N
NP2626
Guest
No your not!
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No your not!
True enough, but in RW ops, steamers always smoked/steamed in copious amounts. A properly maintained diesel does not put much soot into the air and the exhaust is pretty clear. Steamers are sexy, especially in the RW, they are just not worth the bother for me to model. Different strokes...
ETA - during the Christmas season, I am running an O scale Lionel Polar Express steamer with sound and smoke - for the grandkids. I will admit I like sitting with the tree lit and the train running while I read. I do, however, appreciate the switches that allow me to turn off the sounds and smoke and just hear the hum of the rails and running gear.
What is RW?
That is nice. How often do you have to fill up the smoke tank? Thanks for getting the RW question.
Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway
No, not always. Depending on the season, what they're hauling, the grade they're on and what they burn, steam locomotives can run quite clean.
How clean you ask? Well, I recall getting a complaint from a passenger at the local scenic railroad. We were using a 3 Truck Heisler and it burns oil. She said "Hey, they said the ride would be a steam locomotive!" Thinking she wasn't familiar with geared locomotives (they don't look like the typical "steam engine" with big drive wheels) I explained that it was a geared logging engine. "Well, yes, but it's supposed to be a steam engine!" I replied that it was and she said "It can't be, it didn't make any smoke!" I thanked her for the compliment on my firing skills, then opened the firebox door to show her that it did indeed have a fire...
That said, there will of course usually be some steam and a bit of smoke. (Or a LOT, depending on what's going on...) But we aim for "a light haze", where the grey is just barely visible rather than "copious amounts of smoke". Sitting still, if the air pump isn't running and the weather isn't cold, there typically won't be much of anything visible from the stack of an oil burner. Coal burners may or may not have a haze, depending on conditions.
Thanks for the good info. I don't have a lot of experience being around steamers, but the ones I have personally seen put out quite the smoke trail. Glad to know that not all steamers do that.
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No your not!
montanan
Whiskey Merchant
I have a brass model of the Northern Pacific 2626 and I know that there is no way that it would handle a 22 inch radius curve. I had a problem with the pilot wheels shorting out against the cylinders even on fairly mild curves. Really frustrating. The wheels did have an RP-25 contour but I ended up replacing them with wheels with a scale flange and this did cure the problem. I also used some insulating paint I had for my old PFM sound system on the inside of the cylinders that is not seen at all and I can now run it on my layout although it would not have any business being there. I got it many years ago when I was just starting my layout and didn't have any track down. One of those purchases you wonder if you should really have made. I put it on the track a couple of times a year after light lubrication just to keep things operating properly, otherwise, it lives in its box.
N
NP2626
Guest
I'm sort of thinking Pacifics are maybe my best bet.
N
NP2626
Guest
I also agree with Y3a, however, nothing that Bowser made was anywhere close to locos that where used on the Northern Pacific except maybe the Old Lady Consolidation which sort of looked like N.P. Y-2 consolidation. I have an NWSL N.P. Q-6 Pacific and I might also use my MDC/Roundhouse modified 10 wheelers I converted to an N.P. S-4 Ten Wheeler. I think I said earlier that I believe I have enough steamers for my layout, now.
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
Yeah but can you resist the new Athearn Genesis Z8s that are in hobby stores now. I'm having a hard time not buying one for both SP&S and NP.
N
NP2626
Guest
No problem!
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Model Railroading, the "Borg" of hobbies. "Resistance is Futile".
The Dashing Turtle
New Member
I have equipment in N, HO, S & O scales. I, so far, have only "modeled" HO with any sort of layout. I would like to do an N layout after I finish my HO layout. Here are my thoughts:
O - I just got this in the Polar Express set to run under the Christmas tree. It looks durable enough that it should handle the grandkids playing with it. It is a steamer with sound and smoke. This is my only DCC equipment. All else is DC.
S - my old American Flyer I got ~50 years ago. It is a steamer that puts out smoke - I don't think I burned that out, but I would have to check to be sure.
N - This is my travel train/white noise machine. I set it up in hotels and run it all night to mask other noises. Locomotives are:
F7A/B combo in B&O colors
F7A/F7A dummy combo in Alaska colors
2 more modern diesels in B&O and Chessie colors.
