uncoupling?


Airslide

The Flange Squeal
looking for any experience with uncoupling devices? i google everything first, but in this case im really looking for the benefit of experience because the ad always says "this will work". i wound up on Kadee's site and they have quite a few from a fully motorized deal to a slab magnet positioned between the rails. from the description, its hard for me to understand how this works without something actually opening the grip. anyone ever use one of these or something better that automatically uncouples cars and works consistently or fairly well?
 
I use delayed undertrack Kadee magnets. Been using them ever since they came out in the 50's. I've tried many others & I like these the best. I probably have about 30 on my layout.
 
Best uncoupling tool I ever found is a small screwdriver or a bamboo skewer. Works every time and I don't have to remember where a magnet is.
 
Pretty much all the uncouplers mentioned above work fine. But you can't just stop your train and uncouple it. It will require just slightly backing the train to take the load off the couplers, then pulling forward, leaving the uncoupled car sitting over the uncoupler magnet.

The magnet bars work fine, but if you ever back a train and stop over it, it will uncouple. The KaDee powered uncoupler works just like the bar magnet, but will only uncouple when you power it.

I also have a Rix (I think) "wish bone" uncoupler that you use manually. It also works fine, but once again the train must be backed up to take the tension off the coupler, then pulled forward while the "wisbone" is still in place.

There is the "5 finger" or "Hand of God" uncoupler, and Jeffrey's fav, "The Bamboo Skewer" uncoupler, both which also work well. :D

Rotor
 
well, here is what i have in my head. on the 12X8 bench that i already have which has been striped down to the bare plywood, i want to create an operational hump. now, i understand, to create a true hump yard to prototypical specs would require A LOT more space than that. but this project is really just a temporary 'fix' as i am not at full layout stage yet. but want something interesting and challenging to work on. i would very much like to include a hump in my layout when i get to that point so this is an oportunity to figure out the physics and engineering - or not figure it out. spending time at a real hump, i think the major challenges would be getting the grade just right, employing an effective retard system and of course automatic uncoupling. i dont intend on having any scenery, structures or continously running trains. this will be pure track, roadbed and foam. feedback and suggestions always welcomed.
 


There is the "5 finger" or "Hand of God" uncoupler, and Jeffrey's fav, "The Bamboo Skewer" uncoupler, both which also work well. :D

Rotor
The 'Hand of God' or '0-5-0' as it's sometimes called is used to lift one car slightly so the coupler clears the other coupler. However this doesn/t work with Kadee shelf couplers. The shelf couplers lock together and prevent the couplers from rising or dropping enough to uncouple. Lift the car and you also lift the car it's coupled to. That's where my little screwdriver comes in very handy. As I have a lot of covered hoppers and tank cars, all with shelf couplers you can see where this tool is important. The magnet tools don't work for me because I cut off most of the trip pins.
 
I use the uncoupling tool by Rix. The bamboo thing is a little to much of a challenge for me. Tried it and after a few attempts, threw it away.
I cut the trip pins off some of my locomotives just for appearance. Left them on all the rolling stock. I'm sure I would probably have several pounds of trip pin trimmings if I went through and cut them all off.
 
For manual uncoupling, I recommend the Rix Uncoupling Tool which works really good.

As far as remote coupling, the Kadee magnets work well as long as you make sure the coupler height is correct on each car, each coupler operates correctly and the uncoupling track is relatively level.

Best regards,
Brian
 
The 'Hand of God' or '0-5-0' as it's sometimes called is used to lift one car slightly so the coupler clears the other coupler.

Some of us use that method so much we name ourselves after it. :rolleyes:

Actually, the bamboo skewer is the easiest and most effective method I've used, once I got the little twist techinque down.

The downside I've always wondered about with the magnets is, what if I don't want to uncouple my train at that point, but do at another point three feet away? I don't plan my switching moves that carefully ahead of time.
 
from the description, its hard for me to understand how this works without something actually opening the grip. anyone ever use one of these or something better that automatically uncouples cars and works consistently or fairly well?

