4X8 Suggestions appreciated

[SpaceMouse]

Do you need the loop in the peninsula? It seems to me you could get a better passenger terminal wihtout the compication of the loop and the loop really doesn't add much.

Here's a passenger terminal I built for my club.

If you didn't have to worry about the loop you might have some room for things like a turntable to turn your engines, car wash facilities, fuel and engine services, etc.

Passenger operations can give real purpose to a layout.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

HB, that's actually a much more workable plan, giving the appearance of a stub end station but allowing trains to run through so no need to worry about backing and turning. You would have to make some changes for this to work in HO scale but I like the idea, as long as you plan carefully on how you'll get access to all that hidden trackage.

Well I guess some carefully hidden hinges could work. Failing that the retaining wall would have to be a manual job.

Here is a picture I had snagged off the net that basically fits my description of what I was talking about with the 1 foot wide shelves making a big square or circle.

That looks quite "delicate" to me, being so thin, but I guess it would seem different in person.

Or, like you said, you could incorporate your existing 4X8 as one side of the square and have the continuous loop operation for your long passenger cars using the other 3 sides. Then, you could maybe use your idea for the station on the 4X8 part and model a good deal of the "city" there.

Hmm.. that sounds like a plan - especially after reading this:

Do you need the loop in the peninsula? It seems to me you could get a better passenger terminal wihtout the compication of the loop and the loop really doesn't add much.

Here's a passenger terminal I built for my club.

If you didn't have to worry about the loop you might have some room for things like a turntable to turn your engines, car wash facilities, fuel and engine services, etc.

Passenger operations can give real purpose to a layout.

Spanner in the works! (and I mean the good kind ) I'd not though about that!

All I'd come up with today was the idea of having a scene divide with the country station one side and city on the other.

I'd also (on my dream list) is have some sort of trolley car trundling around the city area. Of course that's another set of tracks to consider (especially if it was to be a continuous loop).

But that could encroach on the country side, unless part of the track went hidden under some mountainous scenery on that side of "the fence" (which would have to be removable).

Like thus:

Seems like once you step forward with one idea, you have to compromise in another area!

Then again, I'm not that proficient yet, so many I can settle for a static trolley car model.

 

[SpaceMouse]

Trolleys can run in the country. The one in my town ran from here to Clymer 15 miles away.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

I wish they'd bring them back in both cities near me. You can still see some of the beautiful old Art Deco wait shelters dotted along the main road into the city (which ironically now has a dedicated bus lane ).

 

[ken_23434]

The trolleys should be able to make much tighter curves too. So, the 15" snap track pieces (maybe tighter) could be utilized to fill in the city scene more.

I have often wondered how a N-scale track based trolley line or mining cart line would look in a HO layout. Similar to the "compression" method they use at the theme parks (Disney World) where the 2nd and 3rd floors are progressively smaller giving the illusion of a 2 or 3 story building in a much smaller space (compression).

 

[Hathaway Browne]

^I've often wondered the same. I'm not sure on what depth you'd need on a scene to make it visually correct.

And am I right in thinking that these trolleys run on standard HO track? (It's the Con-Cor PCC Streetcar I have in mind.)

And, I've also roughed up a plan on 4x8 only - still rough around the edges I admit, but it kind of gets the point across.

The blue dotted line would be the streetcar.

 

[SpaceMouse]

As an add on, I see no problem. As a stand alone, I find it wanting for more.

 

[UP2CSX]

HB, the Con-Cor PCC does run on standard HO track and can be run from either track power or overhead wire. They are nice looking models.

I think you've got a good start in terms of concept. As Chip said, it needs more detail but I like the idea of the raised city area used as view block.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

As an add on, I see no problem. As a stand alone, I find it wanting for more.

Now you've got me thinking. I was considering this as a stand alone, but geez, it could really go places as a folded dog bone. Perhaps some sort of mill on the extension?

HB, the Con-Cor PCC does run on standard HO track and can be run from either track power or overhead wire. They are nice looking models.

That's good to know then. Although I'd have no clue how to put the tracks in the "tarmac" - so that might scupper that plan.

And overhead wire you say? Is that as tricky as I think it could be?

I think you've got a good start in terms of concept. As Chip said, it needs more detail but I like the idea of the raised city area used as view block.

Thanks, I do feel like I'm starting to get somewhere with this now.

I guess I could always put the county station on the extension, but then I'm virtually back to the "dead end" station plan, unless I put a turntable out there. But I imagine that could take up quite a bit of real estate.

And if I was putting the country on the extension, there's no need for the scene divide. Unless it divides to nothing. So I just roughed this up, but as you can see I've pushed the dive back (thus making the city bigger) but I've run aground as there's no way I could return the train back.

Now I'm thinking that having a larger city would not be all it cracks up to be. Maybe I should stick with the previous plan, but have the extension as a industrial spur off the Country side?