HO - this is where I have more stuff, as in a layout. It is also where I have the most hours of ops & variety. Locomotives are:
1 old, and worn out, steamer with tender. Plans are to model this in a repair shop when I build one.
1 small steamer with a short wheel span. The cow catcher catches the track where it is not dead level.
1 modern diesel in Milwaukee Road colors
2 modern diesels in BN colors
1 modern diesel in Turtle Creek Central colors "The Route of the Dashing Turtle" - see avatar
While I think steam is sexy, and the video posted a few pages back where they are chasing the train is real cool, modeling steam leaves a lot to be desired. I have never seen a model that put out realistic smoke. You usually get little smoke rings that are cute, but not realistic. Further, you have to watch like a hawk or risk burning out the smoker. All that, coupled with the larger curves puts me in the diesel camp.
My style is that I like to build models and run trains. I am not a stickler for real world details, like whether locos from any 2 lines were ever in the same place - lots of folks sweat these details, I don't. My collection, therefore has models that were available and struck my fancy. Line or locomotive model were not big factors in the decision.
To answer the OP, I have found that diesels in the model world, like in the real world, are easier & cheaper to buy and maintain - so I run them. I guess if I were to pick a locomotive that I like best, it is the F7A/B combo. I have been looking for such a pair in primer (rather than painted for a line) in HO & N, but, so far, have not found a primed version. Finding primed versions used to be easy, what happened???
On a side note - did anyone else watch the wheel RPM in the video a few pages back with the steamer being chased? You could almost count the revolutions even when the train was at speed. Not sure about you, but on my models, the RPMs are much higher at the same scale speeds.
O - I just got this in the Polar Express set to run under the Christmas tree. It looks durable enough that it should handle the grandkids playing with it. It is a steamer with sound and smoke. This is my only DCC equipment. All else is DC.
S - my old American Flyer I got ~50 years ago. It is a steamer that puts out smoke - I don't think I burned that out, but I would have to check to be sure.
N - This is my travel train/white noise machine. I set it up in hotels and run it all night to mask other noises. Locomotives are:
F7A/B combo in B&O colors
F7A/F7A dummy combo in Alaska colors
2 more modern diesels in B&O and Chessie colors.
HO - this is where I have more stuff, as in a layout. It is also where I have the most hours of ops & variety. Locomotives are:
1 old, and worn out, steamer with tender. Plans are to model this in a repair shop when I build one.
1 small steamer with a short wheel span. The cow catcher catches the track where it is not dead level.
1 modern diesel in Milwaukee Road colors
2 modern diesels in BN colors
1 modern diesel in Turtle Creek Central colors "The Route of the Dashing Turtle" - see avatar
While I think steam is sexy, and the video posted a few pages back where they are chasing the train is real cool, modeling steam leaves a lot to be desired. I have never seen a model that put out realistic smoke. You usually get little smoke rings that are cute, but not realistic. Further, you have to watch like a hawk or risk burning out the smoker. All that, coupled with the larger curves puts me in the diesel camp.
My style is that I like to build models and run trains. I am not a stickler for real world details, like whether locos from any 2 lines were ever in the same place - lots of folks sweat these details, I don't. My collection, therefore has models that were available and struck my fancy. Line or locomotive model were not big factors in the decision.
To answer the OP, I have found that diesels in the model world, like in the real world, are easier & cheaper to buy and maintain - so I run them. I guess if I were to pick a locomotive that I like best, it is the F7A/B combo. I have been looking for such a pair in primer (rather than painted for a line) in HO & N, but, so far, have not found a primed version. Finding primed versions used to be easy, what happened???
On a side note - did anyone else watch the wheel RPM in the video a few pages back with the steamer being chased? You could almost count the revolutions even when the train was at speed. Not sure about you, but on my models, the RPMs are much higher at the same scale speeds.
