homersimpsonlikestrains
Active Member
I’m stuck if I should build a 4 x 8 HO train layout or an L-shape dog bone HO layout. Which is better to avoid the train layout becoming boring over time?
Are larger train layouts less boring?
- Thread starter homersimpsonlikestrains
- Start date
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
To keep from becoming boring is claim the entire room then build. If you have a basement, claim the whole thing then design and build.
homersimpsonlikestrains
Active Member
So basically the larger the layout is, the less boring it will be?
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
Absolutely. The more stuff and area you can model, the greater the variety of stuff to look at.
Check my YouTube page at
EasternSP Rails for a large railroad.
Check my YouTube page at
EasternSP Rails for a large railroad.
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
I don't know. A simple loop around the room is going to be about as boring as a loop on an L-shape, or one on a 4x8 foot table. I don't think it is the size as much as the track design and how one runs the trains there on. Thinking of the tiny John Allen "Time Saver" layout and the "Jerome and Southwestern 4x8. True that with a larger space one can fit more interesting elements into it, so it reduces how clever one must be to keep things fresh.
santafewillie
Same Ol' Buzzard
I have to agree with Iron Horseman, size in model layouts has nothing to do with whether or not it is boring. It is all dependent on what keeps your interest. To some, myself included, running in a loop or continuous running can be boring. Other modelers like the concept. Neither of us is right or wrong. I prefer switching and even though I can do continuous running, I rarely do that.
Patrick
Alien Attitude.
I agree with both Willie and Iron Horseman, Size has nothing to do with boring. Larger only means you can put more stuff, but not everyone likes more stuff.
While larger than 4X8, my layout is a couple of simple loops hooked together with a yard. I'm working like a snail to add to it. Still trying to figure out what I want to do.
While larger than 4X8, my layout is a couple of simple loops hooked together with a yard. I'm working like a snail to add to it. Still trying to figure out what I want to do.
wvg_ca
semi flaccid member
my layout is about 15' x 16' ...all built up with foam for about a 9 " high to low ..
mind you i have NO electrical , manual ground throws , pretty simple on the accessories part of it
building are pretty simple as well, most of the scenery is done with plain sandblasting sand.
mind you i have NO electrical , manual ground throws , pretty simple on the accessories part of it
building are pretty simple as well, most of the scenery is done with plain sandblasting sand.
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JeffH
Well-Known Member
Yep, I agree too. Large is only better than small if you make it better... But at least you have an opportunity make it better with more space. I like to run trains, but I'm not at all into coupling and decoupling cars in yards. Maybe I would like that better in a bigger scale, but with N scale, I just don't get any thrills out of dropping off or picking up cars at industries. That may change with time, but right now I really just prefer to watch the trains run.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
The nice thing about a larger layout is that you can make it as interesting or boring as you want, I'm the same mind, I don't like the whole couple/uncouple scenario, I have a small yard, simply because I'm too lazy to keep taking rolling stock in and out of boxes, two stations, two loops and a passing loop for an "express" so far I've managed to run three trains simultaneously without having a collision, and that's more excitement than I can handle on some days.
I've tried making it more interesting to look at by adding structures, (I think Willie said he has about 200 on his, and still adding, but don't quote me) and I'm still adding stuff. But I mainly like to watch my trains run.
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
I think the major difference between an interesting layout and one that gets boring is the scenery. Most layouts remain in a plywood world state until the kiddies completely destroy it or it becomes a storage area.
Adding a purpose for the rail service is always a good start. Industries that are hard to reach will get little exchange of traffic while industries that are easy to switch cars in and out of will get more attention.
Just running trains while doing something else nearby is always good. Despite what the European market says about loopers, it's part of the hobby.
Adding a purpose for the rail service is always a good start. Industries that are hard to reach will get little exchange of traffic while industries that are easy to switch cars in and out of will get more attention.
Just running trains while doing something else nearby is always good. Despite what the European market says about loopers, it's part of the hobby.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
I agree, too many "experts" saying it has to have "form" or "purpose", to me the purpose is to enjoy and have fun, if your enjoying what your doing, to me, your doing it right, I quite like the noise of a train running in the background while I'm doing something else railroad related.
And if the day ever comes when my layout is perfect, the day after, that's the day I'll rip it all out and start again.
Take a look at this thread about my 2 ft by 12 ft HO scale switching layout. Almost a year after I finished the layout, I still enjoy operating it. You definitely do not necessarily need a large layout for it to remain interesting.
On the contrary, I have seen people start work on large layouts who get discouraged or distracted half way - and the layout never gets completed.
