Athearn's Latest Price Increases: Im out...


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It is sad. Walthers and Athearn's newer releases cost just as much OR MORE than exactrail and Atlas. Exactrail and Atlas are better cars with details and far better quality control.

Here is a good example....Walthers autoracks. 15 years ago, they went for $19.99....Then tehy went up to $22.99.....About 5 years ago, up to $25.99.....Now they are $45. There is a problem here. That is NOT inflation, IT IS GREED.
 
I remember paying $3.00 for Athearn Blue Box kits! However, I have been so disaitisfied with what happened to Athearn and MDC since Horizon Hobbies bought them out and they quit producing kits that I haven't bought any of their stuff, since this happened! So, welcome to the brotherhood of not being Horizon Hobbies customers!

I'm also very disatisfied with Walthers having stopped producing kits! Mostly what I have on my layout now are Accurail, Branchline and Life Like Proto 2000, with some Bowser and other odd KITS! Excuse me, but, I'm a MODEL Railroader, meaning the stuff I use is MODELED, not purchased RTR! How can there be ANY pride in what you do, if you don't "model" your railroad!??!
 
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I dont think i'll be paying 45 buck for a rail car, no matter what name is on it. Although im sure some of the price increases are to boost the profit margin, i wonder how much of that is directly related to the number of units sold. I dont have any hard facts to back this up, but it is my impression of people today that far fewer of the general population is interested in model railroading. If the price gets to high, then they are just shooting their own foot, because less and less people will take up the hobby. The layout im buildining is on a 10 x 5 table with another table 10 x 1.5 for a train yard. I used all scrap lumber to build them so that the cost was low, but my total cost so far is over 800 dollars and im not nearly done. With the scenery included in the price, i dont see this layout costing under 2 thousand, and i would consider this layout to be quite modest.
 
You know,,,having retired from 30 years in an oil refinery,I have a "different" look at what goes on with the oil side of things.Diesel fuel that costs more than gasoline,when it is SO much more cheaper to refine it.(a lot less steps than gas).And low lead,now unleaded,is a joke too.It runs through the plant with less "process"and expense than the older formulated fuels.It is a real shame(scam) when they use the"the reason gas prices have increased is,,,,"and they tell us another plant manager had a bloody nose or something.Sadly,we pay it,cause we use it.
Getting back to the earlier talk about price increases on model cars,etc.,stop paying the price,yea,it will add to "used" prices going up a little.But I am one of those people that liked "American Pickers" when it first came out.Now,ya try to buy something at a "meet",sale,or even a garage sale,and ya hear,"well I saw this on American Pickers,and THEY paid this much for it".Ya watch Pawn Stars,and they just bought two RR lanterns for 200 bucks apiece.Gee I got one last summer for 4.50,but I don't think the guy had a TV!
 
With higher prices what will happen to the young people wanting to get into the hobby? We've got several teen members in our club and all but one can't afford the prices of this stuff. Cars from $40.00 to over 100. Diesels (DC) are outrages. The manufacturers are hurting the hobby with their pricing. Yeah, I saw some prices at a recent swap meet, that matched the LHS's too. Depressing Phil
 
Well, I got Athearn's news letter a few days ago. I was stunned to see that the price of their GP38-2, with the same features has increased by USD20 (from USD79.98 to USD99.98)! Man! In just one year! 10, would have made sense but 20? That means it's max retail price is now almost the same as an Atlas GP38-2s max retail price (USD102.95). And which has more features:confused:?

Also, I somewhat agree with NYW&B, from reading reviews in the internet, and watching Youtube video reviews on model trains. People seem to want so many features for almost the same price and want to return items in which one handrail has come of, number board has poped out, a little paint is coming of etc etc. Most which can be put right by just pushing it back in and maybe a little gluing also.

I for one, just want the locomotives and rolling stock to have the correct measurements, shapes and proportions, but I can overlook things like, you know, super detailing, that is MU hoses, underframe details, pilots, wind shield wipers, see thru grills, railroad specific details etc etc.....and be very happy with it.

