Modeltrainsweathered changing


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CP9302 said:
Anyone that joined after August 1st 2008 basically gets a free year, so don't expect to get the letter until you've been there a year.

I'm a member at MTW, and have not had the bad experiences some of you have. I've always received constructive criticism and knowledgeable answers to my questions. MTW is not for everyone, you need a thick skin and to be looking to improve, not just get a pat on the back.

In my opinion, most forums are very diluted and full of pat on the back people because, as was stated earlier in this thread, most people don't want to hear criticism about something they've work hard on and are proud of. And that is all well and good, but I like MTW because I know I can post something there and get an honest critical opinion about it.

Both styles of forum atmosphere have there place and may not appeal to everyone all of the time. I hope this $20 per year fee doesn't scare too many people away, but with the current economic times, it may hurt things.
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Well said Fred. I also am a member and have found what I have learned from those guys has been great. You do need to have thick skin but I like to hear the read deal and not just more BS.
I know I have posted there often and may seem like my comments may have been rude but I hope everyone knows I only try to tell the truth as I can see it. My best friend for years once told me if he wanted to know the truth on something he would as me because I never sugar coat it.
Please forgive me if I've seemed rude before as I only try to be honest.
Dave
 
Out of the 1800, maybe 10% would be active. That brings the number down to 180. With any luck, 50% will buy in. That leaves 90 active members. That turns out to be $1800. Hardly worth the effort.

I've moderated on a number of different sites, both free and pay sites. I found that the free sites that turned into pay sites quickly fall. If one has a site, the best way to turn it into a "cash cow" is to sell advertising. And you needn't charge all that much. It would involve linking to the client's site, and for good measure, add a cross link back to your site. You won't get rich, but you can pay the bills and add bandwidth and server upgrades.

Potential clients look at traffic and hits. I don't know the numbers here, but would imagine that they are pretty good. Number of members means squat, but could be used in the bargaining process. Active members, total subscribers logging on each day, post counts, internet hits, that's what will make you money. That is what potential advertisers look at.

I moderated a forum that had right at 32,000 subscribers. Of that 32,000, maybe 10% were active. The"owner/administrator" decided to make it a pay site. Almost one year to the day, the site was no more. I quit moderating when it became a pay site, the rules changed, and I figured that if the 'owner' was making money, the moderators should too. To that end, he disagreed.

With the attitudes that I saw on Modeltrainsweathered dot com, I doubt that many will cough up the $20, fewer will join and even fewer will care.

Bob
 
I joined about year and half ago. I went there a few times. asked a few questions about weathering and all I got in response were start ass answers in return... I won't pay. guys were a bunch of stuck up snobs and rivit counters in my opinion
 
railBuilderDhd said:
Well said Fred. I also am a member and have found what I have learned from those guys has been great. You do need to have thick skin but I like to hear the read deal and not just more BS.
I know I have posted there often and may seem like my comments may have been rude but I hope everyone knows I only try to tell the truth as I can see it. My best friend for years once told me if he wanted to know the truth on something he would as me because I never sugar coat it.
Please forgive me if I've seemed rude before as I only try to be honest.
Dave
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Im not saying that i didnt appreciate what i learned over there from those who actually took the time to critics my work and give me pointers on how to improve, thats exactly what i was looking for. You see its alot easier to take some tough criticism when you get answers on how to improve and what to do to take it to the next level. I just found i was getting more replies of only what i was doing wrong with no explanations of how i could improve VS. what i was doing wrong and how i could improve. That really did it in for me.

Like i said, its a very tight small group over there on that forum, and if you wernt one of the first members, arnt a expert in the weathering department, or do not dramatically improve on what little tips you do get from the few people who are actually willing to help, then it just seams like you get your head ripped off and who wants to be a part of such a thing like that, especially if you have to pay.

Im with the others, id be willing to say that this subscription to that forum wont last long at all, and i think by next year they will have no choice but to close it or make it free again. It was already a pain in the a** to join when it was free, my account took over a week to be approved so i could post, had a buddy of mine tell me he also joined a few months back, he said it was the same for him, over a week to be approved to even he post there. That pretty much drew hime away. I wonder what it will be like now that you will have to pay!
 
