Worn out teeth


Z

zoegraf

Craftsman at heart
My Proto loco started to make thumping sounds last night and it got louder as the loco pulled more cars. So I took the trucks out so I could see if there was any resistance while rolling the trucks. To my dismay, the wheels sets are skipping and slipping right over the teeth on the other gear when I put pressure on one wheel set while rolling the other with my fingers. None of the other gears move so I figure it is the teeth on the axles.

Are the top of the teeth worn out?

I was going to remove the teeth on the axles to turn the loco into a dummy for now, but I just found out as you can see in the photos, the axle is in two pieces with the gear holding it together.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
 
They're not worn out, check for a crack going across on all the axle gears. Those usually split open. I replace mine with Athearn's axle gears.
 
flh80 said:
They're not worn out, check for a crack going across on all the axle gears. Those usually split open. I replace mine with Athearn's axle gears.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

No cracks on the axle gears.
And I can't inspect the other gears because the housing is held together by rivets not screws.
 
If the axle/gear comes apart that easy, then you need to replace the whole thing. What happens is the axle is spinning inside the gear housing & the engine will bounce around trying to run on that slipping gear. I've tried to repair it w/superglue & other adhesives & it never holds. So, get you a small bag of axle sets(6 or 12) to repair others that you may encounter down the line.
 
Still bet they're cracked. When these axles are on the gears, do they turn freely, or is it hard to turn the axles while on the gear. If easy, the axle is cracked. If neither is easy, then you're looking at the wrong truck.

The truck, if it is riveted, is the first P2K loco to be done so. They are very easy to take apart as generally the only thing holding them together are the snap on clips located on top of the truck.
 
Cjcrescent said:
Still bet they're cracked. When these axles are on the gears, do they turn freely, or is it hard to turn the axles while on the gear. If easy, the axle is cracked. If neither is easy, then you're looking at the wrong truck.

The truck, if it is riveted, is the first P2K loco to be done so. They are very easy to take apart as generally the only thing holding them together are the snap on clips located on top of the truck.
Click to expand...

The only way you can tell if they are truly cracked is put a small screwdriver in the end of the gear housing after the axle comes out & give it a small pry.
If the hosing is cracked it will open up. I don't have any P2K's that I know of, But Athearn is the same trucks & use the same axles, etc. I have found gear housing that are not cracked, but the axle will spin inside the gear housing & cause the engine to buck like a bronco. The main gears are trying to turn the axle gear & if it slips there is no contact. I hope I've explained myself w/gear & axle problems. If these engine companies used a pin type axle in a slotted gear housing it would stop all of these axle problems.
 
Cjcrescent said:
Still bet they're cracked. When these axles are on the gears, do they turn freely, or is it hard to turn the axles while on the gear. If easy, the axle is cracked. If neither is easy, then you're looking at the wrong truck.

The truck, if it is riveted, is the first P2K loco to be done so. They are very easy to take apart as generally the only thing holding them together are the snap on clips located on top of the truck.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

The gears on the wheels do not turn freely; pretty snug.
I've managed to get the front truck apart. I checked all the gears and they are not cracked. They all turn easy and the teeth all look fine.

When the assembled truck is free from the loco, the wheels rolls without any bumps.

When I hook it back up to the drive, the front truck keeps hoping/thumping.
 
Larry said:
The only way you can tell if they are truly cracked is put a small screwdriver in the end of the gear housing after the axle comes out & give it a small pry.
If the hosing is cracked it will open up. I don't have any P2K's that I know of, But Athearn is the same trucks & use the same axles, etc. I have found gear housing that are not cracked, but the axle will spin inside the gear housing & cause the engine to buck like a bronco. The main gears are trying to turn the axle gear & if it slips there is no contact. I hope I've explained myself w/gear & axle problems. If these engine companies used a pin type axle in a slotted gear housing it would stop all of these axle problems.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I gave it a small pry and the it will not open up.

So can one buy the trucks separately?
 
Larry said:
If the axle/gear comes apart that easy, then you need to replace the whole thing. What happens is the axle is spinning inside the gear housing & the engine will bounce around trying to run on that slipping gear. I've tried to repair it w/superglue & other adhesives & it never holds. So, get you a small bag of axle sets(6 or 12) to repair others that you may encounter down the line.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks.
 
Larry said:
If the axle/gear comes apart that easy, then you need to replace the whole thing. What happens is the axle is spinning inside the gear housing & the engine will bounce around trying to run on that slipping gear. I've tried to repair it w/superglue & other adhesives & it never holds. So, get you a small bag of axle sets(6 or 12) to repair others that you may encounter down the line.
Click to expand...

