The New Proto 2000 GP60

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It looks good except the $200 DCC ready price. I hope they have some serious upgrades since they were last released for about half that. Joe Martin of Sherline said in his book he prices things by flinch factor, it the customer fliches just a little it's a good price. Walthers is pretty far past the flinch for me, well into the walk away range. The most I ever paid for a P2K engine is about $45 but I only have 8 of them.
 
I would have to say the price is high for them. Even the ones without sound are still near $200. You can get an Athearn RTR or even a non sound Genisis for cheaper.
 


Not surprisingly, these are the same thoughts I was having. I just thought maybe, just maybe there had been a quantum leap in Proto 2000 quality, running qualities, detail.
 
The to be released Athearn Genesis GP9 will be right up there with the Proto stuff. Everybody is having 15% to 30% price increases this year according to the rep's for the LHS. The Chinese worrker's are demanding better pay and benefits, and its costing us as the end users of the models. Granted its we the modeler that desires and demands these models have the detail of brass models, run super smooth and quiet and come with sound and DCC as an option. Thus we have the prices to go with it. Producing the models as limited runs, much like the brass market, has served to drive up the prices even further. I wait for dumping sales and closeouts, they are out there and most any road name can be had with a little patience and searching, both online, thru the LHS and at a few shows. Cheers Mike
 
Couldnt agree more, Mike. It looks like this will be one of those that I will look for in the Walthers "Bargain Bin."

Thing is, at those price points, we expect some quality control, which anyone who has been in the hobby for even a couple years knows, has clearly been slipping. Yes, these are little man-made machines, and as such they every once in awhile break down and need repair. And we also see issues with the supply chain and inventory; Intermountain GEVO anyone?...

Also, got an email today from a hobby shop saying that Walthers is raising its prices 10% April 1,2011.

Ive said for a long time to anyone who will listen--we need to get back to quality in this country. And by this country, I mean our country, our people, our citizens should be the one leading the fight back to producing and demanding quality in everything. From the food we consume, to the cars we drive, to the model trains we collect, to the politicians we elect to represent us. The time for cheaper and more should end. I dont mind paying more if it means things taste good, are better for me, make me live longer, hold resale value, burns a heck of alot less fuel, and just basically works the way its supposed to.
 
I might get the two NS ones. I'll have to shop around though. If I can get a 30% discount, the price for the sound equipped ones would be somewhat decent.

Does anyone know if Walthers made an announcement online? I'd like to see whether they changed the gear ratio (the 12:1 ratio was very nice and matched the Athearns although the de facto industry standard is 14:1)
 
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And its not just engines, recently there was a list that Walthers set out to the shops wanting to know if they produced certain buildings at a certain price, would the shop order any. The prices were outragious when compared to current market pricing. Espicaly when if your patient, after the initial sales, they seem to dump them onto the sale list and you can get them much much cheaper. They are not alone, everybodys pricing is getting out of hand, look at what current production rolling stock goes for. Im not saying its not nice stuff, far from it. The stuff on the market today, was once the realm of brass imports and the price to boot! Who ever thought we would see UP Turbines in plastic, or the upcomming U50d and DD40ax from Athearn. Granted one must have the layout to run them on, or a nice shelf and the disposable income to buy them as well. I will stay with smaller engines, older runs that are more affordable. My Atlas RSD's are fairly recent issue with the individual grabs ect. I would get the older Atlas/Kato ones, but the blue paint was way to light. I actualy feel sorry for new moderers that just look at current items, the prices on them would put my out of the hobby if I was just starting out as a teenager again. The new proto stuff is nice, just be patient and wait for them to hit the streets and the prices will adjust themselves automaticly, they always do. Mike
 
$200 a pop! Wow! Thats alittle scary isn't it?! I'm getting alittle tired of all the recent markups and don't quite agree with the sheer lack of quality by whats being put out. I have always been a fan of highly detailed rolling stock and locos. I applaud Walthers for finally jumping on board by building some very nice models as of lately, but after I found myself paying $34 a piece for discounted TILX ethanol cars for my train! Gees! I understand that the Chinese laborers are asking for more money and better benefits and all...Shouldn't us modelers be demanding a better product in return though? Of the 5 Walthers cars I have recently purchased, both TILX tankers (while are very pretty) had end rails that had come unglued and the package hadn't even been unsealed yet, and one of the new ADM four bay hoppers had a roof walk that looked as if it had been unglued and possibly jarred against something. Again, the boxes on these cars were perfect and it takes alittle more than just shaking to do this sort of damage. Don't even ask about my Athearn SD70ACe problems. While Walthers and Athearn both are great companies and have offered help for all these issues and more, why is it we are paying so much more for less than we were offered just yesterday?

Also, I doubt that these nice GP60's will be any different than the previous offerings. Great looking none the less, but I don't think $299 for a sound unit is even close to reasonable. I could have understood the $30 price tag for the 3 hopper cars I just bought (man, they are gorgeous) but guys, don't you think there is something as modelers that we can do? I will keep buying no matter what, but how much more can they expect us to pay for less? Just a thought...

-Rich
 
Well, most people don't pay MSRP. At most places, I can get a 20% discount on things, so with a 20% discount, it's $240 with sound. I'd factor in about $90 for the sound (Tsunami is about $80, speaker about $10) which would make $150 base loco + the sound. Not a deal by any means but reasonable.

If I can get a 30% discount (my LHS tends to give 30% discounts off MSRP) then that's $210. $90 for the sound plus $120 for the loco. Still reasonable.

The $90 that I factored in for the sound doesn't include the time needed to do the installation, solder, shrink tubing, flux, soldering iron... you get the picture.
 


The Athearn Blue Box GP60 is beyond wrong. If I was desperate enough, I'd get a foobie GP60M, strip it, take the cab off, and swap it for a cannon cab, which would probably cost me as much as a P2K model anyway.
 
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