I learnt alot from reading the posts in Modeltrainsweathered. Enough that I now feel comfortable detailing any of my models. I thank Rich and the others there, very much for that. But at the same time I feel having to pay for the site is wrong. These forums are made up from evryones threads and posts. If you want to makemoney on your site do it with funds from advertising, not from taking your members hard earned money. Without them, interest will fade fast. On there website it says they had over 9 million hits last year. It would be interesting to see what next years figures look like.
 
rlundy90 said:
On there website it says they had over 9 million hits last year. It would be interesting to see what next years figures look like.
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The problem is that you can find this website just by googling "Weathering Model Trains" ect., so it is easy to stumble across for the newbie. They also pay for advertising in Model Railroader Hobbyist, but its not until you navigate to their site and see that it is a closed shop and that you have to have a detailed resume to join. It's at that point that 8.9 million of those hits go the other way to the free forums. Like it was said before a group of guys this tight should just stay in their local club and keep their forum excusive to themselves. I wouldn't give them 0.02 cents for a membership, then again I am not that serious about model trains. I find them enjoyable in my spare time and would freely share any info I had to anyone regardless of their current skill level. It is this open source attitude that will keep the hobby alive, not the pay for the info type that would kill it if it were the norm. Just my opinion.:D

Oh and thanks again Laidoffsick for the free info you gave me on the weathering you did on your Locomotives in the showing off section.
 
I've gone to that website on numerous occasions and, yes, seen some things that verged into personal flame sessions but I also saw alot of solid tips coming out of others there.

One point that sometimes I fall over is the idea of there being a professionalism in the field. The problem being that a few of the people on that who bark about this generally are the least professional --- in their conduct. If someone is asking for a critique of their work then that is what they should be getting. No flames attached. A few pictures should show pretty much the subject at hand. The thing would be to tell the weathering newby BOTH what was done well and what could be improved. All too sadly this is hardly done. What we frequently see are those responses that give people the impression that there are a few emotionally challenged individuals in there.

There are a lot of alternatives out there with the same issues, so it is not just purely a mtw thing---
 
This is my first post here but I have been lurking for quite a while. Learning and picking up tips and ideas for a future layout im planning. This is a great forum and I enjoy being here.:)

Anyways, I feel compelled to respond to this post as I joined Modeltrainsweathered around the same time as here a few months ago. Figured I would at least learn some painting and weathering since I dont have a layout. I really like thier forum but the problem is unless your already a seasoned weathering veteran. Its a real pain to find any good advise or even a how to do this or use that product type of post. Its always responses or posts like "I accomplished that by using this product". Nothing on how you mix or work with meterials. I guess they expect beginners to just pick up cars and just start working with techniques. Thats fine but it would be nice to get some good starter information on some of the techniques before hand if you see what I mean.

In the end, its a great forum but not the easiest for beginners to find the information they are looking for in creating rust streaks, rusty roofs, etc. Sure, there is a good how to on how a N&W hopper was weathered (great article by the way), and a good list of meterials you should get. The rest just seems that for a beginner, you have to keep searching and hanging out in order "pick up" the information you need along the way. Or you get posts with pictured models done by people and very little in explaination on how any of it was done.

If or when it becomes a pay sight. Even at 20 dollars a year. Ill pass and take an extra 10 dollars on top of that 20 and get something like Scott Masons how-to video on weathering freight cars instead.
 
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You are right ChevelleSSguy and if you search for my posts there you'll notice I've asked those questions and often got good help. At one point I just started asking them how they did things since I didn't know and they helped me learn. I know sometimes I felt like a a-hole that didn't know shLt but I learned that way and they really did help. I'm far from being as good at weathering as most of them and my work is not to their standards but I like were I am with it and it's better now thanks to their input.

I think each site MTW, here, railroad line and others have a lot to offer and glad to be a part of many sites. I have learned one thing over the past 2 years in the model railroad hobby that the guys (and gals) in this hobby are more often then not good people and willing to help. I'm glad to be a part of MTW site as well as here and the other sites.
Dave
 
A poster over on MR forums claims he's received an email that the MTW site was hacked and that the whole issue is bogus. A subsequent poster says he went to the site and still sees the notification of the new subscription policy.
 
