Running Bear's October 2025 Coffee Shop

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chadbag said:
That's a good deal with Modelbahn Union since they're run by the same guy who does DM-Toys and DM-Toys dies not subtract the VAT (or didn't last time I used them) but had cheaper flat rate shipping. (DM-Toys is their N scale concern -- some of the stuff is scale agnostic so you get store brand Modelbahn Union stuff from DM-Toys that is N or scale agnostic --- https://www.dm-toys.de/en/profile.html )

Lippe had the 27.50 euro flat rate UPS and that was always nice. I always made sure to place large orders at once to spread that shipping across a lot of items, so that shipping was inconsequential in the price of any item. Lippe has been my major go-to with Modellbahn Kramm being another one I've used multiple times. I've used DM-Toys (Modellbahn Union) for things on sale, for their store store brand DCC decoders (they have special versions of D&H decoders made for them with fewer functions etc and sold less expensively) and for things they have that no one else has in stock. German stuff has gotten a lot more expensive and is in any case a lot more expensive than Japanese so I've not done a shipment in a few years. My last was a DM-Toys that had a Fleischmann SBB locomotive on close out and 20 of their store brand DCC decoders. I really wanted their decoders but with their flat rate shipping I added the close out locomotive :)
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So it's interesting. I just went and did a sample order from DM-Toys and one from Modellbahn Union with shipment to the US. A single locomotive

DM-Toys did not remove VAT so the price was with VAT. The flat rate UPS/DHL was 20 euro. Modellbahn Union DID remove the VAT once I put in the shipping address in the USA but charged 35 euro for shipping. But the overall shipped price to the US was less than the shopping cart price for shipment inside the EU (and their 14-15 Euro flat rate shipping).

I always assumed that since the companies were connected that they had similar VAT policies for outside of Europe shipments. The sad thing is you can't leverage that for N scale because Modellbahn Union will send you to DM-Toys if you choose N scale from their products list.
 
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chadbag said:
and being police trade-ins. Most police departments aren't adventurous with things like firearms. They'll be 5.56 or 223 chambers. Most likely 5.56.

The hard part is that being short barrels, you need to permanently affix a muzzle device to make it 16" or have registered SBR receivers to put them on, and with the "constructive intent" BS just having one and a normal rifle can get you in trouble.
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It's pretty easy and fast (less than a month now) to get a Form 4 approval, for an SBR......unless you're in a non NFA state, then you just need to P&W a muzzle device to make it legal length.
 
chadbag said:
So it's interesting. I just went and did a sample order from DM-Toys and one from Modellbahn Union with shipment to the US. A single locomotive

DM-Toys did not remove VAT so the price was with VAT. The flat rate UPS/DHL was 20 euro. Modellbahn Union DID remove the VAT once I put in the shipping address in the USA but charged 35 euro for shipping. But the overall shipped price to the US was less than the shopping cart price for shipment inside the EU (and their 14-15 Euro flat rate shipping).

I always assumed that since the companies were connected that they had similar VAT policies for outside of Europe shipments. The sad thing is you can't leverage that for N scale because Modellbahn Union will send you to DM-Toys if you choose N scale from their products list.
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Have you tried logging in to MSL directly? This is a mock order on the MSL website for a Bemo locomotive. As you can see there is no VAT being charged. I did forget that they use Fed-Ex for €27,5 instead of UPS, buut it's the same rate.

screenshot-1761689719070.png
 


I didn't know they had a choice about VAT and that it couldn't be charged for purchases made from outside EU or UK. Rails and Kernow remove the VAT after you put in your address. I think Olivias was going to refund or remove later (but that's OBE since they got absorbed into Rails). Rails used to remove the VAT after you logged in but have since changed.
 
santafewillie said:
I could put a large inflatable beach ball in before putting the cover on. But I do want a limited amount of water on top to keep it from billowing up in the wind, which can cause damage.
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We used to tie a car inner tube off with a few strings to keep it centered in the pool. It stayed there all winter long holding up the cover, even when the ice and snow came.
 
