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And yes, "digital" terminal tracks is a way to get few more pence out of you. Buyer beware.
Hahaha, well I will remember it in future. Trying to stay positive, I'm glad I paid the extra at my local independent store, rather than a big chain.
Yes, but it really doesn't matter if you get them crossed up because it's AC and there's no polarity to worry about. Using the same A wires and B wires to the E-Z Command station terminal just helps keep things more organized.
Well I pulled open a gap on the track for the new piece, hooked it up (A to A) and.... nothing. Not a sausage from the train. Not even a whimper.
So I put it A-B, still nowt. Before giving up I thought it would be a good idea to check that I hadn't got a duff piece, so I hooked it up and thankfully it worked, but only on that loop.
I took a quick snap to help visualise it. This is A-A...
The perspectives off, but that Triumph Herald box is holding that wire off the tracks.
HB, there are times...you don't have two disconnected loops, you have two loops joined by a crossover. In this case, DCC sees this as one big piece of track so you don't need two terminal tracks. Just hook up two wires to one terminal track and bring them back to the A and B terminals on the E-Z Command. That should power both loops.
Thanks again for the help Jim, I do appreciate it.
Slightly dumb question time..
I did try with just the one power track, but only that loop worked. The second one was powerless. (Here's the dumb bit) is it not going to the second loop as the track is not yet a full loop? I hadn't quite finished off the back stretch..
HB, electricity could care less about loops. It will run where there's a conductor and stop when there's not. Which brings us to that picture. Are those switches power routing, e.g, does only the route that the points are thrown for get power? If so, that crossover won't get power to the inside track unless the switch is thrown for the diverging route. If they are not power routing, the crossover should carry current to both sets of tracks unless you've got a short. Get an ohmmeter and test where power goes when you just have the outer track connected to the command station.
Well I hooked it up again just to make sure (both wires to one power track), flipped the switch to the outer loop and it all went quiet. Nothing to the inner or outer - not even when I moved the train to the outer loop.
I think its time for me to ditch the switch over and just have the two loops independent.
HB, having a way to cross between the two loops is a good thing. You've got something wrong with one of those two switches. It sounds like they are power routing, which is what you don't want in this case, you want something like Atlas or Peco Insulfrog. As long as current is able to flow through the frogs regardless of the postion of the points, that crossover will work fine with one connection to one loop. The problem with independent loops is you need to pick up engine and rolling stock to move them from one loop to another. The more times you handle modern, detailed models, the closer you are to breaking things off. There's no reason that crossover shouldn't work with the right switches.
Thanks for the tip. I shall go on a search for some Peco switches (hardly anyone local sells them - its all Hornby, which is who made the current switches I have).
At least this way (taking the silver lining) I can look into having another switch down from the outer loop down to the left of the layout for "future expansion" (he says laughingly!)
I've been considering some sort of industry, but that perhaps is a whole other thread.
So I went and bought two more Insufrog switches. I installed them and connected power (one power track/A-B) and nothing on the outer loop.
I tried adding the second power track and connecting A-B (box lights went ballistic) so I connected it A-A, but it only gets power if one is switched to the other side.
So in a fit of desperation I removed the crossover and put both power tracks on each loop separately. This resulted in no movement whatsoever.
I'm getting to the end of my tether with this. Am I over complicating matter? All I want to do is just have two trains each on a loop of track.
What can I do??
HB, I'm at a loss here. If you have insulfrog switches, they should serve to transfer power from one track to the other. Do you have a reverse loop somewhere? Does one of your loops take off from and then connect back to the same loop, kind of like a balloon? Let's try this. Take a few sections of straight track, with one being a terminal track, on either side of the crossover. Disconnect this section completely from the rest of the layout. Apply power to the terminal track. What happens when you try to run your DCC engine now? There's something very elementary we're missing here but I'm just not sure what yet.
I hope you don't mind me saying that I'm glad its not just me!
I hope you like the challenge!
If you have insulfrog switches, they should serve to transfer power from one track to the other. Do you have a reverse loop somewhere? Does one of your loops take off from and then connect back to the same loop, kind of like a balloon?
Nope. Until I connect it all together it sort of runs a semi circle in either direction (both loops).
Let's try this. Take a few sections of straight track, with one being a terminal track, on either side of the crossover. Disconnect this section completely from the rest of the layout. Apply power to the terminal track. What happens when you try to run your DCC engine now? There's something very elementary we're missing here but I'm just not sure what yet.
OK. So I set up the crossover and added track either side on both North and South.
Quick pic to help visualise. I did try and take one with the train on the track, but it came out a bit dark. Anyways....
So I put the GN on the North track to the left of the power track. It buzzed in excitement as I placed it down, I gave it some juice and it went on its merry way.
I then put it back to the start position and then physically moved it to the same spot on the South track. And... silence.
I've thought, could it be the train or the controller, but if that was the case it wouldn't work on the North track.
For what its worth, I'm using PECO Streamline track and PECO SL-92 switches.
One silly little thing like that got me a while back. Seem the current was dependent on the point rails making good contact both at the points and the hinge. If you don't have a volt meter to check it all out a 12v bulb and a couple of wires attached would help you check this out.
Willis
Insulfrog switches should route power regardless of the point position. Somehwere, powe is not getting through those two switches to the other track. You can try the light bulb thing as suggested by Willis or break down and get a decent digital ohmmeter. We need to find exactly where the power ends to solve this mystery.
Well I had a little experiment, it appears that the power runs along the parallel tracks, but does not work at the angled part of the switch track. (sorry I don't know the proper terms).
The only thing I can think is, is it the box? Is it too weak to get power to the second track? I've about 3 years old, but has been used only a couple of hours in that time.