N
NP2626
Guest
I model a specific Railroad on a specific date. The date I chose allows me to run Steam and Diesels (the transition). However, the high cost of steamers and the fact that it appears that many of the manufacturers of steam locomotives believe that detail trumps mechanical soundness. I postulated this thread based on my opinion of the previous statement! My opinion stems from these facts: I have owned older MDC Roundhouse, Bowser, kit built locomotives I built that performed excellently over the period of many years that I owned them. I have one Varney Dockside that is probably 55/60 years old that is still operating. The rest of my steamers are recent purchases (recent meaning within the last 15 years). These are Bachmann, Walthers, and Broadway Limited Import examples and are very nicely detailed locomotives that I have maybe gotten two years of very limited operation from before they suffered serious operational problems!
I don't want smoke, because the smoke looks like smoke from a cigarette and I wouldn't want smoke even if it looked right! My small basement doesn't need smoke haze in it. However, it is unfair to single steam out for this, as diesel also smoke! However, I've only seen O scale diesels with smoke.
Because of the difficulties I have had with steam, at times I have considered moving forward just a few years, as by 1958 the Northern Pacific had all but dropped the fires from it's steam roster. However, the fact that I love steam engines keeps me from doing this!
I don't want smoke, because the smoke looks like smoke from a cigarette and I wouldn't want smoke even if it looked right! My small basement doesn't need smoke haze in it. However, it is unfair to single steam out for this, as diesel also smoke! However, I've only seen O scale diesels with smoke.
Because of the difficulties I have had with steam, at times I have considered moving forward just a few years, as by 1958 the Northern Pacific had all but dropped the fires from it's steam roster. However, the fact that I love steam engines keeps me from doing this!
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The Dashing Turtle
New Member
True enough, but in RW ops, steamers always smoked/steamed in copious amounts. A properly maintained diesel does not put much soot into the air and the exhaust is pretty clear. Steamers are sexy, especially in the RW, they are just not worth the bother for me to model. Different strokes...
ETA - during the Christmas season, I am running an O scale Lionel Polar Express steamer with sound and smoke - for the grandkids. I will admit I like sitting with the tree lit and the train running while I read. I do, however, appreciate the switches that allow me to turn off the sounds and smoke and just hear the hum of the rails and running gear.
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Newer steam engines do put out quite a bit of smoke. The people that make them try to compromise between what looks good, and what the average modeler can stand, as far as smoke amounts in the train room. I took a short video of one of mine rolling along at about 40 mph, and the smoke/steam amount seems about right from what I remember of the real thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn80c0eXpAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn80c0eXpAk
N
NP2626
Guest
What is RW?
RW=Real World.
The Dashing Turtle
New Member
That is nice. How often do you have to fill up the smoke tank? Thanks for getting the RW question.
That looks pretty good to me. I have live example's of steam locomotives in my town.The Strasburg RR. They run shorter (about 8-9 cars) passenger trains. The steam locomotives put out varying levels of smoke depending on the fire and load. A steam locomotive sitting on standby with a real proportion of smoke would quickly make the air in the room unbreathable to me.
Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway
No, not always. Depending on the season, what they're hauling, the grade they're on and what they burn, steam locomotives can run quite clean.
How clean you ask? Well, I recall getting a complaint from a passenger at the local scenic railroad. We were using a 3 Truck Heisler and it burns oil. She said "Hey, they said the ride would be a steam locomotive!" Thinking she wasn't familiar with geared locomotives (they don't look like the typical "steam engine" with big drive wheels) I explained that it was a geared logging engine. "Well, yes, but it's supposed to be a steam engine!" I replied that it was and she said "It can't be, it didn't make any smoke!" I thanked her for the compliment on my firing skills, then opened the firebox door to show her that it did indeed have a fire...
That said, there will of course usually be some steam and a bit of smoke. (Or a LOT, depending on what's going on...) But we aim for "a light haze", where the grey is just barely visible rather than "copious amounts of smoke". Sitting still, if the air pump isn't running and the weather isn't cold, there typically won't be much of anything visible from the stack of an oil burner. Coal burners may or may not have a haze, depending on conditions.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Dashing Turtle
New Member
Thanks for the good info. I don't have a lot of experience being around steamers, but the ones I have personally seen put out quite the smoke trail. Glad to know that not all steamers do that.
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