RhB Michael said:
Have you tried logging in to MSL directly? This is a mock order on the MSL website for a Bemo locomotive. As you can see there is no VAT being charged. I did forget that they use Fed-Ex for €27,5 instead of UPS, buut it's the same rate.

View attachment 245868
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My issue is not with MSL (Lippe in my posts above). I've always had them VAT free and the "cheap" flat rate UPS shipping. Same with Modellbahn Kramm and a few other places. The only place I had issues with is DM-toys.de, which is the Modellbahn Union N scale outlet or partner. They charge VAT even for shipment into the US. It's been that way every time I've used them and I did a fake order today where I got to the very end of checking out without checking out and the end price had VAT. (But their flat rate shipping was less -- only 19.99 euro). So I assumed Modellbahn Union was the same since the companies are either owned by the same or are otherwise affiliated -- as can be seen in the link I posted above. Which was why when you said you didn't pay VAT on Modellbahn Union I had to go test it. I also did a test order on their website and indeed, they did take the VAT off though their flat rate shipping was 35 euro. For the one locomotive I did as a test the price without VAT plus the 35 euro shipping was still less than the European price for the unit, and that was not including shipping, which was another 15 euro.

So the whole thing was DM-toys still charging VAT and my surprise that Modellbahn Union doesn't since the companies are connected. Lippe has always not been a VAT charger and I've long had an online account wit them and get almost daily emails for them tempting me. Most of my Digikeijs DCC stuff, my Fleischmann/Roco LanMAUS controllers, a good percentage of my bought new Euro rolling stock, etc has all come from Lippe. There are some US based stores that I've gotten Euro stuff from --usuallyw hen they run close outs or sales as that's the only time their competitive, and like I said I also use ModellBahn Kramm occasionally and DM-Toys occasionally when they have a close out or to buy their discounted special editionDCC decoders in bulk.
 
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Marlin39 said:
It's pretty easy and fast (less than a month now) to get a Form 4 approval, for an SBR......unless you're in a non NFA state, then you just need to P&W a muzzle device to make it legal length.
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That's fast. The last Form 4s I did for stuff (not SBR -- fun switch or suppressors) was like 4-6 months or so. (And teh suppressor is the only thing I have left still :(

But it's still $200 for SBR -- I think the recent changes only affected suppressors. And you still have to jump through the hoops. Some day I'd like to register 1/2 dozen SBR lowers as I have 1/2 dozen or so projects in mind. Still on the long term project list.
 


Kusojiji said:
I didn't know they had a choice about VAT and that it couldn't be charged for purchases made from outside EU or UK. Rails and Kernow remove the VAT after you put in your address. I think Olivias was going to refund or remove later (but that's OBE since they got absorbed into Rails). Rails used to remove the VAT after you logged in but have since changed.
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They can charge you whatever they want. They don't have to pay the VAT to the government but in its place they do have much cheaper shipping. Otherwise they make some extra cash. It makes their online system easier to maintain when its the same price for everyone.

I asked the DM Toys guy that and he basically explained it that way. They use the extra funds to offset their cheaper than normal flat rate international shipping and other expenses related to shipping overseas (additional paperwork etc).
 
chadbag said:
That's fast. The last Form 4s I did for stuff (not SBR -- fun switch or suppressors) was like 4-6 months or so. (And teh suppressor is the only thing I have left still :(

But it's still $200 for SBR -- I think the recent changes only affected suppressors. And you still have to jump through the hoops. Some day I'd like to register 1/2 dozen SBR lowers as I have 1/2 dozen or so projects in mind. Still on the long term project list.
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I have good news for you!;)

The "Big Beautiful Bill," signed into law on July 4, 2025, eliminates the $200 NFA transfer tax for suppressors, short-barreled rifles (SBRs), and other regulated items, but this change takes effect on January 1, 2026. The bill does not remove these items from the NFA's registration requirements; the process of applying, being fingerprinted, undergoing a background check, and waiting for ATF approval will remain the same.
 
