Been in HO for 30+ years and slowly learning DCC. Old dog, new tricks etc. Have a zephry for temporary layout but getting reading for larger layout and will need a wireless DCC system. Will use hand throws whereever possible on switches. Want something "simple and easy" to use. I'm not into a lot of sophisticated programming or computer interfaces. Just operation of locos, consists, some speed adjustments etc. Would like some info from those in the know as to plusses and minuses to consider for each system. Thanks!
NCE Power Pro or Digitrax Super Chief??
- Thread starter jobfather
- Start date
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I suggest you look also at when that was last updated, in 06......
But, while you are looking at that page, do you notice where everyone elses systems are software upgradeable EXCEPT DIGITRAX.....
The constant problem I have with Digitrax decoders has to do with the DH123 and DH163, when I try to consist them with my NCE system. On NCE when I add a loco to a consist that has one of these decoders, the loco will start moving. Not at a really high setting, but if it's in the middle of a consist I'm building, you'll hear it start grinding. As soon as I'm finished with the consist build, and I nudge the throttle, it stops and then responds correctly. Same thing happens when I kill a consist. I have Genesis F units in ABBA consists with Digitrax 163 decoders in the A units and 123 decoders in the B units. The B units are more likely to misbehave in this manner, but I've had the 163s do it too. I also discovered while trying to set speed tables that modifying any CV setting on the main will make the 123/163 decoders start moving. It's not 100% of the time. It apparently is some incompatibility between how NCE sends the commands and the decoder misinterprets somehow. I have not had this happen running them on a Digitrax system (which uses Universal consisting anyway), nor with any other decoder (I use NCE and TCS mostly), nor with older Digitrax decoders (DH120, 121, 140, 142). Just the xx3 generation.
It's not enough to make me replace them all just yet. I do disable silent mode on the xx3 decoders (CV9=255) so they'll run with older decoders. Digitrax's silent mode cuts the default speed response almost in half!
Currently the only things I have with these decoders are Genesis F units. I think. I can live with them for now. Superfleet locos all get NCE or TCS decoders.
Andy
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wheeler1963
Wheeler's Trains
jobfather,
I was in your same boat about a week ago. A friend of mine installed lights and beacons and an NCE decoder on 4 of my units.
I've never had anything with DCC until now. He also got me a good deal on the NCE Power Cab set.
I have a 9' test track that I have hooked it up to. I'm like a kid in a toy store!!! I run an engine up, turn on headlights, beacons and really love it.
Now to you questions about easy and simple. Well not knowing anything about DCC until last week, I am very impressed with how easy this thing is to program and operate.
I'll assume the NCE Power Pro is more than what I have, this is just a basic starter set, but I'm sure it would be a nice one. Maybe some of the more informed DCC owners can chime in with some help.
I was in your same boat about a week ago. A friend of mine installed lights and beacons and an NCE decoder on 4 of my units.
I've never had anything with DCC until now. He also got me a good deal on the NCE Power Cab set.
I have a 9' test track that I have hooked it up to. I'm like a kid in a toy store!!! I run an engine up, turn on headlights, beacons and really love it.
Now to you questions about easy and simple. Well not knowing anything about DCC until last week, I am very impressed with how easy this thing is to program and operate.
I'll assume the NCE Power Pro is more than what I have, this is just a basic starter set, but I'm sure it would be a nice one. Maybe some of the more informed DCC owners can chime in with some help.
If your DCC system being wireless is the most important criteria, I suggest you look at the MRC Prodigy Advance. I thas a wireless throttle with rechargeable batteries with a built in recharger and can be used side by side with wired controllers. You can buy additional wireless thottles and use up to six walkarounds with one control station. MRC has done a pretty good job of getting a jump on wireless DCC.
Well I would say since you already have a Zephry I would go with the Super Chief. Then use the Zephry in a yard and have it hooked up with the Super Chief and be a stationary throttle. And since you are already getting use to Digitrax I would say stick with that. But the main factor that I always suggest to people is it is usually safer to stick with what your local shops carry since they will have more knowledge on that product as well as carry a better supply of it.
I was introduced to Digitrax when I got back into it 3 years ago and since pretty much every shop I deal with is a Digitrax dealer it was really simple for which way I went. Not to mention being in N-scale Digitrax carries the most PNP decoders for my engines.
If you do go with Digitrax and aren't in a huge hurry to buy I would wait a few more months and see if they get their new radio system out for x-mas which will be equivilant to anyone elses and probably a bit better.