The slack in the couplers is what opens the grip when the magnet (which ever you choose) pushes the opposing trip pins apart...

I would personally choose kadee every time...
 
This video should visually explain a LOT for anyone who is unfamiliar with the Kadee system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A51sBEm6VFA

I would say this is a reliable system once your hardware is tuned appropriately. The couplers need to be centered between the rails and parallel with the rails in order for the magnet to perform its job accurately, which means the track needs to be straight for several inches on each side of the magnet. Trip pins need to be low enough to activate over the magnet, but not so low that they drag on track-work and cause derailments.

Another method that hasn't been talked about, which I started a thread on some time ago, is DCC uncoupling. I don't think there is a drop-in product yet, but it will be pricey if anyone ever figures out a simple system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNwwGSjRqgE

I've used between the rails, under the rails, and electro-magnet uncouplers. Under the rails is really nice, and electro is a nice addition but cranks up the cost and complication. It does allow you to put uncouplers into more places, such as main lines, without having to worry about negative results.
 
I just use my hands. As for bunching up the slack to make a cut....it's the same way in real life. You can't pull the pin while the slack is stretched out.
 
Ah, yes - the slack factor is one i had not considered...soon as i read that it made complete sense. thanks all for the info and ideas..and Loud for the reference videos too. sometimes I have to see things to get it.
 
Airslide I hope you can follow the train of thought on this to achieve what it is that you want to do, and obviously, this is just how I would go about it..

I would use an electromagnet, or use a Kadee #308 (which is the wide under board magnet) mounted on a pivot so that it will drop away from the baseboard when not needed. Line this first magnet up to hold the front axle of the car, as the real device does in the hump yard. If you use rolling stock with metal axles, the #308 magnet will hold the car in place if you mount it directly under the sleepers. I would then put an in between the rails magnet to activate the rear coupler (the instant type not the delayed one).. Because your pushing the train, you will automatically have the slack in the couplers.. Once you hit the uncoupling magnet, release the holding magnet and the piece of rolling stock will free roll to where you want it..

Now the only proviso to this setup is that in order for this to work flawlessly, you would have to use cars that all have exactly the same length between the front axles & rear couplers in order that the holding magnet and the uncoupling magnet work in unison..

Hope this helps, or at least gives you food for thought...
 
Over the many years that I have been building MR's I've found that when you make a grade to sharp or not enough transition from the flat to the grade your cars will uncouple by themselves w/out any kind of magnet. To make a car roll freely down a slight grade all you need is metal wheels on that car that turn effortlessly in the slighest down movement. To make it easier, cut the glad hand hose off of the engine & you can leave the rest on all the rolling stock. To test this, take a 3ft rail & add another 3 ft. rail sweeping down just a little to make the cars disconnect. The only problem you will have is going out of the downhill to the flat track. all the cars will try to disconnect. Solution; have a switcher at the bottom to push all of the cars back up to the flat track to connect to the pulling engine. The Hump Yard downhill track only has to be at a slight angle to get all of the cars to roll freely w/metal wheels & smooth journals.
We've been talking for years about how to slow a car down in a hump yard so it wouldn't crash into the rest & so far no one has figured it out. Some cars will always roll super easy & then you will have those that no matter how much you do, won't roll at all.
Larry
 
We've been talking for years about how to slow a car down in a hump yard so it wouldn't crash into the rest & so far no one has figured it out. Some cars will always roll super easy & then you will have those that no matter how much you do, won't roll at all.
Larry

Larry, I would also use Kadee magnet #308 for this as well.. I don't know if you've ever used them before? With the metal plate beneath it & mounted directly under the ties, it has quite a pull..

Another option to slow them down would be to play with rare earth magnets, maybe one, maybe a few spaced out (depends how fast the cars are travelling).. Obviously you want enough forward momentum so that the car doesn't stop all together over the magnet, but enough of a tug to slow it down as it passes over...
 