On the contrary, I have seen people start work on large layouts who get discouraged or distracted half way - and the layout never gets completed.
The thing about this hobby is that YOU can make it into just about everything that has been mentioned.
If you are "new" to the hobby - only You can decide which avenue you wish to follow.
I have been "in and out" of RR modeling for 73 years and what started as a Marx set grew to basement almost full and several clubs, both HO and O scale, and I still can't really decide which aspect I prefer? I can still sit and become mesmerized by just a simple oval and watching a train going in a circle -- just call me simple minded,
It's a great hobby and ONLY YOU can make it into what you prefer!
If you are "new" to the hobby - only You can decide which avenue you wish to follow.
I have been "in and out" of RR modeling for 73 years and what started as a Marx set grew to basement almost full and several clubs, both HO and O scale, and I still can't really decide which aspect I prefer? I can still sit and become mesmerized by just a simple oval and watching a train going in a circle -- just call me simple minded,
It's a great hobby and ONLY YOU can make it into what you prefer!
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
I don't think I would ever just rip it all out and start over. Lots of money invested. I think I would just find ways to modify what I have.
For instance, I conduct op sessions every couple months or so on my empire. I can change out the industries so the op sessions aren't delivering the same freight to the same sidings. A typical op session will deliver 40 to 50 cars of freight to the 14 or so industrial sidings or well over 80 - 100 cars of intermodal, coal and auto racks.
I'm currently adding an abandoned round house with turntable which will hold a few cars on one of sidings and will park a few steamers in the storage tracks.
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trailrider
Well-Known Member
A few things to consider right off the bat: How much room do you have for either? Is there enough room with a 4 x 8 so that you can move clear around it in case of a derailment, or to enable yourself or guests to see all aspects of the scenery? If you go with an L-shaped layout in the same room/area, do you plan on having return (NOT reversing) loops so you can run continuously, if you so desire? In addition to the main line, what sort of spurs, sidings and industry served by them will you want to have. Some industries can take up more room than others. Are you planning to have a couple of stations for a passenger train to stop at? How long (how many cars) are you planning on having on a single train? Passenger cars can take up a lot of the length of a train, especially 85-ft. versus 72-75 ft. Freight cars can run from 40-ft to 85-ft, and some steam locomotives can be as little as 5-inches to a foot or more. Another consideration is the room required for the curves. A semi-circle of 18" radius track will require at least 38 inches outside-outside, plus leaving additional to the edge of the layout. Twenty-two inch curves should allow a full 48 inches to the edge of the layout in case of spills!
My own layout is in a dedicated 14' x 13'6" (inside) room. Because of needing to access certain areas, I use about 10 feet x 13'6" with a folded dogbone with a 4-ft wide peninsula in the middle, leaving 2'6" aisles. On one side I have a return loop system with 20" radius curves on the outside track, 18" and 15" inside. On the other side of the room, the return curve is around a small yard. I model the 1940-1959 era, with several passenger trains, modelled after the ones I rode as a kid. My longest train is the Denver Zephyr consisting of a mix of 72' and 85' streamlined cars pulled by an E5A and E7B diesel lashup. This is about ten feet long! I also run original "shovel nose" Zephyr's. I do have freight trains I run sometimes, including an 8-car unit coal train with caboose, that I run between a coal mine and a coal-fired electrical plant.
So, you see, there are a lot of possibilities. One thing you could do is layout track on the floor to see what you might like, before you start cutting wood.
Green board ahead!
My own layout is in a dedicated 14' x 13'6" (inside) room. Because of needing to access certain areas, I use about 10 feet x 13'6" with a folded dogbone with a 4-ft wide peninsula in the middle, leaving 2'6" aisles. On one side I have a return loop system with 20" radius curves on the outside track, 18" and 15" inside. On the other side of the room, the return curve is around a small yard. I model the 1940-1959 era, with several passenger trains, modelled after the ones I rode as a kid. My longest train is the Denver Zephyr consisting of a mix of 72' and 85' streamlined cars pulled by an E5A and E7B diesel lashup. This is about ten feet long! I also run original "shovel nose" Zephyr's. I do have freight trains I run sometimes, including an 8-car unit coal train with caboose, that I run between a coal mine and a coal-fired electrical plant.
So, you see, there are a lot of possibilities. One thing you could do is layout track on the floor to see what you might like, before you start cutting wood.
Green board ahead!
I started with a 16x12 bent dogbone and soon learned I wanted more. I have expanded dramatically but have decided I wanted a double mainline, which is not easy considering my initial layout. IMO bigger is better but you need RR tasks. I have incorporated a live coal system which aid the task list. A double main line allows continuous running an uninterrupted train(s) while delivering coal to the powerhouse. Be creative.