Selector said:
A poster over on MR forums claims he's received an email that the MTW site was hacked and that the whole issue is bogus. A subsequent poster says he went to the site and still sees the notification of the new subscription policy.
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I just went to the site. The $20 "deal" is still up. I doubt the site was hacked, as their admin would surely shut it down for fear of virus spread. I think that there is a case of "delusions of granduer" here.

If they are advertising the site in MR, that ain't cheap.

I wish them luck, they are gonna need it to stay alive.

Bob
 
If you want to learn weathering, you don't have to pay for it. And you certainly don't have to put up with a clubhouse full of four year olds.

Find a photo of a real freight car, preferably one you already have a model of, and do your best to copy it using whatever methods you choose. The key is to copy the photo, not imagine what rust looks like or how a dust storm just blew across the freight yard. Just copy the photo, and do it over and over again. Do it for a year or two and you won't need criticism from the clubhouse. You'll know their "secrets" and you won't waste any of your valuable modeling time sitting in front of the glowing rectangle looking for shortcuts, tricks or wisdom.

The guys at the MTW clubhouse learned weathering the way I just described. I was on that forum from day one (or at least week one), but grew tired of the nastiness and the flood of direct emails off the forum. I have a job, a wife and two kids. And I play with trains when I'm not enjoying being with my family or slaving away at my job. I'd like to keep it that way. The information/commentary/ego stroking with that site wasn't worth it when it was free (I haven't been back in years and forgot I was a member there until I got the email) and it certainly won't be worth it at any fee.
 
Not to mention..... weathedred cars and engines are like finger prints, no 2 are identical. There's no predicting how a car is going to rust or whether the it will blow a bearing and sling grease all over itself. I usally take a couple photos and come up with my own combination. I also work on the railroad so I see this stuff up close and personal everyday, I sometimes wonder.... "how the hell did that happen to that car?"
 
I know of a few of them that squabble amongst themselves and it really isnt interesting to hear all the mudslinging going on there. I have a acct from over a yr and a half ago, and cant say that I miss not logging in there for over 6 months now.:cool:
 
Here's an example of posting there
I posted a link to this site which was the one where a member tried using highlighters for a quick weathering job. It went like this
My Post
Over at the Modelrailroad forums I ran across this technique that involves using Highlighters. Anyone ever hear of this?
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13530

Second response post:
interesting. i bet college kids are gonna start shoving freight cars into empty crystal palace bottles for their black light shows

Third Response Post:
HMLTNBLUE: Truthfully?....I don't care much for it!... More to the Point? I think It's Stupid! It's sort of like doing detailed portraits w/ an Etch-a-sketch*!..What's the point...This is as close to "spray & go" weathering as it gets IMO...

Fourth response Post:
I agree with Gary. It sounds like he's doing it for himself, and that's fine if he's happy with it. I wonder if dullcote would eat that crap alive like it will Sharpie marker?

I'm starting to notice that "weathering" is beginning to have a lot of people looking for that instant gratification. Weathering (or Realization?) is going to give back what you put into it. It's not like a video game or a hand-held wireless whateverthehell.

Fifth response post quoting the 2nd post:
Thanks, Jeremy! I just placed my order, the S/F would look great lining those and I'd bet they'd look real too!

I'm gonna be an eBay god thanks to you!

Sixth Post:
i agree paul... to me it seems everyone wants that instant weathering elixir... "hey, just dump this on and WHA-LAAAAA" fast food mentality...

i mean, would anyone expect that when laying track or ballasting their layout? no one wants to study and actually take the time to make something realistic... instead they would rather make lists of 'techniques' and then they expect to have a REALISTICALLY weathered object when they complete the list rather than just looking at a picture and trying to replicate what they see, regardless of what's on the damn list...

there is an order to be sure... but the list comes AFTER you're done... not before...

Later in the thread:
Comon' Honestly...Here's a thought.... Michael Angelo hittin' the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel with Rattle cans and a few "Day-glo "sharpies!"
The Pope woulda had his ass!!!!

