carry! (Athearn RTR tank cars for 12 bucks a piece!)
 
I'm more into instant gratification, which requires local purchases. On the other hand, most of what attracts my attention was yesterdays news last decade and can only be found in a store that hasn't changed much in the last 40 years or so.
 
I really don't believe most MR's have a problem with a 40% profit margin by a hobby shop; it's the overall profit margin from China to the store shelf and the resulting retail price. Justified or not, prices have been increasing by questionable high percentages per year on many items.

Are the financial problems of the LHS any different than other small businesses. Look how many have closed their doors because they can't compete with huge mega-stores/corp. that buy in quantities of thousands.

Complain? You don't have to own or work at a retail business to complain of high prices nor do you have to know the ends and outs of the overhead involved. It is the consumers right to complain with hope of checking price increases and to shop where their dollar can produce the best results. Do we not complain about gas prices? do we not fill-up where the price is the lowest? What about the neighborhood gas station on the corner that has been closed for years. WE didn't help him out, did we.

Since I last posted on this thread, I have ask several dozen MR's if they could afford to start new in this hobby. All replied that if they even could start, it would be at a much smaller scale. Doesn't sound good does it?
 
Rex you are absolutelty correct...

I originally posted to the first thread on this subject. I never criticized the LHS or begrudge them of the profit they make or don't make. Some think I have. I only broke out where all the costs go since others were harping on the profits they think everyone is making when they are not.

The one thing I hope is that one day these LHS would consider ordering from the smaller manufacturers that produce high quality products and can support their store requirements besides dealing with just the distributors only.

That is all, no more..
 
Rex you are absolutelty correct...

I originally posted to the first thread on this subject. I never criticized the LHS or begrudge them of the profit they make or don't make. Some think I have. I only broke out where all the costs go since others were harping on the profits they think everyone is making when they are not.

The one thing I hope is that one day these LHS would consider ordering from the smaller manufacturers that produce high quality products and can support their store requirements besides dealing with just the distributors only.

That is all, no more..

I never had any issues with ordering from small cottage industry manufacturers that weren't in the distributor network. If it was something I needed, or a customer wanted, no problem.

One gripe I did have was some manufacturers would only sell direct at the same standard 40% discount, even when they sold direct, bypassing the distributor!

Also the distributors selling online at prices less than they sold the same items to their dealer!

It's a tough world when your own suppliers are cutting your throat.

Rotor
 
What hurts (I work in a shop) is that people hold onto their money for a train show, and blow all their cash with an out of town company (Spring Creek comes to mind) and then come to us for either DCC install or sound (which is what we do). They do so because they can get a few bucks off on a new loco, and I understand that.

We'd make more money if we shut our doors and just did installs only, and have a web presence. However, we're in it to have a nice shop, where people will want to buy from us as well as create a place for model railroaders to enjoy going to.
 
It's one thing to say the cost of manufacturing is up but to also make an even bigger profit means we are definitely getting reamed.
 
so buy the stuff at the lower price online
Yeah, that's why he's no longer in business, everybody did.
At the hobby shop I had an interest in, our standard discount was 40%, and an additional 10% of the discounted price if we paid our bill promptly. So, our maximum discount was about 46% off MSRP.
Then, for example (and this happened to us), Life Like and Walthers have a 70% off sale to the general public. When we closed, we still had a ton of GP20's and Mathers stock car kits we couldn't sell for 15% under our cost, because people could still buy it cheaper direct from the manufacturer/distributor. How long do you think your local Ford dealer would stay in business if Ford started selling new F150's for half price, direct to the consumer?
 



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