Cryogenic Plant & Helium Plant


beiland

Well-Known Member
Cryogenic Plant & Helium Plant


Finished the track plans, and the base plate onto which the coal mine will be built. Now I need to turn my attention to the left and down that long ramp that will take the trains down along that side of the layout to connect back to the mainline. At the bottom of that ramp there will be an intersection of turnouts that will allow the trains to access the refinery area. The refinery area is going to fill that opposite corner, and include both oil products and propane products,....so oil and propane tank cars will be loading and moving around on these tracks on either side of the refinery.


Early on I had wanted to possible find a location for at least a small cryogenic plant along with a spherical storage tank for those liquefied gases. It stems from my long time fascination with those cryogenic tank cars. I bought at least 8 of them when BLI finally bought out those plastic ones. Up to that time I figured the only way I would be able to afford those brass cars was to kit bash them like Bobby Pitts did such an excellent job on.


DSCF4489.jpg


...one of Bobby's cars..
Cyro%20tank%20car%2C%20B%20Pitts%2C%20ps800.jpg






Lets see, can I fit something in that space between to two opposite ends of the layout, and outboard of that ramp of track? First off I needed a long track parallel to the ramp track that could allow for staging some of those tank cars that would be coming and going from the refinery. Perhaps I should have two such 'staging tracks' for the variety of tank cars involved, plus even some coal loaded cars might pay a visit.


By happenstance I placed some turnouts and spur tracks at angles off of one of those staging tracks. Here is what that looked like.
DSCF4691.jpg



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DSCF4695.jpg



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I randomly placed those spurs in 'pairs' thinking each pair could service a small plant each. And the spurs are long enough to accommodate two of those cryogenic cars. The small plants would be located in between those spurs, and might consist of spherical stowage tanks (have two already), short squat condensing towers, taller towers, etc.



Nothing set in stone,..just brainstorming.


I'm open to ideas,..suggestions?
 
I'm trying to figure out what might be done to 'disguise' that ramp of track running down that side behind the cryogenic plants. The ramp can be seen rather clearly in a few of those pics.

I did NOT want to make it some sort of man-made steel structure, but rather an 'earthly' structure. But it is pretty tightly sandwiched in between that mainline track running along the wall, and the siding/staging tracks for the refinery et al. That would make the sides of that ramp-roadbed/mound pretty steep?

Any ideas?

perhaps rocky base?
 
Just be sure to solidly attach the helium storage tank to your layout before you fill it. The prototype is bigger and made of steel. Your model is made of plastic and could float away.

But to answer your question, could steel panels driven into the ground (close to the track) work? Think cofferdam.
 
I have had some interest expressed in my Helium operations. So I thought I would share a snap of my Helium reduction refinery and much modified old AHM Helium car. For those who are in the Santa Fe Railway Historical group may have seen my article on modeling the AHM cars in the 4th Q 2014 issue of the WARBONNET.

The refinery is pure imagination but is based on the "feeling" of the Excel Helium plant at Keyes, Oklahoma.
Pat











helium_5.jpg

Those helium cars look pretty good, but I almost wonder why none of the modern manufacturers have not chosen to make a new model of these cars?
 
Creating Molds & Helium Car
Any more updates on this thought? Sounds like an interesting method to produce just hundreds of items vs thousands?

SLA Printers are capable of creating injection molds
Fri, 2018-03-02 17:58 — krjone01
Formlabs has a white paper on using their SLA resin printer to create injection molds. The molds don't last as long as a steel mold, but you can always print another.
https://formlabs.com/blog/3d-printing-for-injection-molding/
Kevin Jones

Helium Car,
There is an item I thought might sell in these limited numbers. Wonder if anyone has attempted a 3D printed Helium car?
 
I'm back to final track planning for this side of the room's upper deck. That includes a number of different 'scenes' that have to be woven together to fit this upper deck here,....the refinery, the helium plant, and the cryogenic tanks/plant/loading tracks.

I had laid down some preliminary plans on this subject thread, but now I need to refine them.

I was becoming more concerned about my change to the track along the wall, behind that grade up to the coal mine. I had recently decided to make that a double track mainline feeding the dbl track helix, rather than a single track back there. I was afraid that might push things outwardly and cut down on my real estate for the cryogenic and helium operations.

I also need to confirm that I have enough turnouts for my upper level, as my inventory is drawing down.

..to be continued
 
I've been 'playing' with various configurations for my refinery scene. It started out with the selection of this corner spot on my upper deck, above the steel mill scene,..

