Walthers decal issues

[zzr1200guy]

Hey all I was applying the decal that came with the kit to a Walthers building after I dull coated the building to lockdown the weathering. some of the decal did not stick down and after 4 to 5 application of Micro Sol they stuck but didn't sink into the siding. I there was some air bubbles so i poke them with a fine pin and applied more Micro Sol and the bubbles pretty much when away. When I tried to sand down some of the high spots to giv it the warn and weathered look 2 of the decals chipped.

Here are some pictures.

That was before i tried weathering and sanding

So, any idea what may have caused this did I not leave the decal soak long enough and not foam to the siding or are they just to thick to do that.

should I try a gloss?

 

[Jim 68cuda]

I had the same experience with the decals included in a new Walthers kit. I too used Micro-sol. The decals didn't want to stick. I ended up doing a water and white glue mixture and brushing it over the decals and under the edges that peeled up. That was the only way I could get them to stick. I didn't do any sanding, so I can't relate to your chipping issue.

 

[NVSrr1500]

So you put on the dull coat first? That is the problem right there. Decals only set on a gloss. They don’t adhere to a dull finish. The dull coat or Matt coat over the decal after application keeps it from chipping

 

[zzr1200guy]

So you put on the dull coat first? That is the problem right there. Decals only set on a gloss. They don’t adhere to a dull finish. The dull coat or Matt coat over the decal after application keeps it from chipping

OK I'll give it a shot on the last side. I have Solivset Aswell so all try that too.

 

[CambriaArea51]

When I do decals I gloss coat first as mentioned above. Then apply decal. After drying gloss coat if you have ghosting otherwise dull coat.

 

[skyliner]

I'll second what NVS mentioned above, decals apply best to a glossy surface. Also, are you using just Micro Sol, or are you using Micro Set as well?

I've been building models since I was young, and the system I've settled on for decals is as follows:

-Paint model, allow to fully dry.
-If matte paint, overcoat with glosscote. An alternative is to paint with gloss paints, then dull coat it later. Allow to dry.
-Apply decals. First use Micro Set (blue bottle). While the decal is soaking in water (I use distilled water since I have hard water where I live), apply a small amount of Micro Set to where you plan to place the decal. Slide the decal into position, the idea is you are placing the decal onto an area already wet with Micro Set.
-When you have the decal in position and snugged down, apply a small amount of Micro Sol on top and around the edges of the decal. Micro Sol will soften the decal and help it conform to the surface. Try not to touch the decal after this, as especially with thin decals, they can be easily torn when softened. If the decal wrinkles slightly during this step, just leave it. As it dries, it should shrink back to the surface.
-Suggest using quality brushes for this, I have two dedicated sable paint brushes I use only for decal work, one for Set and one for Sol.
-After decals are fully dry, overcoat with gloss coat again. The idea is to have decals sandwiched between gloss coats, which will help them blend in better to the surface. Thick decals may require multiple gloss coats.
-If a matte finish is desired, overcoat with dull coat.
-Weather model.
-Apply final overcoat (dull or gloss as desired).

Yes, that's a lot of steps, but will really produce the best decals on your models. Also, I would not weather your model until after applying decals. Weathering is generally done on top of a gloss or dull coat.

I've never sanded decals, not sure why you wanted to do that? All sanding would do is remove some of the decal, and as you saw, greatly increase the chance of tearing or cracking it. If you want to fade or weather decals, I would do it with paint (drybrushing, airbrushing, color wash), pastels, or even colored pencils.

 

[zzr1200guy]

I'll second what NVS mentioned above, decals apply best to a glossy surface. Also, are you using just Micro Sol, or are you using Micro Set as well?

I've been building models since I was young, and the system I've settled on for decals is as follows:

-Paint model, allow to fully dry.
-If matte paint, overcoat with glosscote. An alternative is to paint with gloss paints, then dull coat it later. Allow to dry.
-Apply decals. First use Micro Set (blue bottle). While the decal is soaking in water (I use distilled water since I have hard water where I live), apply a small amount of Micro Set to where you plan to place the decal. Slide the decal into position, the idea is you are placing the decal onto an area already wet with Micro Set.
-When you have the decal in position and snugged down, apply a small amount of Micro Sol on top and around the edges of the decal. Micro Sol will soften the decal and help it conform to the surface. Try not to touch the decal after this, as especially with thin decals, they can be easily torn when softened. If the decal wrinkles slightly during this step, just leave it. As it dries, it should shrink back to the surface.
-Suggest using quality brushes for this, I have two dedicated sable paint brushes I use only for decal work, one for Set and one for Sol.
-After decals are fully dry, overcoat with gloss coat again. The idea is to have decals sandwiched between gloss coats, which will help them blend in better to the surface. Thick decals may require multiple gloss coats.
-If a matte finish is desired, overcoat with dull coat.
-Weather model.
-Apply final overcoat (dull or gloss as desired).