Marlin39 said:
I have good news for you!;)

The "Big Beautiful Bill," signed into law on July 4, 2025, eliminates the $200 NFA transfer tax for suppressors, short-barreled rifles (SBRs), and other regulated items, but this change takes effect on January 1, 2026. The bill does not remove these items from the NFA's registration requirements; the process of applying, being fingerprinted, undergoing a background check, and waiting for ATF approval will remain the same.
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Ah, I didn't know it covered SBRs. I knew it covered suppressors. Does it cover the fun switch guns? Not that it makes the gas any more affordable because the cost there is not the stamp tax, but the scarcity factor brought on by the NFA registry and the 86 GOPA restrictions on new NFA eligible fun switch guns. We need to work on the registry part to make real guns more affordable ;)

If I can get past my work woes and back on my feet I'll have to wait until Aero Precision has a sale on blem lowers and buy a stack and register them...

Then comes the expensive part. Building the uppers for them...
 
chadbag said:
My issue is not with MSL (Lippe in my posts above). I've always had them VAT free and the "cheap" flat rate UPS shipping. Same with Modellbahn Kramm and a few other places. The only place I had issues with is DM-toys.de, which is the Modellbahn Union N scale outlet or partner. They charge VAT even for shipment into the US. It's been that way every time I've used them and I did a fake order today where I got to the very end of checking out without checking out and the end price had VAT. (But their flat rate shipping was less -- only 19.99 euro). So I assumed Modellbahn Union was the same since the companies are either owned by the same or are otherwise affiliated -- as can be seen in the link I posted above. Which was why when you said you didn't pay VAT on Modellbahn Union I had to go test it. I also did a test order on their website and indeed, they did take the VAT off though their flat rate shipping was 35 euro. For the one locomotive I did as a test the price without VAT plus the 35 euro shipping was still less than the European price for the unit, and that was not including shipping, which was another 15 euro.

So the whole thing was DM-toys still charging VAT and my surprise that Modellbahn Union doesn't since the companies are connected. Lippe has always not been a VAT charger and I've long had an online account wit them and get almost daily emails for them tempting me. Most of my Digikeijs DCC stuff, my Fleischmann/Roco LanMAUS controllers, a good percentage of my bought new Euro rolling stock, etc has all come from Lippe. There are some US based stores that I've gotten Euro stuff from --usuallyw hen they run close outs or sales as that's the only time their competitive, and like I said I also use ModellBahn Kramm occasionally and DM-Toys occasionally when they have a close out or to buy their discounted special editionDCC decoders in bulk.
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I can't understand why they are charging you VAT. Their UPS cost has gon up since I last ordered. That will give me pause on my next actual order.

Here is another mock order from Modellbahn Union. Once again, zero VAT.

screenshot-1761698809575.png
 
RhB Michael said:
I can't understand why they are charging you VAT. Their UPS cost has gon up since I last ordered. That will give me pause on my next actual order.

Here is another mock order from Modellbahn Union. Once again, zero VAT.

View attachment 245874
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If you go back and read what I said, Modellbahn Union is NOT charging me VAT, but their sister company DM-Toys is. That is what surprised me. DM-Toys doesn't subtract the VAT so it surprised me that Modellbahn Union does since they are either two faces of the same company or in some other way related. I did tests today with both and MBU did NOT and DM Toys did. Go. back and read what I wrote in my previous post for more details.
 
migalyto said:
Or the City of Gary! ;)
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I've been in just the suburbs of Gary. As the whitest man alive I was more scared their than I was in Chicago. not to have bad humor but I don't think a KFC family bucket and some grape Kool aid would save me. BUT in the same manner I was raised in a town called whiteland indiana so I'm doomed from the start lol


AND BEFORE ANYONE LOSES THEIR EVER LOVING MIND I MEAN ALL THIS IN THE BEST WAY!!
 


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