Jun 29, 2019
Revisions

Do these revisions ever stop....ha...ha

About a week (or 2?) ago I got my already assembled steel mill blast furnace out of its box and placed it on main deck where I had planned to put it. Well it turned out it was a little too tall to fit under the upper deck's planned height. For a few days I played around with the idea of moving it up to the top deck.
Of course that meant I had to move my Santa Fe station and engine house scene out of there, and over to the corner across the room. I subsequently decided NOT to move blast furnace up top, and placed it back down in its original location. BUT I decided I would cut away a small portion of that upper deck to allow the towering blast furnace to remain uncut/untrimmed. But now my SF engine facility would not fit up there.
Besides I had now become comfortable with the Santa Fe station and engine house over in its new corner. I was intending to have an adjacent USA west coast container/ship-yard up there in association with the Santa Fe facilities, so that yard was moved over to the opposite side of the layout along with the station and engine house.

That move displaced my thoughts about locating a coal mine in that spot, so now I had to look for a new home for coal. I thought about moving to coal mining scene back over to the upper deck over the steel mill. Then I got the idea that that corner would be better utilized for the refinery scene that would require more real estate than the coal mine. So I found that I could fit the coal mine scene in far upper right corner with some trees and mountains associated with the logging scene still in planning.
I sketched out a tentative coal mine in that corner. As I sat looking at it for a few days, I grew irritated that the coal mine scene would be right adjacent to the end of the container yard. I didn't like that association. So now I have moved the coal mine scene to the left hand upper corner, and it will likely have to be built in a light-wt removal manner to gain access to my custom double crossover up there?

I have decided to place the refinery scene in the upper corner over the blast furnace. I figure with all that piping, etc of the refinery, that the upper tower of the blast furnace will just 'get-lost/blend-in' with all that piping. I also figure that having the refinery up at that height, it won't be too noticeable that my dble mainlines in that corner will be running right thru the middle of the refinery,...a no-no.
Sort of like the old time game of 'musical chairs'



It started like this,...
DSCF4492.jpg

DSCF4485.jpg DSCF4487.jpg DSCF4489.jpg



Now I am thinking I could put 2 of those refinery kits in there to make the scene appear to be larger,....second one where that white plastic plate is noted by the arrows.

DSCF7493.jpg DSCF7498.jpg

I will also be putting a row of 3 to 4 of those loading platforms along there loading cars on either of the two tracks.
 
Lets see, can I fit something in that space between to two opposite ends of the layout, and outboard of that ramp of track? First off I needed a long track parallel to the ramp track that could allow for staging some of those tank cars that would be coming and going from the refinery. Perhaps I should have two such 'staging tracks' for the variety of tank cars involved, plus even some coal loaded cars might pay a visit.

[DSCF4696]

I randomly placed those spurs in 'pairs' thinking each pair could service a small plant each. And the spurs are long enough to accommodate two of those cryogenic cars. The small plants would be located in between those spurs, and might consist of spherical stowage tanks (have two already), short squat condensing towers, taller towers, etc.

Nothing set in stone,..just brainstorming.
I'm open to ideas,..suggestions?
**********************************************

I need to do a bit more research on the production and facilities involved with the cryogenic fluids. I found this site and some of its images rather interesting,

LINDE, History and technological progress. Cryogenic air separation
https://www.leamericas.com/en/images/Cryogenic air separation brochure19_4353_tcm136-414865.pdf
 
Some of the more recent 'playing with structure positions', (btw, some of those objects are kitchen items,..tomato and onion containers masquerading as spherical storage tanks)

DSCF7494.jpg DSCF7495.jpg DSCF7496.jpg DSCF7497.jpg
************************************************

Per my older memory bank, I could not find a goodly number of the storage tanks I had saved for this area. I had put them back in the cargo trailer until I would next need them,...but after a good number of hours several days ago, I could not find them??

I decided I would take a new look today,... I just could not have lost them. YES, I found them very quickly. They were hiding in a brown cardboard box on a shelf just inside the door of the trailer,...figures they would be that hidden???

So here is the contents of that box,..
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Notice I have 5 of those spherical tanks, one built, 4 unbuilt. I really like the looks of these tanks.

So I started playing musical chairs with the various tanks in my cryogenic/helium area. I have not arrived at anything permanent yet, but I am VERY tempted to put 2 of these spherical tanks in a line along each of those spur tracks for the cryogenic cars. I also want to make those spur tracks long enough to hold 2 of those cryo cars at the same time. I likely will need to add a 2" wide piece of plywood deck to that existing edge to accommodate this extra length of track.

DSCF7503.jpg DSCF7504.jpg DSCF7505.jpg
(...pardon the food container stand-ins for the other tanks,...ha...ha)
 
...from another forum,
About 25 years ago I was the plant engineer at an Airco industrial gases plant and we occasionally loaded LOX, LIN, and LAR in rail cars. There is a ‘valve box’ mounted on the lower part of a car. You open the doors on that box and attach your flexible hose, then line up your valves (make sure the vent valve is open), then start up the pump and let ‘er rip. If the car is relatively warm it takes a while to cool down and during that time the liquid vaporizes and vents which can be a big waste. IIRC once it is cooled down it takes about an hour to fill. You have the keep an eye in the level gauge or you’ll have liquid coming out the vent!

