Disappearing Floquil Enamels


NWCanuck

NWCanuck

Tip&Ring
Sorry if this is a repost but I could not find a related thread. Has anyone else noticed the shrinking enamel based paints (Floquil) vs acrylic paints (Polly Scale)? I was looking at the Testors site today for Floquil “Steam Power Black” and it is not even listed anymore except in Acrylic. Also the enamel selection for railroad colours has dropped down to two pages vs three pages for acrylic in the same colour line?

Are the enamels on the way out?
 
Brad, I've been using Floquil paint since the mid 80's. I've never heard of a "Steam Powder Black". Just engine/grimey/weathered black in enamel.
 
wheeler1963 said:
Brad, I've been using Floquil paint since the mid 80's. I've never heard of a "Steam Powder Black". Just engine/grimey/weathered black in enamel.
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Well, having looked into further I think you are right Jerome. I guess I just assumed these colours were available 1:1. I am thinking of switching to enamels because I think they lay down better and also give a smoother finish overall.

I have only used acrylics so far except gloss and dull coats. What colour Floquil are you using on your "Southern" and "CSOR" scheme units? "Engine" black in Floquil just doesn't seem like a good match for N&W black for me. “Steam Power Black” in Polly Scale is very close but I would like to try enamels.
 
Brad, the engine black has different characteristics depending on the weathering you apply and and the final dull/gloss coat. All of these engines were painted with engine black.

CSOR-middle painted with grimey black for the patched area.

100_1665.jpg


NS-engine black, gloss coated.

100_1176.jpg


PL&E-engine black, dull coated.

100_1206.jpg


Southern-engine black, dull coated.

100_1196.jpg


As you can see, there are many variations. Weathering is another. It just depends on the final results your looking for. Floquil's engine black is about as black as you can get I think. But you can fade it and shift it's tone as you like.
 
wheeler1963 said:
Brad, the engine black has different characteristics depending on the weathering you apply and and the final dull/gloss coat. All of these engines were painted with engine black.

CSOR-middle painted with grimey black for the patched area.

100_1665.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reference photos Jerome. I am going to have to try Floquil Engine black and compare it because I think it is slightly different between the acrylic and the enamel. When comparing Engine black to Steam Power black in the Polly Scale line, the Engine black is definitely more of a faded black. It would almost look like the center of the hood in the photo you provided (grimy black) vs. the rest of the unit (no weathering or top coats involved).

People might be reading this and thinking "this guy is nuts", it’s just black? But when you compare factory finished models in the N&W scheme from various manufacturers to the four colours of black available in the Polly Scale line (Engine, Steam Power, Oily and Grimy black). The only one that even comes close to a deep jet black, no fading, fresh out of the paint shop look, is Polly Scale Steam Power Black.

It really isn't a big deal though because I will at some point be fading and weathering all of these locomotives, so close is good enough. I will post a photo of what I mean when I get a chance.
 
Actually Floquil never made "enamels". They made laquers. Completely different type of paint and a different thinner.

Testors made enamels.
 
dave1905 said:
Actually Floquil never made "enamels". They made laquers. Completely different type of paint and a different thinner.

Testors made enamels.
Click to expand...

And that was the case until Testor got involved with the brand. Here is a quote from Testors after the question was posed over on the Fine Scale Modeler forums.


QUOTE: Hi Mike,

Thank you for your inquiry. I will try to answer your question
regarding the Floquil paints.

Under the previous organization Floquil was a lacquer based paint.
However about 8-9 years ago the Floquil brand was consolidated with
Testor under a reorganization plan initiated by our parent company RPM.
(RPM owned both Testor and Floquil). When this occurred production of
Floquil paint was phased into the Testor product line. It was at this
point (about 7 yrs. ago) that Floquil was re-formulated to an enamel
based paint.

Floquil is now currently either enamel or acrylic (Polly-Scale) based
paints.

If you have any other questions or comments please let me know.

Mike Butterworth
Testor Corporation
440 Blackhawk Park Ave.
Rockford, IL 61104

http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/p/28082/287065.aspx

Regardless there seems to be more colour variety on the Acrylic side vs the Enamel side when it comes to railroad colours.
 
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I have seen a Steam Power Black as well. I'll try and get the number for it when I go by my LHS this week.

I assume the trend toward acrylics is due to making the paints less "toxic" or something. The enamels may also not sell as much as the acrylics, since I've found in a previous hobby that enamels and certain plastics don't mix well (paint that NEVER dries).
 
Floquil switched everything to Enamel a few years back as did everybody, no matter what business it pertained to due to environmental and health issues. I wanted to paint my Motorcycle last year and Automotive lacquers are banned. You can still buy thinner all over but no paint (some in fiz cans are still avail for home use).

I buy my black in the small bottles you get for Auto Touch Up paint, those are always lacquer. I'm going to stock up on Touch Up paints in other solid colors also. I use Deft wood finish, it's the same as the old Floquil Flat Finish, kinda milky looking, fast drying, I'd have to look, don't remember if it's Satin or Semi-Gloss though that I use. A 1qt can lasts a long time.
 