Over the many years that I have been building MR's I've found that when you make a grade to sharp or not enough transition from the flat to the grade your cars will uncouple by themselves w/out any kind of magnet. To make a car roll freely down a slight grade all you need is metal wheels on that car that turn effortlessly in the slighest down movement. To make it easier, cut the glad hand hose off of the engine & you can leave the rest on all the rolling stock. To test this, take a 3ft rail & add another 3 ft. rail sweeping down just a little to make the cars disconnect. The only problem you will have is going out of the downhill to the flat track. all the cars will try to disconnect. Solution; have a switcher at the bottom to push all of the cars back up to the flat track to connect to the pulling engine. The Hump Yard downhill track only has to be at a slight angle to get all of the cars to roll freely w/metal wheels & smooth journals.
We've been talking for years about how to slow a car down in a hump yard so it wouldn't crash into the rest & so far no one has figured it out. Some cars will always roll super easy & then you will have those that no matter how much you do, won't roll at all.
Larry

I had a train break loose on a crest at the club several weeks ago and over 40 cars that didn't belong to me started to scream down the hill. Luckily I was just a few feet away and quickly grabbed the train. That could have been some bad press right there.

Also, I would suggest constructing a hump yard breaking system the same way the big guys do. Pinch the wheels. A simple bent piece of thin metal between the rails pushing on the inside of both wheels should do nicely. The trick is regulation, which just like the big guys requires speed sensors and the ability to adjust the pressure of the breaking system.

The additional thing to consider is based on the track you're sending them to you'll want the cars to travel different distances. And different cars are going to carry speed differently - or put another way, decelerate less quickly. It all becomes very tricky very fast.

You end up needing a long run after the hump before the brakes, and then again before the turnout array, then likely another set of brakes either mixed into the turnouts or on each yard track. The speed sensor(s) need to be just prior to the breaks.

The time I spent watching the North Little Rock hump yard in action there was at least one switch engine at the far end of the hump yard that was constantly tidying up the cars when they'd stop short.

Then if you want to take it a step further! Your cars will need some kind of RFID mechanism, a scanner, and a computer system that will automatically flip turnouts based on the inbound car.

If you're going to do it you might as well go all out, right? ;):D
 
We've been talking for years about how to slow a car down in a hump yard so it wouldn't crash into the rest & so far no one has figured it out.

this scares me...lol. in all seriousness, nothing motivates like someone saying it has not been done yet. i have seen it done on a couple of youtube videos the concept is there and working, but i have yet to see realistic retard process. the videos i have seen have the cars jetting down the tracks at unrealistic speeds.

all the feedback is definitly food for thought, thanks.

scord - i do follow except for the term "sleeper". I had to google that one lol. until now i thought a sleeper was a passenger car where passengers can sleep. all of my cars have metal wheels..but not all of them have metal couplers. all of the BB kits have the stock plastic couplers. Of the ones that have metal couplers, not all are kadee. so i will have some retrofitting to do - which was part of the plan anyway. all my cars are packed away, excpet the ones on my workbench. i am not sure if the axel to coupler distance is the same on all of them but thats easy enough to check once i get this show on the road.

at least in concept, i now have an understanding for consistent uncoupling. now for the retard factor. not factoring in variations in car weight and freewheel speed i have a couple of ideas.

i fully expect that much of this operation will be manual. switch flipping, cleaning, sorting, etc. the parts that i would like to see fully automatic are only the uncoupling and retarding.

this project is more of a trial than an operation in a real layout, well not yet. i do not intend for this to be a full sized, or even close to full sized hump yard. no computerized sorting or radio tagging. i simply want to try it on a small scale to see if it is worth including in plans for a full layout. i probably wont begin until mid november only because i have some winter prep projects around the house and some tidying up of my own to do. i cant imagine getting away with starting on a train project with any of that stuff undone..but by all means please keep the ideas coming.
 



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