I must admit though, I always want all wheel pick up and drive (I love diesels), preferably a flywheel equipped motor in my locomotives. I like having directional/constant brightness headlights as I operate on DC, but after learning how to make the circuit myself from going thru the internet, I'm more than happy to add it myself:) as to make the circuits(s) it only costs me USD4 per locomotive:)! And prefer to have all metal wheels on rolling stock.
 
sd24b said:
With higher prices what will happen to the young people wanting to get into the hobby? We've got several teen members in our club and all but one can't afford the prices of this stuff. Cars from $40.00 to over 100. Diesels (DC) are outrages. The manufacturers are hurting the hobby with their pricing. Yeah, I saw some prices at a recent swap meet, that matched the LHS's too. Depressing Phil
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Walthers Trainline GP-9;s can be had for just under $40.00. Bachmann's entry level line is competitively priced. Accurail is still alive and well. You can get Athearn, Atlas, and Walthers starter sets for under $200.00. That's less than a video game console. Beginners don't have to start out with Genesis or BLI models. The entry level stuff is still there and reasonably priced.

Like it or not, the manufacturers are building what we (the market) want, and it costs more than the old BB models. Those of you so inclined can grouse about prices all you want, but the stuff IS selling...selling out in most cases. That's a hard argument to beat. Just sayin...
 
RTR has been in production for YEARS, but only in the last 3-5 have the prices gone nuts. Also, the reason almost every run is selling out is because they are producing less.


Espeefan said:
Like it or not, the manufacturers are building what we (the market) want, and it costs more than the old BB models. Those of you so inclined can grouse about prices all you want, but the stuff IS selling...selling out in most cases. That's a hard argument to beat. Just sayin...
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scotty418 said:
Getting back to the earlier talk about price increases on model cars,etc.,stop paying the price,yea,it will add to "used" prices going up a little.But I am one of those people that liked "American Pickers" when it first came out.Now,ya try to buy something at a "meet",sale,or even a garage sale,and ya hear,"well I saw this on American Pickers,and THEY paid this much for it".Ya watch Pawn Stars,and they just bought two RR lanterns for 200 bucks apiece.Gee I got one last summer for 4.50,but I don't think the guy had a TV!
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You are right about the tv shows. I've been a life long hot rodder, car builder, and racer. With the wide spread access to cable and satellite tv shows like the Barret Jackson auction and Boyd Coddington and the rest of that nonsense it turned the old car market upside down. Since then what used to be just another rust bucket out behind somebody's barn and almost free is now like gold, or so they think. "When this is restored it will bring $40,000 at auction so I can't let it go for less than 3 grand." Oh really?, there isn't enough left of it to attract a refrigerator magnet!

Some stuff is actually rare and has value as a collectible or classic item. The rest is just simply OLD and USED and worth no more than its original price - maybe.
 
I am glad you mentioned rare and collectable.I am just getting interested in HO stuff.All is new to me.Getting back to "old" stuff,I have an unrestored old Lionel set that hasn't bee usable for years.I wanna trade it (or sell it),to have starting $ for HO.Are there "honest" shops,etc.to have this checked out?I have a small hobbie shop right here in NW Indiana,but I don't often venture in there.They have been around for years,so I am guessing they do know a little,,,,,
 
Scotty do some reasearch before you make a decision. Lionel is fairly easy as there are several price guides published on vintage Lionel and accessories. There are also monthly and semi monthly toy train collector magazines. These you will find at major book stores like Barnes & Noble in the magazine section for hobbies. A lot of hobby shops do not sell or deal with other than scale trains; N, HO, S, O, etc.; so asking them might be pointless. When you find a value of the same items you have be honest as to the condition of yours versus that of a mint one. Generally the higher prices you will find are for well above average condition to near new.
 
ST214 said:
RTR has been in production for YEARS, but only in the last 3-5 have the prices gone nuts. Also, the reason almost every run is selling out is because they are producing less.
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Do you know what has happened to Chinese labor costs in 3-5 years? What has happened to supplier availability? The truth is we've had very good prices for a number of years, and now we're seeing the results of increasing costs of production. I was told several years ago that this would be happening by people I know in the industry. And yes, they are producing less. Nobody can afford to have inventory sitting on the shelf anymore, so they make enough to fill the initial orders, plus maybe 10% more, and that's it. Welcome to Corporate America and "just in time inventory". Its being done with everything these days, not just model trains. Get ready for manufacturers to move again to sompelace with cheaper labor
 
I am aware of the Chinese labor situation, but if you believe that is ALL of the problem it is not. I know it is hard to believe, but Wal-Mart is the one that really got the ball moving on that situation.