Super simple to model, no need for loading platforms or complicated piping arrangements.

The older guys told me about filling standard cryogenic tanks mounted inside box cars but I think those were retired in the ‘50’s.

from that same gentleman,
For a long time I considered modeling a small air separation plant until I eventually realized that I wouldn’t be satisfied with a bare bones representation and that detailed modeling (pipe racks, platforms, stairs, ladders, railings etc etc) would be very very hard. But if you wanted to do one you could get away with a compressor building with office at one end, distillation column cold box, liquifier cold box, three tanks, and a fill line for trucks.
 
Perhaps that helium plant could look something like this one posted by Pat on another older subject thread,..


[img]


...and perhaps that building could be put together from some old metal Suydam kits?
box factory? (have to cut it down in size)
[Box%2520Factory%25201]

[Box%2520Factory%25202]


or maybe some other suggestions??
 
Creating Molds & Helium Car
Any more updates on this thought? Sounds like an interesting method to produce just hundreds of items vs thousands?



Helium Car,
There is an item I thought might sell in these limited numbers. Wonder if anyone has attempted a 3D printed Helium car?


gmpullman wrote:
I don't know if anyone has posted these photos from the Barriger Library showing several cars in various stages of construction.

[35034446102_2e00c7535c_4k]4368007 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

[35034437692_155a9cf1a2_4k]4368009 by John W.


Regards, Ed


Thanks guys for your replies. These 2 images almost promote a modern kit product from some manufacturer or parts printer! 👍
 
My refinery plant, then helium plant, then cryogenic loading tanks are all going to stretch along the upper left deck of the layout. This is some of my latest thinking about the refinery area. First of all it needs to provide for a double mainline behind it and turning thru the 90 degree corner it sits in.
DSCF7537.jpg
The double mainlines are marked in this photo. They originate as the double helix tracks reach the upper deck (back under the coal mine in the corner at the other end). They go on down towards those tanks in the corner in view, then turn a sweeping corner to the left and cross an entrance-way bridge (not in the photo). (that white piece of tracing paper is just a partially folded paper with various radius curves drawn on it for planning purposes)

That 'refinery back track' was originally going to be for propane tank cars, while the front 2 were going to be oil, gas, tank cars loading up from 3-4 in-line loading racks/ramps. I'm thinking I will change this such that the inner front track of those two is the propane tank car track, and the outer one for oil/gas tank cars.
DSCF7536.jpg DSCF7535.jpg

That frees up that 'back spur track' to handle a variety of tank cars as desired at any particular time,..plus importantly, a dedicated switcher engine that will shuffle cars around in all three of these gas and oil facilities. That switcher will be able to take and spot empty cars delivered from that inner mainline that loops around the upper deck. And it will be able to bring full cars back from the 3 zones to join up with mainline trains.
 
2 hours ago · Edited
I've been working on this upper left side of my layout for the past few weeks (on and off). Here is a view of the ramps that I am seeking to cover with an embossed stone paper facing that has yet to arrive in the mail,...

Here is where I am thinking of using some stone wall material,

Quote:
.........on this ramp of track (behind the cryogenic scene) going up to the coal mine) 1.jpg


...and here on the track going up to the bridge over the logging pond,
2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg


So as you can see I may need a fair amount of stone wall material to add,...


I have had to make many little changes to track plan to smooth things out from my original mock up,...and these changes are all inter-related down the whole length of that side as the track plan is all inter-related. I have actually found room for a helium plant (building), along with 2 tracks for that plant,...one for the old style helium cars, and one for the newer style container car carriers.

I've also found room for a cryogenic building, and possible a good size cooling tower. (photos to come after I get those 2 sections of deck put back in the room).

I also discovered a problem with my coal mine scene which I documented over here,..
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/new-river-coal-mine-modifications-12292633?pid=1332086767

Almost all my turnouts on this upper level are going to controlled manually,...and those will be by a rod (music wire) within a plastic sheave that is buried in a trough in the decks surface. I cut those troughs with a small router, but it was EXTREMELY messy with the wood chips that were thrown out. Fortunately I moved those deck pieces to my outdoor work bench to make those cuts.
 
I have 4 turnouts located up on those ramps. At first I was hoping that the music wire bent into a 90 degree turn would be stiff enough to operate those elevated Peco turnouts. NO, it was too wimpy.

At first I thought perhaps I would solder a triangular piece of thin steel plate in there to provide the rigidity. The solder did NOT work, couldn't get it to stick to both surfaces. I then got out some 5 minute JB Weld. That did NOT set up properly (maybe it was too old). So I next cleaned that off as much as possible, and got out some regular JB weld. That worked,...not pretty but it will be hidden under the ramp, with the music wire going up thru a hold in the ramp and into the Peco crossbar.
DSCF7663.jpg DSCF7664.jpg DSCF7666.jpg
 



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