I was introduced to Digitrax when I got back into it 3 years ago and since pretty much every shop I deal with is a Digitrax dealer it was really simple for which way I went. Not to mention being in N-scale Digitrax carries the most PNP decoders for my engines.
If you do go with Digitrax and aren't in a huge hurry to buy I would wait a few more months and see if they get their new radio system out for x-mas which will be equivilant to anyone elses and probably a bit better.
Having used both systems extensively, I decided some time back to stick with NCE. My first system was a Wangrow System-1 (built by NCE) 11 years ago. I bought a Digitrax to have radio when Wangrow/NCE didn't offer it. I used my own Digitrax system and have operated at a friend's house who has a large layout on Digitrax - up to 12 operators, multiple boosters, etc. I've also operated on one of the largest NCE installations, that being La Mesa Club in San Diego.
My Wangrow system was very old and only marginally supported by NCE, with Wangrow out of business. In 2006 I made the decision to buy an NCE radio system and subsequently sold my Digitrax stuff, all except for one DT400R to use as a guest operator. I have the 1.5 radio upgrade and I'm quite satisfied with the radio performance, but even before the upgrade I'd still have stuck with NCE. I also bought an NCE ProCab system to put on my workbench for setting up and programming locos.
I would recommend getting some experience with both systems before making a full scale commitment and see which suits you. Also, it depends on where you live... if you live in a "Digitrax Town", you'll find all the help you need available locally, but increasingly you can find a strong user base of both Digitrax and NCE in any major metro area. Cincinnati was about 95% Digitrax but that has changed dramatically in the last 3 years - especially since NCE brought out an entry level system.
Personally I find Digitrax geeky, fiddly, and the documentation is exasperating. The system and throttles (DT400) have improved, the docs has not. NCE's system is much cleaner, but IMO no less powerful. I've also sworn off Digitrax decoders. Those I have in place will stay there until they tee me off, or until the next routine maintenance for SuperFleet locos. All Superfleet, and all new locos will get NCE or TCS decoders.
Both systems work. If you take pride in learning complex button pushes and deciphering self-referencing, overlapping tables and user instructions, you might love Digitrax. If you just want to get up and running right away with a robust, reliable, comprehendable system... there's NCE.
Andy
My Wangrow system was very old and only marginally supported by NCE, with Wangrow out of business. In 2006 I made the decision to buy an NCE radio system and subsequently sold my Digitrax stuff, all except for one DT400R to use as a guest operator. I have the 1.5 radio upgrade and I'm quite satisfied with the radio performance, but even before the upgrade I'd still have stuck with NCE. I also bought an NCE ProCab system to put on my workbench for setting up and programming locos.
I would recommend getting some experience with both systems before making a full scale commitment and see which suits you. Also, it depends on where you live... if you live in a "Digitrax Town", you'll find all the help you need available locally, but increasingly you can find a strong user base of both Digitrax and NCE in any major metro area. Cincinnati was about 95% Digitrax but that has changed dramatically in the last 3 years - especially since NCE brought out an entry level system.
Personally I find Digitrax geeky, fiddly, and the documentation is exasperating. The system and throttles (DT400) have improved, the docs has not. NCE's system is much cleaner, but IMO no less powerful. I've also sworn off Digitrax decoders. Those I have in place will stay there until they tee me off, or until the next routine maintenance for SuperFleet locos. All Superfleet, and all new locos will get NCE or TCS decoders.
Both systems work. If you take pride in learning complex button pushes and deciphering self-referencing, overlapping tables and user instructions, you might love Digitrax. If you just want to get up and running right away with a robust, reliable, comprehendable system... there's NCE.
Andy
kbkchooch
Verified Human
Andy
I could not agree with you more. I've operated both system over the years and remain sooooo happy that I went with NCE. I have not however had an issue with Digitrax decoders like you have indicated, other than a pair of DH120's that acted goofy, but changing the number of stop packets sent out by NCE "fixed" those decoders. Are they just dying? Or is there an underlying problem? You have peaked by curiosity, since about 30 engines in my fleet are running Digitrax decoders, can I expect a large part of the fleet back for overhaul soon?