HB, it's not the control station. The problem is one or both of those switches. The angled part is properly called the diverging route. Try this. Use one powered track section with the switch but, instead of connecting it to the other switch, add a few sections of straight track to the diverging route. Does the train now run through the diverging route and down the straight track? If so, try the same thing with the other switch. If the train will run down both diverging routes, the problem is a short where the diverging routes connect to the two tracks.
So I gave that a whirl. The digital power track, one switch, a bit of extra track on the "main" and a short stretch on the spur. (It looked like a skewed "Y")
And... yup you've guessed it. The train worked on the main line, but sat and held its breath when I threw the switch to go down the spur.
So I swapped it all about - switch 2. Same result.
And in the interests of science I took the old Hornby switch and gave that a whirl. And... exactly the same result as both Peco switches.
I also before I tried the above got the wire-soldered straight and tried it with the cross-over but that too only allowed the train to go on the inner line where the wire was, but nothing happened when the switches were flicked, or the train placed on the outer line.
I thought it could be related to the Hornby power track but now I don't know.
HB, I'm totally confused. There's no reason, even with a power routing switch, that the train should not continue down the track that the points are thrown toward. It sounds like you're say the train would run through the switch as long as the points were thrown for the main, correct? Did you then place the train so it was on the track opposite the points, throw the switch, and the train then wouldn't move on the main or the diverging route? Did the headlight turn on or was it completely dead? Is this the only engine you have or do you have others you can test this with? We're still missing something here as what's happening makes no electrical sense unless it's a problem with the engine. Have you gotten an ohmmeter yet? We really need one so we can determine exactly where we lose power.
It sounds like you're say the train would run through the switch as long as the points were thrown for the main, correct?
Well no. It would just stop dead on the main if the point was flipped.
Did you then place the train so it was on the track opposite the points, throw the switch, and the train then wouldn't move on the main or the diverging route?
I did move it to the spur but nothing happened.
Did the headlight turn on or was it completely dead?
I didn't try, but I'd imagine it wouldn't come on.
I shall try tomorrow.. its -4 at the moment!
Is this the only engine you have or do you have others you can test this with?
The GN is the only one with DCC. The other American one is "DCC Ready". Failing that it'd have to be the Battle of Britain which is DC and about 25 years old.
We're still missing something here as what's happening makes no electrical sense unless it's a problem with the engine.
I'm starting to think that too. I'll try the Western Pacific tomorrow, and post my findings.
Have you gotten an ohmmeter yet? We really need one so we can determine exactly where we lose power.
Not yet. Can't seem to find one.
HB, an ohmmeter is also called a multi-meter. They should be available at any home improvement kind of place or whatever the UK version of Radio Shack is. You want a digital one if possible that looks something like this:
What I asked was, if the points were thrown for the main, would the engine run from a track section, across the switch, and then on to the other track section? Your last post makes it sound like it wouldn't run on the main with the points thrown for the main. Is this correct? Are you saying it will run on the sectional track but then would be dead on the switch section no matter if it was thrown for the main or thrown for the diverging route? Maybe you can take some pictures of where the locomotive stops running exactly in relation to the switch. We're getting crossed up here and I'm understanding less of what's happening as we go on.
HB, an ohmmeter is also called a multi-meter. They should be available at any home improvement kind of place or whatever the UK version of Radio Shack is. You want a digital one if possible that looks something like this:
Thank you. I'll keep an eye out for one of those. I've not been able to look today.
What I asked was, if the points were thrown for the main, would the engine run from a track section, across the switch, and then on to the other track section? Your last post makes it sound like it wouldn't run on the main with the points thrown for the main. Is this correct?
Are you saying it will run on the sectional track but then would be dead on the switch section no matter if it was thrown for the main or thrown for the diverging route? Maybe you can take some pictures of where the locomotive stops running exactly in relation to the switch. We're getting crossed up here and I'm understanding less of what's happening as we go on.
Sorry for the confusion. Yes, it runs: sectional track>switch>power track>sectional track and back again with no problem.
But, flick the switch to the spur and it all goes off.
I did try it with the WP (it makes a bit of a whine just sitting idle, but the light comes on as well, so I took two snaps).
Left = Train on sectional track, just before the switch (you can see the gap in the ties between the two). Switch to the main. Train can run straight on over switch. All is good.
Right = Train in exact same position, switch flicked to spur. It all goes quiet - even the whine stops. No movement at all.
I even tried swapping the Peco switch for a Hornby one - exactly the same. Then I tried the Peco switch with the soldered Peco sectional track with identical results. The train can go over the switch and back when flicked to the main, flick the switch and its Goodnight Irene.
I was convinced it was the power track this time, but I can't see as to how it makes any difference if it does it with the soldered track.
HB, we've run out of options until you get an ohmmeter. There's a short somewhere and the only way we can determine exactly where is by using an ohmmeter. If you don't have any, pick up some wire with alligator clips at both ends. What we need to do is use the alligator clips to feed power directly to the rails at the end of the switch. We can then put the meter on the switch and move the points to see exactly where you lose voltage as the points move. We also need to measure voltage on both sides of the frog to see if there's a problem there. It seems highly unlikely that three switches from two different companies could all be bad so something else is going on. I talked to my brother, who worked for Honeywell for 34 years and understands electricity a lot better than I do, and he's just as baffled.
So, you need to get a meter. It may be called an Ohmmeter, Multi-meter, or VOM, but they are all the same thing it should look generally like the picture I posted. Until you get one, we aren't going to make any progress.
Any of the rest of you guys who have been reading along and have any ideas, please jump in because my well is running dry.
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