This then starts to cause complications on how the heck this will all fit in the space I have available. I currently have 8x7 (landscape) at my disposable which could go to 10x7 at a push. So really having the table that way around really means that the above extension plan is impractical as the top end of the table ("countryside") would have to go against the wall.

That's another step forward and once back again, which seems to be part of the learning curve of the hobby, I guess.

 

[SpaceMouse]

One thing that makes things difficult is that we don't know how this fits into your overall picture.

Is the software you are using made for model railroading. The question I'm really asking is are the turnouts you are showing the correct geometry or are they guesses?

If you are guessing, I suggest taking the time to learn XtrkCAD. It's a free program and has an excellent tutorial that takes about 4-8 hours to get through. Although that seems like a lot, it's worth it in terms of the mistakes you'll save.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

It's done in Inkscape, a vector graphics program, so everything is just a visual rather than specific.

I'm going to look up this XtrkCAD thing now. (Thanks for the tip).

 

[SpaceMouse]

It's done in Inkscape, a vector graphics program, so everything is just a visual rather than specific.

I'm going to look up this XtrkCAD thing now. (Thanks for the tip).

http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Thanks. I've have a couple of goes, but its not easy to work with.

I tried to get a spur in, but it kept going wrong. Anways, I did manage to get a 4x8 loop done.

 

[SpaceMouse]

To put in a spur, click on the turnout you want and drop it on the track where you want it. A slight move of the mouse will flip the direction. When you get it where you want hit ENTER and it locks down. Then use the extend/modify to drag a spur out from the new turnout.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Thanks for that!

So I've done another quick draft, this time adding the city level and a small engine shed (in Paint):

 

[SpaceMouse]

Your track has errors and you need to eliminate them if you want to be sure your track will work (or print a 1:1 template). The errors are that the tracks on the top have short pieces with very tight radii and the turnout for the spur is on a curved track.

The thing is you were working too hard. You just need to start your design with circles in the corners set at the radii you want and just use the join tool. You don't need to put the straights in. Just click on the two circles with the join tool. Make sure the circles are aligned by looking at thecircle with describe tool and changing the coordinates of the center point.

You only need the nested circles on each one.


You can add a yard in less than a minute.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

Thanks again Chip! That worked a treat!

I've done another plan, again, adding the scenery in Paint, I've also reduced the country side (60-40 split).

Maybe its because I'm still an amateur, but I think this is starting to look like it can go some where.

I've also thought that if I can rotate the table so its portrait, I could run a industrial spur off the country side (top left of this image).

 

[SpaceMouse]

First change the settings to resize (You really should be drawing the room, not just the table.) Then just select all, right click and rotate.

Any easy way to post a legible picture is to print screen and paste into your photo program. Then crop out what you don't want.

 

[UP2CSX]

HB, it looks like you have plenty of room on the country side of the layout for an insustrial spur, maybe even two. Right now, you have a double track mainline that is just running through a forest. An industry or two would make it a lot more interesting.

As far as the trolley, you can run it from track power and hang hang fake trolley wire from utility poles along the road. There are a lot of ways to do street running, from plaster to laying styrene sheets for the road and cutting the center portion out for the tracks. Lay more styrene between the tracks and you've got a street car line. I don't know what the availabilility is of Walthers products is in the UK but their street system at http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3140 makes it dead easy to do street trackage. Not cheap but it looks really good, especially when used with their brick streets. Of course, that's how I did mine, so I'm biased.

 

[Hathaway Browne]

First change the settings to resize (You really should be drawing the room, not just the table.) Then just select all, right click and rotate.

Thanks I've now increased the "room" size to that of what I currently have. I can see that I can get a separate shelf spur in the future if I did decide. (see below).

HB, it looks like you have plenty of room on the country side of the layout for an insustrial spur, maybe even two. Right now, you have a double track mainline that is just running through a forest. An industry or two would make it a lot more interesting.

Well the track currently has a curved spur coming down to the centre (for a freight depot) and another spur coming off the near side track, so I can keep those.
(I'll try and brave the cold and get a couple snaps later ).

Tried a quick mock up on Xtrack, but it wouldn't cooperate as much as I would have liked (with a curved spur), but you can kind of get the idea for the time being.

As far as the trolley, you can run it from track power and hang hang fake trolley wire from utility poles along the road. There are a lot of ways to do street running, from plaster to laying styrene sheets for the road and cutting the center portion out for the tracks. Lay more styrene between the tracks and you've got a street car line. I don't know what the availabilility is of Walthers products is in the UK but their street system at http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3140 makes it dead easy to do street trackage. Not cheap but it looks really good, especially when used with their brick streets. Of course, that's how I did mine, so I'm biased.

Thanks for that! Now that looks like a straight forward way to get a street car up and running!

Its a bit hit and miss over here for NorthAm stuff, but I'm sure I could track it down. (I'd imagine Walthers charge and arm, a leg and then some to ship over here )