Back to Brad's original question as to a dimishing variety in the Floquil enamel colors. One color I use a lot that wasn't reformulated after the change to enamels is Amtrak Red - RR143. A couple of years ago I stumbled upon an out of the way hobby shop that had a box of the old Tolulene based Floquil and found a bottle of the Amtrak Red so I grabbed it. Floquil Dio Sol is no longer available either but again I was able to buy one of the last pints in another LHS. I'm sure there must be others that never made it into the enamel line as well, possibly due to little or no demand.
 
Mike, my LHS has Dio-Sol available in the 1oz. bottles still. They even have the newer style labels on them.
 
The short answer to why they are all going to Acrylics has only three letters, "EPA"
I own an auto body shop and I can tell you the push to waterbase paints is in full swing. The fact that the tech to make it truely viable isn't here yet wont stop them from forcing it on us. The price of paint has skyrocketed over the last few years. Just an example today I bought a half pint of a red metalic for a Toyota that cost me $58.00, half a pint!
The cost of non waterbased paints will keep rising as the EPA's rules keep getting tougher. Soon waterbase is all there will be.
 
wheeler1963 said:
Mike, my LHS has Dio-Sol available in the 1oz. bottles still. They even have the newer style labels on them.
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Yes I've seen it in a few local places in the 1 oz bottles. I have about 25 or so bottles of the original Floquil from years ago that are still good but was fresh out of Dio Sol which I used to buy in qt cans. To give you an idea, most of the paint bottles have original price stickers on them from $1.00 to $1.29. When I got back into the hobby a couple of years ago one of the first things I wanted to do was catch up on all undecs waiting for paint jobs. That was when I found out they had changed to enamel. At today's prices for a 1 oz bottle of Dio Sol and no larger size available I save the pint I got for colors that are no longer made as an enamel like Amtrak red.
 
Are most of you guys willing to make the switch to acrylics? As mentioned here it seems as time goes on we really are not going to have a choice. I for one don't mind the acrylics, but compared to enamels I find you need to be more careful with them once they are applied. You really need to get the gloss or dull coat on them ASAP because they are easily scratched or rubbed off with handling. I prefer the enamels for trucks and wheel sets because they are more durable than the acrylics.

As far as willing to make the switch I can imagine a few guys here that will have to have the last bottle of enamel based paint pried from their cold dead hands...Jerome?:p
 
Brad, you know me too well!!! ;) LOL To be fair, I have tried the acrylics. I just can't get them to behave like enamels. And I have a sizable investment in enamels. Like Mike mentioned earlier, I have bottles from the mid 80's with prices starting at $1.29 and up to the modern prices of $4.98 a bottle. I've had maybe 2 or 3 bottles of Floquil ever go bad on me and that was my fault for not tightening the cap properly. So until I can't get anymore colors, or I can't paint anymore, I'll go with what I know. ;)
 
wheeler1963 said:
Mike, my LHS has Dio-Sol available in the 1oz. bottles still. They even have the newer style labels on them.
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Coleman Fuel for lanterns and stoves was the same thing, you used to get a whole gal for $3, but they may have changed that now too! I just use Dupont Automotive Lacquer Thinner, it dries faster than the cheap Lacquer thinner from stores. I know a professional modeler, he uses Dupont Lacquer Thinner but uses it mix Scalecoat Enamels, he is also a dealer for Scalecoat.
 
wheeler1963 said:
Brad, you know me too well!!! ;) LOL To be fair, I have tried the acrylics. I just can't get them to behave like enamels. And I have a sizable investment in enamels. Like Mike mentioned earlier, I have bottles from the mid 80's with prices starting at $1.29 and up to the modern prices of $4.98 a bottle. I've had maybe 2 or 3 bottles of Floquil ever go bad on me and that was my fault for not tightening the cap properly. So until I can't get anymore colors, or I can't paint anymore, I'll go with what I know. ;)
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Twins separated at birth?? LOL

I too have given acrylics a fair try and I'm not giving up my laquers and enamels either Jerome. Out of all the tolulene Floquils I have with some dating back to 1974 I only had to toss a couple for the same reasons you did. Oh sure the pigments got semi solid as it settled and sat for as long as 28 years but adding a few drops of fresh Dio Sol and some stirring and shaking brought them all back to useable. Generally the unmixed paints stayed fine. Bottles that I had previously added glaze and Dio Sol to for airbrushing were the ones that needed a fresh shot of DS to revive them. The old formula for airbrushing was 70% paint, 20% glaze, and 10% Dio Sol to obtain an eggshell finish that was smooth enough for good decal adhesion.

What was really neat about the old formula was once it was cured even Dio Sol wouldn't attack it so multi color paint jobs never bled through and you could put white over black without a problem. These days I find with the enamels it is safer to go light to dark to avoid bleed through as I've had a couple of bleeds even though the cure time between coats was several days.

EPA my @$$! :p My trains come first.
 
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