I work in corporate America. I know all about cost cutting and "just in time inventory". I also do not see a problem with items being on the shelf, as long as they move before they expire, or in the situation of our hobby, 6 months. The hobby(and other things) has gotten to the point where production is so sparse, most inventory does not last a few weeks, leave alone a few months! Corporate America needs to learn that inventory is NOT a bad thing.

The move may not even be to a place with cheaper labor, but back here to America. Between the rising labor in Asia, the cost of shipping, and the import taxes, some companies are already doing this, or at least seriously considering it.


Espeefan said:
Do you know what has happened to Chinese labor costs in 3-5 years? What has happened to supplier availability? The truth is we've had very good prices for a number of years, and now we're seeing the results of increasing costs of production. I was told several years ago that this would be happening by people I know in the industry. And yes, they are producing less. Nobody can afford to have inventory sitting on the shelf anymore, so they make enough to fill the initial orders, plus maybe 10% more, and that's it. Welcome to Corporate America and "just in time inventory". Its being done with everything these days, not just model trains. Get ready for manufacturers to move again to sompelace with cheaper labor
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ST214 said:
I am aware of the Chinese labor situation, but if you believe that is ALL of the problem it is not. I know it is hard to believe, but Wal-Mart is the one that really got the ball moving on that situation.

I work in corporate America. I know all about cost cutting and "just in time inventory". I also do not see a problem with items being on the shelf, as long as they move before they expire, or in the situation of our hobby, 6 months. The hobby(and other things) has gotten to the point where production is so sparse, most inventory does not last a few weeks, leave alone a few months! Corporate America needs to learn that inventory is NOT a bad thing.

The move may not even be to a place with cheaper labor, but back here to America. Between the rising labor in Asia, the cost of shipping, and the import taxes, some companies are already doing this, or at least seriously considering it.
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The other side of the coin is that we want that cheap Chinese stuff. if we didn't, Wal-Mart couldn't stay in business. If you'll look at earlier posts I believe you'll find one where I said I hope they move some of this stuff back here to the US, but since I also work in corporate America, I think they'll all end up fighting over the last two Zambians or some such silly strategy in order to keep the labor cheap.

Now most of the RTR line is not this expensive. in fact, this model really should be in their Genesis line. The Kadee equivalent model has been in this price range for a couple of years. I paid $42.00 or so for an SP PS2 covered hopper with an equivalent level of detail a few years back. The Athearn model has etched metal roofwalks, metal grabs and a similar level of detail to their Genesis line and the Kadee model. These details are far and away superior to the old cast on grabs and thick plastic roofwalks of the original BB cars, and you're going to pay for that. Of course you don't have to, but considering they are within $5.00 of Kadee's price for a similar model I don't see how anyone can call this gouging. It's more of a 'you get what you pay for" kind of thing. :D You can always get a similar model in kit form from Bowser for $14.00 or so, or an assembled car for $23.00, and you'll have to add metal wheels, Kadees, and you won't get the etched metal walks or wire grabs, or the underbody detail. It's all up to you.
 
When they first came out with the 60' boxcars in RTR, they were basically Genesis cars with regular old trucks, wheels, and couplers, but they also retailed for $25. Now, they are $40.

Leave the Genesis line as the Genesis line, and continue to provide decent looking cars for around $20-25. That is all I'm saying.

Espeefan said:
The other side of the coin is that we want that cheap Chinese stuff. if we didn't, Wal-Mart couldn't stay in business. If you'll look at earlier posts I believe you'll find one where I said I hope they move some of this stuff back here to the US, but since I also work in corporate America, I think they'll all end up fighting over the last two Zambians or some such silly strategy in order to keep the labor cheap.

