Alternatives to foam

[Hathaway Browne]

Well I've come the realisation that using insulation foam/polystyrene boards/styrene sheet (whatever you prefer to call them ) is just a non starter for me (as I live in the UK).

So I'm contemplating using thin chipboard sheets to gain the height I need on my new layout (HO.6X8).

Trouble is I've got limited woodwork knowledge (last time I did any was at High school over a decade ago).

Am I being to ambitious? Are there any alternatives to foam or the chipboard bench work?

Or is the "wooden way" the better way? I'm trying to get a variation in scenery levels (but keeping the track on the flat).

Answers on a postcard.

 

[Trussrod]

Hi Hathaway,

I've had to go that route too over using regular plywood but feel that for the Sub road bed it should be fine and certainly is a lot les expensive. If your planning on having your track work climb any grades, as I am with my layout, I'd stick with chip board that is close to 1/2" thick along with using an L girder main table frame work with cross stringers about every 10 to 12" apart
to attach the risers to so you can gradually elevate the track road bed once cut out from the Chip board.

I have a some pictures on this site showing my table work and they can be adjusted to accomodate any layout by adding additional main tables as needed.

Hope this gives you a better idea?

 

[UP2CSX]

If the track itself doesn't have to climb any grades, why not just use the crumpled newspaper, masking tape, and plaster cloth technicque? It works fine for scenery where you're not having to support a load like a train.

 

[Selector]

You can use crumpled up newspaper as filler and support below aluminium window screen (or plastic if it works and is cheaper), and then you can overlay the screen with a goop comprising fine vermiculite, plaster of paris, and Portland Cement in ratios 4/2/1 respectively. Don't want to use screen? Try cardboard strips woven like basket weaving and either stapled or hot-glued so that they don't budge. Same filler below it all for support as before...newspaper. In this case, though, you'd overlay the strips of cardboard with paper towel and slather on the same goop as above, or plaster of paris by itself, even papier mache has been used by many people.

The trick is to be easy on yourself so that you have some fun, some learning, and lots of success. So take your time, be patient as you learn how to do this, take lots of breaks, and you will achieve your aim. Plan ahead a bit, and make sure you know how to form the surface that you want. Later, you can cast plaster rocks and glue them to the surface you create with more plaster.

Good luck.

 

[AndrewC]

Hathaway, please stay away from chip board. For building baseboards its crap! In our humid climate, ply is much better. MDF if you must but its heavy and you will need a particle mask when cutting it.

There is no real reason you can't use styrofoam. Its available just not as easy to find. (4D Models in London, hint hint) Or check on the Dow website for suppliers near you.

 

[Trussrod]

I'll have to agree that I'd much prefer Plywood over the chip board but the Chip board is made with resin type glue to hold the wood particle/chips to gether and shouldn't take on much of any extra mositure but as a safety measure you can always coat the boards with varnish to seal it more. I would think Plywood would also require the same varnish treatment if your in a very moist inviorment.

Btw: My use of Chip Board is for the Sub road bed and on top of that I placing Sound Board for my layout surface and ground level areas and will use Cork Rroadbed over it for the main line. That way I get away from any irregularities of the Chip Board.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Thanks for the responses everyone! I think I may have used the wrong name for the product I intend to use. Its not so much chipboard (where you can see the 'flakes' glued together) but rather its a thin wood that's quite smooth on the top side, but its rough underneath. Some old drawers I've seen use it as a drawer base. Maybe that's plywood...I'm not really up to speed on the names..

EDIT: It might be particle board. I have a small amount of it in the garage, smooth on both sides, but where there's a rough cut it looks like ripped cardboard. Although on the outside it looks like MDF.

 

[kenw]

there's OSB: Oriented Strand Board which is made up of very large wood chunks glued together. It is very strong and usually waterproof and very heavy. it doesn't warp and therein lies a major plus. very common in home construction on this side of the pond at least.

and there's particle board: glued wood sawdust and very small chips, like grain of sand-sized.....it is not dimensionally stable and will sag without a lot of support, it warps and swells at the very smell of water and it is even heavier than OSB or solid wood as it is mostly glue. Avoid it like the plague. It is common in inexpensive furniture, often covered with vinyl wood grain or as the bottom of drawers.

the old standby plywood: is actually distinct layers of thin but solid and real wood sheets glued together. Each layer is like 1/8" (sorry, we still use your old system...) and each layer is oriented with the grain at 90 degrees to the next. Usually sold in 1/8" thickness increments, 1/4" is 2 layers, 3/8 is 3, ad nauseum... exterior grades use waterproof glues, interior grades don't. Based on glue, wood type and other variations, cost is all over the map.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Firstly, don't worry, Imperial is the better measurement system. Can't be doing with that European metric nonsense.

Sounds like I need to go down the local on another reccie see how small I can get plywood boards (so I can fit them in my hatchback).

 

[Dualcore]

Hathaway, what you have described sounds like finished hardwood panels. One side is finished in a waterproof coating, the other looks like particle board. I used this as the lining for my shower walls. There are plastic runners and caps that fit over the edges and fixed in place with latex caulk. I used Elmer's Wood Glue to affix it to the drywall in my bathroom. It makes a perfect shower stall.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

That sounds like the stuff. Well its off the list now anyway. I went and checked again and its too flimsy. The other alternative is MDF and the phrase "10 foot barge pole / not going to touch with" springs to mind.

So the quest for affordable foam in the UK continues...

...and the closest I can find is this:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Polystyrene-Sheet/Polystyrene-Insulation-Board/invt/210823
But I can't tell if its right or not from the poor image!

 

[AndrewC]

NO!!!!! Stay away from the Wickes stuff. That is the open cell "bead" crap that is more like packing foam. Not suitable for baseboards.

You want either the blue from Dow, or the pink stuff. Start here to get your closest stockist.
http://building.dow.com/europe/uk/resource/gbtsskin.htm

There is also 4D models which stocks it in smaller amounts for model builders. RF33001 is the 1" thick stuff in a 2' by 4' sheet. £11.05 . They also stock a 2' by 8' sheet for £17.95

http://www.yellowcatshop.co.uk/shop...state=32769&tabcatid=3500106&subcatid=3500111

Something else they stock is the green foam. Not good for structural baseboards its perfect for scenery. This is softer and easier to cut than the blue and a bit crumbly so you can do some shaping by thumb pressure, but not as much as florist foam.

Hope this is of help.

 

[Dualcore]

Yes, hardwood panels have less rigidity than 1/4in plywood. I have MDF on mine. Mine got some water damage at one end; the glue holding the MDF to my plywood seperated, leaving my plywood base exposed. So much for MDF. Have decided to use WS inclines and risers when I need to raise the RR above plywood level, otherwise the roadbed, or in this case my pre-made track gets the latex caulk treatment directly to the plywood.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Thanks for that link Andrew! That first one might be just the ticket, and there's a dealer not to far away! Pity I don't live near London for the second one as that's quite good as well. Can't see them being able to post it though....

 

[AndrewC]

Thanks for that link Andrew! That first one might be just the ticket, and there's a dealer not to far away! Pity I don't live near London for the second one as that's quite good as well. Can't see them being able to post it though....

Whereabouts are you? If you aren't too remote from civilisation it may be possible to grab what you need and meet up some time. 4D is about 20 mins from me.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

I'm up in the deepest darkest West Midlands. Thanks for the offer though.

I'm going to try the one listed with Dow to see if they've got anything.