When is a train backing?

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bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
I can see a case where a train has car on the front of the locomotive and needs to back-up (going loco frontwards) to spot the car, disconnect from the car and then move towards the back of the locomotive (Backing-up). Does th loco toot three times for both manuvers?
Whistle signals are based on locomotive direction only. If the locomotive is going forward, and the train backward, signal is for forward movement.
 

2Tracks

Ol' School
except the OP's original question?
The original question is actually a bit confusing
I agree, I think it's as simple as not understanding the terminology used in the statement/question. Current procedures had been talked about, but after a few posts with the OP, it looks like his intent is to find out what procedures were carried out in the time he is modeling?
Is that right?
 

Ash Pit

Active Member
To clarify: I did not know that the F on the side of a Diesel Locomitive deterimined that end as front in all instances! Per what has been stated here I have a somewaht better understanding of this issue. I don't find the F on Switchers, is that because the cab is at the back, similar to steam locomotives. As I operate my layout, I like to copy the prototype. For the Northern Pacific, they used the RS-1 with the long hood as Front; but, with the RS-3 they changed to the short being forward, Go figure!
 

Ash Pit

Active Member
I have access to Train Masters TV Videos. I have just watched a 6 segment set of videos on Operation. In these videos, I have seen long trains (30+ cars) being pulled by two 80s era Diesel locomotives with the long hoods pointed in the direction of travel. With what has been stated here, I must assume that when these trains move towards their destnations, they are going in reverse, so must give three horn blasts to start! Is this correct?
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
I have access to Train Masters TV Videos. I have just watched a 6 segment set of videos on Operation. In these videos, I have seen long trains (30+ cars) being pulled by two 80s era Diesel locomotives with the long hoods pointed in the direction of travel. With what has been stated here, I must assume that when these trains move towards their destnations, they are going in reverse, so must give three horn blasts to start! Is this correct?
Again, only if the long hood is the designated rear. If those diesels are from the N&W or SOU, for example, the long hood is still the front.
 

Ash Pit

Active Member
Specifically these are from Mike Confalone's Allagash RR. They are Allagash locomotives. I'm not a newer Diesel guy, so don't know what types of locos they are. The operator beeped twice and started movment towards the long hoods. I could not see any Fs on the locos. This is a model railroad; so, should I expect that it is operated per the prototype?
 
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bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
Specifically these are from Mike Confalone's Allagash RR. They are Allagash locomotives. I'm not a newer Diesel guy, so don't know what types of locos tey are.
Well, then, you'll need to contact Mike Confalone and ask him which end of his custom locomotives he considers to be the front.
 

2Tracks

Ol' School
I like to copy the prototype
Looking at all the posts here, I don't see any that specifically point to NP operations at 1953. Maybe some are similar, I don't know!
Research NP for your time period, see how they operated...maybe they were heavy on the horn.......I don't know!
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Specifically these are from Mike Confalone's Allagash RR. They are Allagash locomotives. I'm not a newer Diesel guy, so don't know what types of locos they are. The operator beeped twice and started movment towards the long hoods. I could not see any Fs on the locos. This is a model railroad; so, should I expect that it is operated per the prototype?
To clarify where the F is usually located, here is MRL's GP9 #132 with it showing on the front end of the side sill , next to the white painted flash. Loco type to it's left and F to the right. Not exactly something that might hit you in the eye, unfortunately.
 

Ash Pit

Active Member
Looking at all the posts here, I don't see any that specifically point to NP operations at 1953. Maybe some are similar, I don't know!
Research NP for your time period, see how they operated...maybe they were heavy on the horn.......I don't know!
I'm not asking specifically about the Northern Pacific. If I've stated something about how N.P. operated, it's because my research has pointed it out to me.

Well, then, you'll need to contact Mike Confalone and ask him which end of his custom locomotives he considers to be the front.
I guess we should stick to the prototype. Model railroads are the owner's property and they can operate them however they like. I refernced Mr. Confalone's railroad, simply because it may have been operated in opposition to prototype practices. My bad!!!
 

2Tracks

Ol' School
I'm not asking specifically about the Northern Pacific. If I've stated something about how N.P. operated, it's because my research has pointed it out to me.
I guess we should stick to the prototype
I don't model modern era stuff, my year of aperation is 1953. Also I model the Northern Pacific in this year, so Steamers, F-units, GP-7s, RS-1 & 3 and switchers are available fo service.
I thought we were talking about prototype.
I'm confused!!
 

Ash Pit

Active Member
I thought we were talking about prototype.
I'm confused!!
We are! There really are no written rules on how to operate a model train, I thought model railroads attempt to mimic the prototype! My orginal question is simple! "I'm completely CONFUSED"! Merry Christmas to everyone!
 
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Selector

Well-Known Member
We are! There really are no written rules on how to operate a model train, I thought model railroads attempt to mimic the prototype! My orginal question is simple! "I'm completely CONFUSED"! Merry Christmas to everyone!
It depends on what you want your railroad to be/do. If you are 'modelling', then you probably should pick a prototype and deal with those realities. But, you could always switch it up if it makes sense to do that. Or, if you wish to hold to 'modeler's license', do as you wish to suit your preferences.

Those who paint and decal model locomotives with their own made-up road can do as they please, for example. Suppose, however, that they had trackage rights with the B&O. If they're using their locomotives on B&O trackage, it seems to me you'd want to follow B&O rules for direction of travel for the sake of the host road's personnel doing track maintenance and wanting to keep clear of moving rolling stock.

So, what is your orientation to your locomotives as they are liveried and also your trains? ARE you modeling? Or just freelancing a fictional road? Are you interchanging with a prototype and are you expected to conform to that road's rules, or just when interchanging?
 




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