Will it still bounce if only one side/axle is loose in the gear?

Also when you mean replace the whole thing. Do you mean the axle and wheels?
 
It will thump if only one wheel is loose or axel is not tight. You can't see it but it is cracked between the teeth. Proto has been having this problem for several years and there has been several threads written on this topic.
You needel wheels and gears or just get some gears only and use the old wheels. The Athearn gears or axels with gears and wheels for the SD40-2 fit almost all Proto engines as well as Athearn. The Athearn part 60024 is for the gears only. Only a few bucks. The wheel assembly is 40019 this is wheels and gears.

Bob
 
In my modeling group between three of us we have around 50 Proto 2000 four axle units. I have a lot of experience with the cracked, broken, split or just plain loose Proto axle gears, the thumping noise when they are under a load has in my experience, always been caused by one of them. We have always replaced them with Athearn gears with great success. And take my word for it, save yourself a lot of trouble and replace them all, not just the bad ones. If you can easily turn the wheel in the axle, it's bad. We have had units that had never been out of the box turn up with bad axles on their first trip around the main. For years Proto would send you gears if you called, but we figured why put a badly designed gear back in and used the Athearns instead. I've been told that they came out with a better replacement, but I've never used one.
 
bobwrgt said:
It will thump if only one wheel is loose or axel is not tight. You can't see it but it is cracked between the teeth. Proto has been having this problem for several years and there has been several threads written on this topic.
You needel wheels and gears or just get some gears only and use the old wheels. The Athearn gears or axels with gears and wheels for the SD40-2 fit almost all Proto engines as well as Athearn. The Athearn part 60024 is for the gears only. Only a few bucks. The wheel assembly is 40019 this is wheels and gears.

Bob
Click to expand...

Well that explains a lot. Thanks.

I still can't see any cracks with the magnifier, but I'll take your word for it.

Cheers.
 
Dortoh1 said:
In my modeling group between three of us we have around 50 Proto 2000 four axle units. I have a lot of experience with the cracked, broken, split or just plain loose Proto axle gears, the thumping noise when they are under a load has in my experience, always been caused by one of them. We have always replaced them with Athearn gears with great success. And take my word for it, save yourself a lot of trouble and replace them all, not just the bad ones. If you can easily turn the wheel in the axle, it's bad. We have had units that had never been out of the box turn up with bad axles on their first trip around the main. For years Proto would send you gears if you called, but we figured why put a badly designed gear back in and used the Athearns instead. I've been told that they came out with a better replacement, but I've never used one.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I take it those new Athearn gears have a lot of scale miles on them and that's sounds very promising.

I have other Protos, but they are switchers and I do not know if they are Proto 2000s or 1000s. No problem yet with those and they do run a lot smoother and quieter than my FA-1. Do you think I should replace their gears?
 
I don't have a one of my P2K switchers anywhere near me right now, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they use a clone of Kato's 4 axle drive instead of Athearns. We have not had any problems with them at all.
 
Having read this thread top to bottom I have to ask it Walther's Proto 2000 still using this same axle and gear in thier newer releases? Say 2008 going forward to 2011? How old would you say your loco is Zoegraf?
 
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I believe the cracked gear issue was with the earlier (not current) Proto2000 and Proto1000 four axle road engines. I have never heard of an issue with one of the proto switchers or the six axles engines. I have replaced axles on a proto1000 F-3, a proto2000 Fa-2 and Fa-1 and the Proto2000 GP-18/9. A friend of mine has replced the gears on both the RS-10 and RS-18.
My Proto2000 Fa-1 was bought brand new about 5 years ago. The FA-2's came out in the early to mid ninties as well as the proto2000 GP-18's.
 
Cracked axle gears can occur with any brand and any production run due to the injection molding process (the plastic shrinks as it cools) although the older blue/gold box Proto 2000s were notorious for having cracked axle gears due to the type of plastic used.
 
NWCanuck said:
Having read this thread top to bottom I have to ask it Walther's Proto 2000 still using this same axle and gear in thier newer releases? Say 2008 going forward to 2011? How old would you say your loco is Zoegraf?
Click to expand...

I think it's about 8 years old.
 
Thanks for the info Glen, I was staring to worry about my F3A, B units but they are from a newer production run within the last two years.

diburning said:
Proto 2000s were notorious for having cracked axle gears due to the type of plastic used.
Click to expand...

Thats what I was looking for Eric. While the issue is still possible at least they have changed the type of plastic used in the process for the better.
 
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