This is the typical of what people are talking about. Nothing constructive, just basic ridicule.
 
all right, first off all, i will start by saying i have 0 experience weathering (and for now 0 intent, i like my stuff shiny. for now...) but as with all stuff there are levels of experience. and it is natural for when intermediate thing offered for professional evaluation to get snappy responses from pros. pros are rarely into sharing knowledge. they just want to sharpen their proffecionality, they want to see proffecional grade work. and one does not sharpen his proportionality by evaluating intermediate works. it is true to any field and 10 folds when it comes to art. artists tend to be snobby, thats how it always was. ever tried to post your amateur picture at pro photo forum, you know what i mean.


so perhaps that weathering site is all pro club. it is natural they will not want to get distracted from their art and have sertain population. which perhaps thats what they will achieve by introducing fees.

yes it is not nice of them. while its nice to hang out with nice people, it is silly to say "ohhh, i went to hang out with (knowingly) nastier people and they were nastyier allrigt".
really? you think?

but again, i think they just worked out solution that suits them
 
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I posted a link to this site which was the one where a member tried using highlighters for a quick weathering job. It went like this
My Post
Over at the Modelrailroad forums I ran across this technique that involves using Highlighters. Anyone ever hear of this?
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13530

Second response post:
interesting. i bet college kids are gonna start shoving freight cars into empty crystal palace bottles for their black light shows

Third Response Post:
HMLTNBLUE: Truthfully?....I don't care much for it!... More to the Point? I think It's Stupid! It's sort of like doing detailed portraits w/ an Etch-a-sketch*!..What's the point...This is as close to "spray & go" weathering as it gets IMO...

Fourth response Post:
I agree with Gary. It sounds like he's doing it for himself, and that's fine if he's happy with it. I wonder if dullcote would eat that crap alive like it will Sharpie marker?

I'm starting to notice that "weathering" is beginning to have a lot of people looking for that instant gratification. Weathering (or Realization?) is going to give back what you put into it. It's not like a video game or a hand-held wireless whateverthehell.

Fifth response post quoting the 2nd post:
Thanks, Jeremy! I just placed my order, the S/F would look great lining those and I'd bet they'd look real too!

I'm gonna be an eBay god thanks to you!

Sixth Post:
i agree paul... to me it seems everyone wants that instant weathering elixir... "hey, just dump this on and WHA-LAAAAA" fast food mentality...

i mean, would anyone expect that when laying track or ballasting their layout? no one wants to study and actually take the time to make something realistic... instead they would rather make lists of 'techniques' and then they expect to have a REALISTICALLY weathered object when they complete the list rather than just looking at a picture and trying to replicate what they see, regardless of what's on the damn list...

there is an order to be sure... but the list comes AFTER you're done... not before...

Later in the thread:
Comon' Honestly...Here's a thought.... Michael Angelo hittin' the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel with Rattle cans and a few "Day-glo "sharpies!"
The Pope woulda had his ass!!!!

This is the typical of what people are talking about. Nothing constructive, just basic ridicule.[/QUOTE]

that was me there in post #2 and post #6...

to me the thought of going and basically painting a car with a highlighter is kind of odd... other than the fact that you can't really get what i think is an accurate fade out of it but you also discolor the lettering if it is white... i think this was mentioned in the thread but you only posted the answers in which the technique was poo pooed ... also, has the fellow dullcote'd the car since highlighting it to see if the dullcote interacts with the ink in the highlighters? many times you want to dullcote between layers of weathering in order to seal what you have already done...

you probably didn't get much of what you wanted because a) you asked if WE HAD HEARD OF IT you found out... you didn't ask if we had any opinions on it or if we thought it would work... you got those anyway and i guess we should have just answered 'NO'... b) i personally wasn't going to give feedback on the technique because what's the point? is something i say going to keep him from doing what works for him? more than likely not... so what's the point in talking about the merits of something i would never try to do myself or something i do not think would work for the kind of weathering i do? keep in mind that i think the idea of putting hairspray on a car is just as odd and i've expressed that opinion as well... though when i joined MTW 4 years ago, that was all the craze... hairspray and powders... ugh... does anyone do that anymore?