Yes, that's a lot of steps, but will really produce the best decals on your models. Also, I would not weather your model until after applying decals. Weathering is generally done on top of a gloss or dull coat.

I've never sanded decals, not sure why you wanted to do that? All sanding would do is remove some of the decal, and as you saw, greatly increase the chance of tearing or cracking it. If you want to fade or weather decals, I would do it with paint (drybrushing, airbrushing, color wash), pastels, or even colored pencils.

I usually used micro set but could find it and did YouTube search and a couple of videos I found said micro sol would be fine so I sent it.
I ordered the micro set this morning.

How long do you all let your decals soak?
I waited till they started to slide a bit maybe i should had let them soak a bit longer.

 

[NVSrr1500]

The gloss, decal, solvent, dull coat. process goes for all decals

 

[skyliner]

I usually used micro set but could find it and did YouTube search and a couple of videos I found said micro sol would be fine so I sent it.
I ordered the micro set this morning.

How long do you all let your decals soak?
I waited till they started to slide a bit maybe i should had let them soak a bit longer.

I don't let my decals soak too long, maybe 20-45 seconds. I also use warm water most of the time. Then I place it on a paper towel until it floats free. That can sometimes take a couple minutes. The initial soaking is all it usually needs to get it started, it doesn't need to sit in the water continuously until it releases from the paper. Old or particularly stubborn decals might need a second dunking, but quality decals should work with just a quick soak.

 

[NVSrr1500]

Other decal setting solutions are Walthers solvaset It is a stronger formula. If you are crazy enough, MEK will do it too. I found that out by accident.

 

[Mixed Freight]

I don't let my decals soak too long, maybe 20-45 seconds. I also use warm water most of the time. Then I place it on a paper towel until it floats free. That can sometimes take a couple minutes. The initial soaking is all it usually needs to get it started, it doesn't need to sit in the water continuously until it releases from the paper. Old or particularly stubborn decals might need a second dunking, but quality decals should work with just a quick soak.

Skyliner (or anyone else), just curious, but what's the reasoning for not letting decals soak too long? I know other folks recommend this method also, which is why I'm wondering. I generally let mine soak right up until they're able to slide on the backing paper, before removing them from the water.

 

[skyliner]

Skyliner (or anyone else), just curious, but what's the reasoning for not letting decals soak too long? I know other folks recommend this method also, which is why I'm wondering. I generally let mine soak right up until they're able to slide on the backing paper, before removing them from the water.

When I was younger, I used to let decals soak much longer, until they came off the backer. I lost a number of decals that way, they'd float off and fold over themselves or ball up.

I don't know if this is true, but I've also heard that soaking too long can reduce the adhesive on the decal as some of it wicks away while underwater.

 

[Mixed Freight]

When I was younger, I used to let decals soak much longer, until they came off the backer. I lost a number of decals that way, they'd float off and fold over themselves or ball up.

I don't know if this is true, but I've also heard that soaking too long can reduce the adhesive on the decal as some of it wicks away while underwater.

I have had decals float off the backing paper if left for too long in the water. Agreed, that can make life difficult trying to retrieve them without damage. Which is why I remove them the minute they are able to slide.

I dunno, but is there actually an adhesive on the back side of the decals? I suppose there could be, as I have maneuvered plenty of decals into place and wicked out the excess water before applying any setting solution. And they do seem to stay in place quite well until I get the setting solution(s) applied. On the other hand, for as long as I generally let them soak, I would think any adhesive would be washed off before I apply them. Just don't know for sure. As long as they turn out good, and they usually do for me, I guess I won't get too worried about it.

 

[Espeefan]

Whose decal film itis important. Micro Sol and Set work best with their decals. You might try Walthers Solvaset or DDV (same thing) The thicker the film the more solution it takes to get it to lay down. Decals do go on best over a gloss finish. They will go on over a dull finish, but you are more likely to get "silvering" (air trapped under the decal). Don't sand your decals. Try instead using a sponge dipped in your wall color and blotted almost dry. Dab it on the decal. You'll get a nice peeling paint effect. Don't drag the sponge, just blot.

 

[zzr1200guy]

Thanks guys it looks like it a little of both. I clear glossed the last side and applied the Micro-Sol to the model then slid the decal on and coat it generously with the Micro-Sol and it pulled down much better not perfect but 100 times better and of courses it the side you don't see.

I'll have pictures up Monday when I get home.