The less boring layout are the ones that do what you like and give you more activity. Generally larger layouts have more opportunities for different things and therefore can be less boring. But if the layout isn't doing things you find interesting, then more of that won't be more interesting.
For example, if you find watching trains orbit a 4x8 layout boring, then you will probably find watching trains orbit a 4x16 or 10x10 layout boring too.
I find switching interesting, so there are smaller layouts with a lot of switching that are interesting, as well as larger layouts that are also interesting.
For example, if you find watching trains orbit a 4x8 layout boring, then you will probably find watching trains orbit a 4x16 or 10x10 layout boring too.
I find switching interesting, so there are smaller layouts with a lot of switching that are interesting, as well as larger layouts that are also interesting.
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Everybody above is on the right track. This is your world and you command what it is to be. What you might think about is what you want or need to make you happy. Make a two column list. Most of us call that "Givens and Druthers" and has been around and used for *years*. Google it. Givens pretty much is the restrictions of your build, while Druthers is what you want to accomplish.
My G&D are different than everybody else's.
For instance for Givens, I have a specific size space with a ton of HO stuff collected over the years. Have electrical power so air and heat is present. I was raised in the Pacific Northwest and brings fond memories with that.
Druthers is the bigger list and is where you make the railroad earn a living, where it is located in time and space and what special stuff is to be included. Mine are:
Long train capable.
One large classification yard, with smaller yards for certain towns.
CTC over APB for additional main line realism.
Long main line run for multiple movements either direction. This is where the computer control could come in.
Mountainous scenery
Time is 1968 to 1974 as I like those early diesels. I do have a few dash 9's and above that will probably get exercise when nobody is watching to keep the rivet counters at bay.
Space currently is a 30 by 40 outbuilding.
The above and some other stuff to keep me busy for the remainder of being on this world.
I have just sat and watched what ever train just go round-n-round and to me it does get boring.
It all boils down to what I want as it should for you. Keep in mind that none of it is caste in stone and can be changed at a whim. Every smaller layout I have started over the years brought a smile. None ever got finished as life got in the way for some reason or another. Those layouts are chalked up as practice and learning.
Just remember that if you are having fun, you are doing it right. Look ahead no matter what you do as you can form a smaller layout for now, then expand it at a later time. Or, you can pitch the whole works, or keep buildings, power and rolling stock and start again. You do not have to do this in a day or week although it is a good thing to get trains running as soon as ya can.
My G&D are different than everybody else's.
For instance for Givens, I have a specific size space with a ton of HO stuff collected over the years. Have electrical power so air and heat is present. I was raised in the Pacific Northwest and brings fond memories with that.
Druthers is the bigger list and is where you make the railroad earn a living, where it is located in time and space and what special stuff is to be included. Mine are:
Long train capable.
One large classification yard, with smaller yards for certain towns.
CTC over APB for additional main line realism.
Long main line run for multiple movements either direction. This is where the computer control could come in.
Mountainous scenery
Time is 1968 to 1974 as I like those early diesels. I do have a few dash 9's and above that will probably get exercise when nobody is watching to keep the rivet counters at bay.
Space currently is a 30 by 40 outbuilding.
The above and some other stuff to keep me busy for the remainder of being on this world.
I have just sat and watched what ever train just go round-n-round and to me it does get boring.
It all boils down to what I want as it should for you. Keep in mind that none of it is caste in stone and can be changed at a whim. Every smaller layout I have started over the years brought a smile. None ever got finished as life got in the way for some reason or another. Those layouts are chalked up as practice and learning.
Just remember that if you are having fun, you are doing it right. Look ahead no matter what you do as you can form a smaller layout for now, then expand it at a later time. Or, you can pitch the whole works, or keep buildings, power and rolling stock and start again. You do not have to do this in a day or week although it is a good thing to get trains running as soon as ya can.
Selector
Well-Known Member
No. Boring comes from lack of complexity. A small layout can offer complexity, but it takes understanding of real rail operations, imagination and patience to craft it. A huge layout that's just a loop of tracks will soon become boring. This is not universal as some are quite content with a loop of track on a sheet of plywood. But, most of us soon realize that we want more out of our model experience. We want something close to prototypical operations. This means some switching, some running, some maintenance, some passenger, some freight....you get the idea.
I don't think anyone would call the Gorre & Daphetid by John Allen a boring layout. It was quite small, but maybe 'compact' is more correct.