anyway... excuse me for trying to be a little lighthearted with my first comments regarding this technique... i guess i should have been serious and stoic and tried to convey in the most strenuous and professional manner my conviction that this technique has little merit beyond that in which it is being used for; to quickly and lightly discolor some rolling stock... kick me, i'm human... and all i could remember was my college buds putting highlighters in empty liquor bottles and filling them with water...

i think it's interesting that on at least two separate forums people are talking about MTW going to a pay site... it seems most of the posts i have read have been rather negative and i find that unfortunate... i honestly have not seen the kinds of negative behavior i have been hearing about and i have checked that site regularly if not daily for years... to be honest, there are a few members that kind of irritate each other but i think that is more about what one member or members contribute to the site in relation to what they take from the site...

and as far as the critiques that go on, i personally try to help anyone that asks for it... if someone asks what i think i'll tell them... if you want to know how i would fix something i'll tell you that too but if i say your streaks are too light or dark how hard is it to figure out how to change that? if i say your rust has too much texture, do i really have to take the time to explain how to tone it down? just do a little less of what you did to get to that point the next time... if you want to know, just ask and i'll gladly explain... i honestly don't see the rude, crass behavior that seems to accompany all these horror stories i keep reading about MTW...

when i joined that site i had no clue about trains or weathering but i read and lurked and found what worked for me... and it didn't exist on MTW... i looked at thousands of pictures of real rust... not just on boxcars or covered hoppers but on anything... and i posted what i did and received rather positive feedback... i wasn't a weathering 'god' and am still far from it but i didn't run away if someone said something of mine didn't look perfect, i went back to work and thanked them for taking the time to point out something i missed... it's always good to have another set of eyes look at what you do... conversely, have i been blunt in my feedback? yes but what's the point in telling someone they did great when they didn't? that only keeps them doing the same thing and never helps them to evolve and expand their skills... why do something wrong over and over again when you can learn to do it right the first time and expand on that? have i ever demeaned anyone personally? no, and the one time i saw someone do that i think they were kicked off the forum...

take it as you wish... to me MTW is a great place to learn and share ideas... anyone can learn how i do what i do, i'll freely explain it all and pretty much have at MTW... there are no patents held by me on my techniques but the one thing you all seem to forget is that a list of techniques is only as good as the person holding the brush... meaning that i don't see things the same way you may and i might notice things you miss or vice versa... i may have different skills than you do but you may employ what works for you to a higher degree than i could... there is no right or wrong way to get to the end result but the way the end result looks is what gets judged and critiqued... find out what works best and do that... then we'll talk... to me, that is what MTW is about...
 
I'm guessin' I'm a throwback. I use "powders" ...... along with anything else I can find, the better half's eye shadow, mascara, eye liner, dirt from the yard, pulverized lime(yeh, the fertilizer stuff), fruit juices(blackberry and mulberry work well), iron oxide(real rust) powder, food coloring, Lamp black, smoke from an acetylene torch, along with my "high tech" collection of air brushes and paints. And I've been known to use a "rattle can".

True artists make use of anything at hand and don't depend on one medium or method of delivery to accomplish an end.

Bob
 
Ahem...That's my car that the boys have been talking about. I've been weathering equipment for, oh, 40 years now, long before some of those guys were born. The use of highlighters is just one more tool in a large basket of things I use. Now, Mr. Head, the car was dull-coted before I weathered the car and afterwards. You apparently think that the folks at MTW are the only ones not stupid enough to test a technique on a junker car before trying it. Your posts were not lighthearted, they were mean. Why not spend a buck for some highlighters and see if they work rather than lumping this along with instant weathering in a can?

My objection to MTW is the self-appointed "experts". I've seen some your work. Mr. Head. Some of it is very good. Some of it is crap, and people there should say so. But, as long as you are one of the anointed, they save their venom for the newbie who needs to be taught a lesson. You say you are not a 'weathering god" but a review of your posts at MTW sure make you look like one. I'd be happy to go head to head with you on any weathering job you wanted to do but you're not worth the time. I say good riddance. At least those few who are still left next year will have to pay for the privilege of abusing one another. Oh, and when it comes answers about people asking for criticism, try some of those smart ass answers on your wife when she asks you about a new dress. With your attitude, I suspect you're already divorced or soon will be. It's call being civilized, something a lot of you folks haven't learned.
 
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