Help with my first layout


E

EToreo

New Member
Hi guys. So I have this large room in my house that I am doing nothing with. I have always loved model railroads and would like to use the room to make my own. It is not the case that I am made of money, so I was going to do one table at a time. Especially the first table, because I will have to inure the cost of my DCC setup too.

My main question is about elevation gain. (I would love for my railroad to have at least one level of elevation.) I have done a lot of reading here and it seems that I need to keep the grade absolutely no higher than 2%. I have included a picture of the room's layout that I would like to use (however if someone has a better idea I would be interested in hearing it).

If I am limited to one table to start, it would seem that enough elevation gain to have one train pass over another (4"?) is not an option. I can live with that, but would like to plan for a future where this is possible. I don't mind having track on my first table that is not used.

I would like opinions for the best way to find the elevation gain in a visually appealing layout in the space I have. My best idea is to have tables 3 and 4 do the work. Where the first inch is found on table 3, the second inch is found on table 4, then a 180 turn to find the 3rd inch again on table 4 and the 4th and final inch on table 3. This would leave tables 1 and 2 with a multi level layout. My concern is that I am wasting lots of space with that idea, basically doing nothing with tables 3 and 4. I envision a few industries on those tables, lumber and some mines, but that might not make up for it?

Any advice would be much appreciated,
~Eric

P.S. The closet area can't really be used. It's the entire width of the room, but has walls on either side making little cubbyholes where the top part of table 1 is and table 3 is. I don't care if I can't get to that space, but I can't use it for layout because no one would see the trains.
 
the only issue I see is that those tables may limit your reach in the corners? It might not seam important now but when you have to put a knee on the layout to reach the back sides you will regret it. trust me!!!

also that closet space will be needed at some point are you 100% sure you want to block it off? could you put in removable bridge spans there that you could take out to access a good part of the closet? I think 2 nice long bridges would work and look good at the same time. or you cold use the entrace as the removable bridge part.

it looks like you can easly get a grade on that space. I like to keep the grades on the middle to back side of the layout so that I can see everthing in front of it. 2% is plenty ok for the space you have.

trent
 
You have plenty of run to make a 4" rise using tables 2 and 3. On table 1, you do not have enough run to keep a 2% grade for a 4" climb. As Trent said, the first issue you need solve is reach access. You are going to have areas with more than a 6' reach, which will not work without an overhead creeper or a pop-up. I guess I'd question why you need each section so wide. It's more space to cover with scenery where nothing will really be going on. Three foot wide tables will still give you plenty of room for track and scenery but make it easier to reach everything and save on the scenery budget.
 
Updated Layout

Thanks for the advice guys. It really is appreciated.

I have revised my layout keeping in mind that I will not be able to reach some of the areas if I kept 4x8 tables. (I originally chose 4x8 because they sounded the easiest to make.) About the closet, I can duck under the table if I ever need to get back there.

I think I would like to use Table 4 to start climbing, and then use table 2 to do the rest. That leaves Tables 3 and 5 with multi level options for tack layout. In this layout I see a "mountain" running down table 2 into the back wall. This would leave tunnel options for going under (from table 4 to table 5), a climbing option on table 2, and also a double track parameter around table 2. Is what I am thinking clear? Do you think it will work well and look good?

Thank you for your continued advice,
~Eric
 
If you are really big and tall, figure your max reach is 30."

I also suggest reading my Beginner's Guide to Layout Design" (below). It takes about 5 minutes and might save you some problems.
 
Thanks for the advice Mouse. I really enjoyed reading your Beginners Guide. I will take my time setting this up for sure.

Do you think that making Tables 4 and 5 only 2 feet deep will help with the reach problem? I am afraid I will loose too much space if I am not careful and will be unable to make a visually appealing layout on the back wall (where tables 4 and 5 are).
 
To get the maximum layout space I would start with 30" around the perimeter and a 5 foot wide peninsula in the center. To give even more functionality to it, you could put a lift out bridge in the door area to complete a circuit.

If you are designing this in phases, it is helpful to think of the construction in phases rather than tables. The first phase could be the peninsula, 5 ft wide to the wall, a complete layout in itself. You would design the track up to or close to the edge of the layout where it can attach to the next phase. Each time you add a new phase you increase functionality.

I would advise against trying to get your crossover in the first phase as would take all of your layout to achieve it and track on a grade does not lead to any kind of switching. Instead use the entire run of one of the two legs to make you climb and the other leg to make your descent. That way you will have room to add sidings here and there to give your railroad a sense of purpose.

Don't forget staging. More railroads get torn down because of lack of staging than just about anything I know.

What is staging and why do I need it?
 
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Your latest only has 3 foot sections on the ends. If you're trying to turn around you won't have enough room unless you're running N scale.
 
Thanks again SpaceMouse, for an informative read and constructive feedback.

Hamltnblue brings up an excellent point that will only get worse if the parameter is shortened to 30". Would "bulging" the end of those tables work? I would need to cut off a triangular section of the peninsula to allow for the bulge in table 3.

