Track Main Bus?


Update - I just tried it and yes it does work, you can connect your track wiring from your controller (DC at least) to a proper terminal board and then run X amount of Bus Wire Sets from that Terminal Block to power your Drop Feeders.

Now I am going back to bed as I'm sick as a dog and not in the best of moods so I probably shouldn't have posted anything ...
 
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For what it's worth, I'm glad you did post. It's a simple question you asked, but it depends on so many things--the size of your layout, the scale (which can really matter and affect the code size of your rail and the corresponding wire gauge)...........the number or trains you want to run, etc.

"What have I caused?" Lay the blame for that on my shoulders. You didn't, I just respond that way--too long, too wordy, and too lecturing almost all the time. I'm well aware of it, and while it might have had its time and place in my past, it's not very helpful today. Which is why I usually don't chime into a given thread until it's run a fair course along and I can spot where something new might help the ideas converge.

But you didn't cause it. If you caused it, I'd be sending you a bill. :D I won't be.

No. Actually you inspired it, and I thank you for it.

I could show you, right now, a piece of the wire screen I bought when you were asking about fencing. It was something I had thought about for years, but hadn't looked over again once I moved to N-scale whole hog. I had thrown out the idea of using "tulle," which is well known, but which might not have been examined for N-scale.

So your question got me thinking. Which is pretty cool, I think.

I might even have some answers too--I've tried a couple other ways to build chain link fencing since you floated the question. I wouldn't have tried it if you hadn't asked about it.

Which is just one example of why I thank you.
 
Grief - what have I caused ??

I probably didn't explain things too well and the diagram I used just made things worse I think. So hopefully this will explain everything:

Instead of having ONE Main Bus with a number of joins in it to create other bus wires (3 loops so 3 main buses if you like) I want to run each of the main buses from a terminal block that has segregated + and - terminals as I have drawn, and yes they exists, I have a number of them.

GpaybuQ.jpg


My way of thinking is this should be able to be done without any complicated explanations. Instead of running my track bus from the controller I'll be connecting the controller to a terminal block and running the Bus Wires from it instead. This has nothing to do with Drop Feeders, like the diagram probably suggests. If there is a reason that can't be done, okay then it can't be done for some reason and I'll just do it the old fashioned way.
FWIW, this IS actually two terminal blocks and not just one after all. It's just two terminal blocks melded into a single (unisolated, it seems)....uh....unprinted circuit board. This is a UCB and not a PCB.

What you have here is two separate terminal blocks screwed underneath to a single, screen-printed board, which is viewed from the top. The top side numbers the terminals and screws in the white ink. The + and - .
 
Sure , controller Rail A to A+ terminal controller Rail B to B- terminal then using 12/2 buss wire black and white , A1 to black buss wire B1 to white side of buss wire , A2 to black buss wire B2 to white side of buss wire , A3 to black buss wire B3 to white side of buss wire .Basicly the terminal strip is the same as a Powershield circuit breaker without the circuit breaker. Certainly looks heavy duty enough.
 
Update - I just tried it and yes it does work, you can connect your track wiring from your controller (DC at least) to a proper terminal board and then run X amount of Bus Wire Sets from that Terminal Block to power your Drop Feeders.

Now I am going back to bed as I'm sick as a dog and not in the best of moods so I probably shouldn't have posted anything ...
Tony get feeling better so we can talk about the new improved layout, I miss that conversation. :)
 
I don't get it. The whole purpose of the buss wire is to travel the entire layout with little to no voltage drop. Why separate it? This will just require more wire for connecting in a star fashion. What am I missing?
This doesn't really separate it like blocks, it just adds more wire.
 
Yeah I think Hutch has a point, unless we’re misinterpreting your intent that is.
Here's what I use, somewhat similar to the distribution board you showed.
The first pic is power to my three buses; mainline, yard, and paper mill.
The second is from one of the buses to drop feeders along the way.
I have four or five of these along the way.

C4D79118-6CF7-4F13-99A8-3E4FD89909C9.jpeg

07A52D2B-357C-45FA-A1AA-38AB129B0723.jpeg
 
I don't get it. The whole purpose of the buss wire is to travel the entire layout with little to no voltage drop. Why separate it? This will just require more wire for connecting in a star fashion. What am I missing?
This doesn't really separate it like blocks, it just adds more wire.
I see what you're saying here, but....

Those of us with bigger layouts, are you suggesting 1 continuous bus line? I would need approximately a 200+ ft bus line.

I thought the rule was to go no more than 40 or so ft, so the star branching out from a terminal block made sense. Am I wrong in that thinking?

Now Im confused. Is that not the right way to do it?
 
I see what you're saying here, but....

Those of us with bigger layouts, are you suggesting 1 continuous bus line? I would need approximately a 200+ ft bus line.

I thought the rule was to go no more than 40 or so ft, so the star branching out from a terminal block made sense. Am I wrong in that thinking?