I could not agree with you more. I've operated both system over the years and remain sooooo happy that I went with NCE. I have not however had an issue with Digitrax decoders like you have indicated, other than a pair of DH120's that acted goofy, but changing the number of stop packets sent out by NCE "fixed" those decoders. Are they just dying? Or is there an underlying problem? You have peaked by curiosity, since about 30 engines in my fleet are running Digitrax decoders, can I expect a large part of the fleet back for overhaul soon?
Alcomotive
Grandson of an ALCO Builder
I am with Mavrick0!
I have the Zephyr system myself. All I did to go wireless was buy the DT400IR throttle and the UR91 receiver that hooks up into the Zephyr. It is sufficient for a small to medium size layout. The advantage of keeping the Zephyr is having the CV read outs and programing. Like Maverik0 I would use the Zephyr in the yard then you are good to go with add ons...
My other favorite add on is the PR3 for programing with Decoder Pro by JMRI...
Just my humble experience and opinion. I would not change a thing I love my system it works great for me plus my club layout uses Digitrax so I can take my throttle there too!
I have the Zephyr system myself. All I did to go wireless was buy the DT400IR throttle and the UR91 receiver that hooks up into the Zephyr. It is sufficient for a small to medium size layout. The advantage of keeping the Zephyr is having the CV read outs and programing. Like Maverik0 I would use the Zephyr in the yard then you are good to go with add ons...
My other favorite add on is the PR3 for programing with Decoder Pro by JMRI...
Just my humble experience and opinion. I would not change a thing I love my system it works great for me plus my club layout uses Digitrax so I can take my throttle there too!
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
IF you have the Zephyr, then you already have a base system that can be built up--either with radio or more power. I've used NCE, Digitrax and Prodigy, and frankly they are all excellent. You can split hairs, but all three are good.
Since you already have the Zephyr though, what you are looking at is an upgrade, not an entire system.
Since you already have the Zephyr though, what you are looking at is an upgrade, not an entire system.
ThoroughBreed
Dcc~detail~diesel freak
With the Zephyr, your limited to 10 functions available, and only get 14 with the Super Chief. The NCE will give you all 28, even in the starter set. The Prodigy Express will give you 16, and the Advance will give you all 28 also.
So if your thinking of getting any locos with sound, and actually want to hear and control them all, go with NCE or Prodigy Express/Advance.
And I also have stopped buying Digitrax decoders, as they require resistors for the Athearn RTR locos, if you hook up ditch lights.
So if your thinking of getting any locos with sound, and actually want to hear and control them all, go with NCE or Prodigy Express/Advance.
And I also have stopped buying Digitrax decoders, as they require resistors for the Athearn RTR locos, if you hook up ditch lights.
Alcomotive
Grandson of an ALCO Builder
ThoroughBreed
Dcc~detail~diesel freak
I suggest you look also at when that was last updated, in 06......
But, while you are looking at that page, do you notice where everyone elses systems are software upgradeable EXCEPT DIGITRAX.....
Last edited by a moderator:
ThoroughBreed
Dcc~detail~diesel freak
facts straight from the manufacturers website:
digitrax Zephyr; 10 max addresses at once, 10 throttles, 10 functions, 2.5 amps, cost
$199
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_basic_set.php
digitrax Super Chief; 120 addresses, 120 throttles, 14 functions, cost $449 for the 5 amp, $470 for the 8 amp
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_sc_set.php
NCE power cab; 2 throttles, 12 trains, 28 functions (pg 19 of the manual), 2 amp, cost $190
http://www.ncedcc.com/power_cab_manual_v1.28.pdf
MRC:
prodigy express; 32 throttles, 16 functions, 1.6 amp (upgradeable to 2.5 amp for cost of shipping), cost $190
advance; 99 throttles, 28 functions, 3.5 amp, cost $360
http://www.modelrec.com/train-controls/dcc-prodigy.asp
all costs are the MSRP, so you can definitley find them cheaper.
digitrax Zephyr; 10 max addresses at once, 10 throttles, 10 functions, 2.5 amps, cost
$199
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_basic_set.php
digitrax Super Chief; 120 addresses, 120 throttles, 14 functions, cost $449 for the 5 amp, $470 for the 8 amp
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_sc_set.php
NCE power cab; 2 throttles, 12 trains, 28 functions (pg 19 of the manual), 2 amp, cost $190
http://www.ncedcc.com/power_cab_manual_v1.28.pdf
MRC:
prodigy express; 32 throttles, 16 functions, 1.6 amp (upgradeable to 2.5 amp for cost of shipping), cost $190
advance; 99 throttles, 28 functions, 3.5 amp, cost $360
http://www.modelrec.com/train-controls/dcc-prodigy.asp
all costs are the MSRP, so you can definitley find them cheaper.