Now most of the RTR line is not this expensive. in fact, this model really should be in their Genesis line. The Kadee equivalent model has been in this price range for a couple of years. I paid $42.00 or so for an SP PS2 covered hopper with an equivalent level of detail a few years back. The Athearn model has etched metal roofwalks, metal grabs and a similar level of detail to their Genesis line and the Kadee model. These details are far and away superior to the old cast on grabs and thick plastic roofwalks of the original BB cars, and you're going to pay for that. Of course you don't have to, but considering they are within $5.00 of Kadee's price for a similar model I don't see how anyone can call this gouging. It's more of a 'you get what you pay for" kind of thing. :D You can always get a similar model in kit form from Bowser for $14.00 or so, or an assembled car for $23.00, and you'll have to add metal wheels, Kadees, and you won't get the etched metal walks or wire grabs, or the underbody detail. It's all up to you.
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ST214 said:
When they first came out with the 60' boxcars in RTR, they were basically Genesis cars with regular old trucks, wheels, and couplers, but they also retailed for $25. Now, they are $40.

Leave the Genesis line as the Genesis line, and continue to provide decent looking cars for around $20-25. That is all I'm saying.
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I understand. They seem to be blurring the lines between the two product lines. The U50, for example is not in the Genesis line. It's an RTR model, which kind of surprised me. There are still plenty of lower price point models in the RTR line though. This particular one is not typical of what you'd expect for RTR detail. Some of their newer tank cars are the same way. All I'm saying is let's compare fairly. If the detail level warrants the price, then so be it. If those Intermountain or Atlas cars don't have the etched metal details and so forth, then it really isn't a fair comparison. Those etched metal parts are expensive. If Athearn had gone with cast on grabs and plastic roof walks it probably would drop the model's price down onto the low $30.00 range. OTOH they are overcharging on other things. You used to be able to get a box of 6 of those shorty trailers for 6 or $7.50. Now it's $14.98 for two on a blister card. Same tooling, higher price :mad: Not sure why, unless they just feel folks will pay. HO vehicle pricing is way up there too. The Golden Age of Model Railroading now requires lots more gold :eek: I don't mind paying if the value is there, and with the hoppers I think it is. I'm not buying any shorty trailers though! We just have to bargain hunt, which is never a problem.
 
Opt Out

My thinking is to simply opt out of exorbitantly priced equipment. I fully agree with those suggesting the Walthers and Athearn increases are prohibitive; moreover, there's a principle involved about being gouged. It's a shame these larger entities have adopted the corporate model of ripping off the consumer; and they will sow the seeds of their own demise as such.

I don't see Kadee, Intermountain or Exact Rail climbing on this bandwagon - rather offering fine products at a generally consistent price. Tangent is a bit high, but their models are very nice.

One gentleman commented about consumers wanting RTR causing some of this - although RTR has been rather affordable until recently and continues to be so with the more reasonable manufacturers. The point of view disregards the situation of work time with many who simply haven't hours apiece to assemble detailed kits, or would rather use some of this time further detailing, i.e. weathering, commodity loads, graffiti, etc.

As economic pressures continue to impair one's disposable income, it seems self-destructive for some manufacturers to raise rates as if they were credit card companies. I certainly will not endorse this conduct by purchasing their products so long as this attitude prevails.
 
Here is a copy of the email I just sent to Athearn...awaitin a response

I am sad to say that I will no longer be purchasing Athearn products. I have been watching the prices hike constantly over the last few months quite dramatically and in my opinion, all the new stock is highly over priced. I know the competitors have also raised their prices, but not nearly as quickly or dramatically. I really like the Athearn quality, among others, but I just cant justify the MSRP now. I have bought alot of your products in the past up until about 6 months ago. My idea for products is to lower prices to where we can afford to buy 2 cars a month instead of 1 a month. Thanks for your consideration.
 
So who pays full MSRP for anything? I can't remember the last time I did. :rolleyes: Oh, wait...there was one model. It was a brass steamer.

Look at the level of detail on the model that started the whole thread. It's right up there with the Kadee car, and very close to it's cost. Now if it was the same old BB quality, I'd be right there with you, but you don't get etched metal roofwalks, separate metal grabs, full brake rigging and full underbody detail unless you want to pay for it. If it doesn't bother you to hand the money to Tangent for this level of detail, why does it bother you to hand it to Athearn if the quality and detail level is the same? :confused:
 
I dont hand money to anybody like that unless I am gonna get 2 or more cars for that price. Do you detail your own cars at all? I do and I can start with an Athearn BB kit and make it just as good, if not better then the genesis cars for about half the price...
 
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