Now Im confused. Is that not the right way to do it?
Ima kinda confused on this too. To me, it does not make sense to 'home run' wires from the that terminal strip to track segments. With a small layout, power can follow the tracks with feeders where necessary. As the layout gets bigger, you may need to add some sort of terminators at the end of the run(s). In my case, the layout is 140ft around which will be split up into power sections. Each power section will have a booster ( or whatever ) in the middle of the section with power running in each direction following the track. I use Digitrax and from what I think I have read about Loconet, it is more or less the same as network cabling - 100 meters which would work for a huge layout.

Later
 
Ima kinda confused on this too. To me, it does not make sense to 'home run' wires from the that terminal strip to track segments. With a small layout, power can follow the tracks with feeders where necessary. As the layout gets bigger, you may need to add some sort of terminators at the end of the run(s). In my case, the layout is 140ft around which will be split up into power sections. Each power section will have a booster ( or whatever ) in the middle of the section with power running in each direction following the track. I use Digitrax and from what I think I have read about Loconet, it is more or less the same as network cabling - 100 meters which would work for a huge layout.

Later
Maybe that should be clarified? Loconet for when you have 'tethered' controllers. If you are using wifi/radio then you are pretty much line of sight and could be a really huge area. For me, road engineers and not so local switching would be radio, tethered for yards and/or terminals.

Clear as mud? Good.

Later
 
I see what you're saying here, but....

Those of us with bigger layouts, are you suggesting 1 continuous bus line? I would need approximately a 200+ ft bus line.

I thought the rule was to go no more than 40 or so ft, so the star branching out from a terminal block made sense. Am I wrong in that thinking?

Now Im confused. Is that not the right way to do it?
The problem with using a star type buss wire on a large DCC layout is that the signals end up reaching your decoder from two different directions milliseconds apart which can confuse the decoder. Simpler (and safer) to use one buss wire with boosters or isolated sections of track with boosters, if you want to use the "star" system.

Even on my small layout I use one buss cable and a terminal block, if running DC as Tony is currently doing you obviously don't have that issue as all your doing is increasing the power to the track.

That's my understanding of it anyway.
 
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The problem with using a star type buss wire on a large DCC layout is that the signals end up reaching your decoder from two different directions milliseconds apart which can confuse the decoder. Simpler (and safer) to use one buss wire with boosters or isolated sections of track with boosters, if you want to use the "star" system.

Even on my small layout I use one buss cable and a terminal block, if running DC as Tony is currently doing you obviously don't have that issue as all your doing is increasing the power to the track.

That's my understanding of it anyway.
Ok Chris, that makes sense.

I will be using a booster, also serving as the command station since I'm wireless.

So what I gather is: put the booster in the middle, and run bus wires in opposite directions around till they meet?

Which brings us to the next clinker: Do you join them? there is much debate on how to properly terminate the bus. Any thoughts on this?
 
Found this table and from what i can see, you'd need a huge layout to have any noticeable voltage drop using 14 awg wire for the bus.
Screenshot_20230520_111229_Chrome.jpg
I'd be very surprised if a home layout saw much more than amp draw from a few running trains.
 
So what I gather is: put the booster in the middle, and run bus wires in opposite directions around till they meet?
The problem with any of this is that it's very subjective, everyone has different ideas as to what is essentially "best practice" I know modellers who run huge lengths of buss wire (150'+) with no problem, others use terminal blocks and/or boosters, and some use a "star" type system, they all seem to think their way works best, we're really just trying to cover everything possible.

The only thing we can really do is try to eliminate as many "potential" problems as we can, even though we don't know if their is a problem at all.

They way you suggest for your layout seems the most practical to me.
I would isolate the track to create as many sections as is practicable to you, and run buss wire's to each section, in which ever way also works for you, you also may want to add circuit protection, so if you have a short only that one district is affected, also makes trouble shooting easier as you know which district has the problem.
 
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Interesting conversation. Just starting to build my first small to medium sized n scale layout and plan on running a 12/2 main bus wired back to a couple of TAM Valley circuit breakers breaking my layout into couple of power districts. Might add a third circuit breaker/power district for my staging yard. Circuit breakers wired back to the command station. The track will have feeders connected directly to the bus with suitcase connectors. I will only use terminal blocks where needed (perhaps in the yards?).
 
Interesting conversation. Just starting to build my first small to medium sized n scale layout and plan on running a 12/2 main bus wired back to a couple of TAM Valley circuit breakers breaking my layout into couple of power districts. Might add a third circuit breaker/power district for my staging yard. Circuit breakers wired back to the command station. The track will have feeders connected directly to the bus with suitcase connectors. I will only use terminal blocks where needed (perhaps in the yards?).
Depending on how large a staging yard your building a circuit breaker for that seems like a good idea.

I looked at the TAM circuit breakers, but at $40 in the UK, I've never bothered. I have some similar ones from China, never used them yet.
 
Depending on how large a staging yard your building a circuit breaker for that seems like a good idea.

I looked at the TAM circuit breakers, but at $40 in the UK, I've never bothered. I have some similar ones from China, never used them yet.
Tam Valley circuit breakers are $34 here plus shipping. Considering how much DCC locos are these days seems like relatively good value for protecting our equipment. They're cheaper than some of the options out there and work well. I'm just starting out new so all my stuff is new (so far).
 



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