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kbkchooch
Verified Human
Another 800 pound gorilla
Thoroughbreed
Where as I did like the comparison of the leading DCC system, I think it was a little slanted. The comparison between the Zephyr, MRC and Powercab was pretty even, but then you threw an 800 pound gorilla in the mix, the Super Cheif! Don't forget the other big gorilla out there, the NCE ProCab system.
63 cabs max,250 trains,127 advanced consists ,250 old style consists, computer interface built in. Not even counting the accessory and signal addresses! http://www.ncedcc.com/sysman07.pdf for more info. $529.00 msrp for 5 amp system, $649.00 for 10 amps. Yeah, its a little more pricy, (get a bigger discount?)but after having owned one for 8-9 years, I can't say I'm sorry.
Oh, BTW, I added a radio ProCab and RB2 last week. Running trains from the couch, kitchen, back yard, I can even blow the horn and barely hear it from the Garage! The Gorilla just got bigger!
Thoroughbreed
Where as I did like the comparison of the leading DCC system, I think it was a little slanted. The comparison between the Zephyr, MRC and Powercab was pretty even, but then you threw an 800 pound gorilla in the mix, the Super Cheif! Don't forget the other big gorilla out there, the NCE ProCab system.
63 cabs max,250 trains,127 advanced consists ,250 old style consists, computer interface built in. Not even counting the accessory and signal addresses! http://www.ncedcc.com/sysman07.pdf for more info. $529.00 msrp for 5 amp system, $649.00 for 10 amps. Yeah, its a little more pricy, (get a bigger discount?)but after having owned one for 8-9 years, I can't say I'm sorry.
Oh, BTW, I added a radio ProCab and RB2 last week. Running trains from the couch, kitchen, back yard, I can even blow the horn and barely hear it from the Garage! The Gorilla just got bigger!
Last edited by a moderator:
kbkchooch
Verified Human
NCE upgrade = Easy!
Why send it back and be without it? When NCE does a major upgrade, they simply mail out e-proms. I've recieved one before, and it takes 10 minuts and a small Phillips screwdriver to perform the task. Fire up the Command station and see what goodies have been installed! Fun!
Why send it back and be without it? When NCE does a major upgrade, they simply mail out e-proms. I've recieved one before, and it takes 10 minuts and a small Phillips screwdriver to perform the task. Fire up the Command station and see what goodies have been installed! Fun!
The constant problem I have with Digitrax decoders has to do with the DH123 and DH163, when I try to consist them with my NCE system. On NCE when I add a loco to a consist that has one of these decoders, the loco will start moving. Not at a really high setting, but if it's in the middle of a consist I'm building, you'll hear it start grinding. As soon as I'm finished with the consist build, and I nudge the throttle, it stops and then responds correctly. Same thing happens when I kill a consist. I have Genesis F units in ABBA consists with Digitrax 163 decoders in the A units and 123 decoders in the B units. The B units are more likely to misbehave in this manner, but I've had the 163s do it too. I also discovered while trying to set speed tables that modifying any CV setting on the main will make the 123/163 decoders start moving. It's not 100% of the time. It apparently is some incompatibility between how NCE sends the commands and the decoder misinterprets somehow. I have not had this happen running them on a Digitrax system (which uses Universal consisting anyway), nor with any other decoder (I use NCE and TCS mostly), nor with older Digitrax decoders (DH120, 121, 140, 142). Just the xx3 generation.
It's not enough to make me replace them all just yet. I do disable silent mode on the xx3 decoders (CV9=255) so they'll run with older decoders. Digitrax's silent mode cuts the default speed response almost in half!
Currently the only things I have with these decoders are Genesis F units. I think. I can live with them for now. Superfleet locos all get NCE or TCS decoders.
Andy
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
Andy, it sounds like you need to use Decoder Pro in JMRI and find out what CV is messed up.
I'm planning to use NCE myself, though I'll go ProCab, not the weaker PowerCab, not quite expandable enough for me. My only major complaint? Why in the heck does it NOT come with the power supply?
I'm planning to use NCE myself, though I'll go ProCab, not the weaker PowerCab, not quite expandable enough for me. My only major complaint? Why in the heck does it NOT come with the power supply?
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