I am hesitant to create a lift-able bridge because I would like to operate DCC without having to buy controllers that can operate on non-powered sections of track. Is there a way around this? If so, a full parameter would be sweet...
 
You really need to think outside the box so to speak. I see an island in the middle to start with then going to the wall just right of the door. Along the walls you can go 30 inches 36 tops. Proceed to the closet area leaving plenty of room for access go right but only to an aisle you leave to access the closet and the layout. Anyway dont tie yourself up to one idea. Thats my 2 pennys worth.
 
Hi,

I'd recommend building a 3-D cardboard model of the layout. I got the idea from Dave Frary and it really helped me a lot.

Image696626812_01.gif


You might try several. They're sorta fun to build.

http://www.trainweb.org/silversanjuan/page2.html

Have fun,
 
All track sections need to be powered--even lift out bridges. There are several ways to do this from plug jacks to contact points on the end of the bridges. But don't worry about that in the design stage.

You can get continuous run either by putting bulb outs on the end forming a dog-bone layout or by using a lift out bridge. A dog-bone tends to be difficult to pull off without having trains running through the same scene on two different tracks. It's very hard to make it make sense.

On the other hand, running a loop keeps it more real and allows for continuous running. You don't necessarily need to complete the loop while you are operating.

You notice I'm talking about this in terms of operating. Very few people are able to maintain boredom free running just by making trains go. You need a purpose to the railroad so that you are constantly learning and growing with your pike. Some people do it by modeling, or constantly making their scenery more attractive. Most of the people I know who have layout like this spend most of their time building and very little time running.

On the other hand if you model what a railroad does, then what keeps it interesting is running the railroad and that takes moving the trains and doing what a railroad does. But this takes method to your madness.

If you do not know what you like or which direction you want your railroad to go, take the time to build the 5 foot table in the center peninsula and see what it is you like before you commit your resources to something bigger.
 
SpaceMouse, (and others)
Thank you for your replies. I have been digesting your comments. I am most interested in the building aspect of the project. However, your point about watching trains run getting old is well taken, SpaceMouse.

I widened the peninsula to 5 feet. I also extended the tables around so that I can have a circular layout requiring some sort of lift bridge.

Taking a look at this updated layout, can you suggest any more modifications? I calculated the max reach would be 42 inches. I would need to put a hand on the wall and use a stool to reach that far.

Also, please let me know if I am starting in the wrong place by designing the final room layout first.

Thanks a bunch,
~Eric
 
Eric --

I wish I had a big room like that to devote to trains. I'm sure you'll come up with a great design!

However, your most recent room layout in post #13 still has some awfully long reaches! My rough measurement shows it to be about 40 inches to the back of the peninsula and to the corners along the bottom wall.

So unless you are very tall and have very long arms, you won't be able to reach that area. You certainly would not want to have any track back there because you would not be able to reach a derailment. And you'll have to climb onto the table even to add scenery to those areas -- something that can be done if the benchwork and table are strong enough to support your weight.

- Jeff
 
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Take the time to make a model to scale. Graph paper printed onto cardstock at your UPS store blown up to largest paper they have is a great way to start. I too read somewhere to do that and did and really got a better idea of what I would have when actual costruction started.

Besides, those micro-layouts make really great conversation items when displayed somewhere else in the home or especially at work. Comments like,"I didn't know you were into model RR" or 'What's that thing on your desk". Also great for show and tell for the children or grandkids about what dad (grandad) likes to do in his spare time.

Good luck! and do share photos of how you are progressing. Drawings or construction.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. However, there has been a change of plans. It might work out for the best though...

The room I was looking into doing this with is a little large and my girlfriend would kill me if I used it for model trains. It also use to be a garage, so it has a slope that I would have to level out and I am not sure I want to go to the effort.

All is not lost though! I have a shop in my back yard that has a large area just perfect for this project. It's smaller, but still quite large. I will update you all when I have the exact dimensions and a plan for the space. Your feedback on my previous layouts will be taken into consideration as I plan the new space.

Thanks again,
~Eric
 
OK, so I have rethought my plans and have decided to use the smaller :( and much more out-of-the-way :) location of the shop in my backyard. There are two sections in my shop, a shelved area and a larger area that I have been using as storage. I will use the larger area for the train layout and move all the junk in there out to my actual storage shed.

I would really like to create a peninsula in my layout to add some "depth" to the circular layout. The problem with this is that my reach will be limited in the back area of the peninsula. I don't have a problem getting up on a stool or something to extend my reach, but please keep warning me if you still think that the layout will be a problem.

The purple represents the walls of the shop. The shop is heated so climate control is not a problem. I added purple lines to indicate the shop's walls. The part that does not have a purple line is where the large room connects to the smaller room (that I am actually using as a shop).

Thanks for the feedback,
~Eric
 
make the peninsula a teardrop style effect to give yourself better reach where they connect to the rest of the layout. When you do an around the walls style layout, you rarely need more depth than 2 or 2.5 feet, and you can still make realistic scenes.
 
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