Strasburg vs. Real Short Lines


C

cmcgloughlin

New Member
HI everyone
Question - I am a beleiver in modeling "what you know." I happen to know a lot about the Strasburg Railroad, a heritage short-line railroad in Lancaster County (many of you I am sure know it). I have been there like 100 times.

My question is this. The Strasburg as it currently runs has a point to point arrangement with passing siding at each terminal (the first at the station, the second at Paradise, which is really nothing but an Amtrak interlocking). In this arrangment the loco of the railroad pull the passenger cars "forward", get to Paradise, pass on the side, then reconnect "backwards" and pull the train back to Strasburg station, disconnect, pass on the side then reconnect to the front.

The direction that the loco never changes, only the direction it runs and its relationship to the cars.

Yet, when I look at pictures of old shortlines I never seem to see pictures of the engines arranged in the "backwards-pulling" direction. Is that because there was always a round house or wye at one end? Or have I just not seen the right pictures?

Anyway, I was thinking about modeling a shortline arrangment like the strasburg, as it presents an easy swithcing routine which will help me get past the "display layout" trap I am in now. But I was interested in doing it "authentic" so if Strasburg is an abberation I would like to at least know it.

Thoughts? Thanks

charlie
 
I'm no expert, but many passenger terminals required backing a train into the station, so the locomotive and the train was pointing the right direction. You do that with a wye. Since steam power usually ran for about a 100 miles before refueling, changing locomotives, changing crews, there usually was a small engine shop and turntable, if it was a through train, then the first loco was pulled off the train, rolled over to servicing, and a second locomotive (all ready to go with a fresh crew) coupled with the train, and then it moves on out.

If a train was returning, then there would be a layover. For example, say a train left Town A at 8 am (no, this isn't an algebra question) and got to the end of the line at 12 pm (100 miles away, not a fast train with lots of stops), then by 4 pm that same train is ready to return to Town A, after the loco has been refueled, water and sand added, the crew rested, the cars cleaned and restocked, etc. by 8 pm.
 
I've thought about modeling modern scenic railroads as well. Seems like a fairly simple thing to do. And could be lots of fun, considering their based on beautiful scenery and you can ride the real one occasionally for inspiration.
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cmcgloughlin said:
The Strasburg as it currently runs has a point to point arrangement with passing siding at each terminal....

....The direction that the loco never changes, only the direction it runs and its relationship to the cars.
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Charlie,

Great question. I have always wondered the same thing! I never knew why they never turned it around.

Personally, I am very intent on modeling this line in my basement. I want to be able to have all the aspects of the railroad itself, but I may have to imply the "Modeler's License", based on space constraints (see below).

I am quite content on having the locomotive always in one direction.

I may however have a roundy-round on the outer limits on the layout just to have a train or two running.

There is one thing that is REQUIRED to be on the layout. The Red Caboose Motel is a requirement! I am unsure if I can actually put it where it is on the layout as it is the the line in real life. Modeler's License can be helpful!

BTW, will you be modeling the new switching yard the Strasburg Railroad now has? They recently received a $1 million grant from the state to build up a yard infrastructure as more local industries are finding it cheaper and easier to have their "goods" delivered to the yard and pick them up / have them delivered from there. Might add some spice to the layout! Old time railway meets modern day freight cars! 8-D
 
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I'm only going by memory here (and that memory gets more feeble each day), but I think the Texas State Railroad has Y tracks at each end of their line. I can't recall ever seeing the steam locos running backwards while pulling a train.
 
JazzDad said:
I'm only going by memory here (and that memory gets more feeble each day), but I think the Texas State Railroad has Y tracks at each end of their line. I can't recall ever seeing the steam locos running backwards while pulling a train.
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Judging by the satellite photos I believe you are correct. Though the wye at Rusk is a little difficult to identify.
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Weren't plans for the future to include a roundhouse & turntable at Strasburg & possibly a turntable at Paradise?? It's been years since I lived in Reading, PA and visited the railroad. I thought I remembered they ran tender first to Paradise & engine first on the return trip. You could also model their two diesels - and the museum across the street.
 
I was at Strasburg early one morning and they were unloading building supplies in the yard. It's good to see an old short line used for revenue service again.
 
LoudMusic said:
Judging by the satellite photos I believe you are correct. Though the wye at Rusk is a little difficult to identify.
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Yep. There are wyes at both ends, and a turntable in the middle at Maydelle.

I went on their Polar Express back in November, and we backed up (the steam engine was on the back of the train for the first part of the trip). I don't know if there was an Alco diesel on the front-departing the Palestine depot-(it was dark and I couldn't walk down to the end of the train) upon departure, but think so, since whatever was there had a rotary beacon on it.

The Austin Steam Train uses a wye to get onto the line at Cedar Park. If you are going as far as Bertram (with the Alco RSD15), then the train goes a little farther west onto a passing siding, and then the loco runs around and couples back on the train (without the loco turning around). However, if going to Burnet, it uses the wye there to back the whole train into the depot, so the loco is in front both ways, facing the same direction.
 
If you had the choice of taking a picture of a steam engine pulling a train pilot first or of an engine running tender first, which would you take?

You probably see 1000 pictures of steam engines taken on a sunny day for every picture of one in the rain, but trains run rain or shine.

One thing you have to take into consideration is that the pictures that get taken and the ones that get published are the "good" pictures, they are composed nicely, well lit, etc. Especially in days gone by when film was relatively more expensive, you had to plan your shots more carefully and you wouldn't want to 'waste' a shot on a poorly lit or composed scene.

I don't believe the Strasburg ever had any turning facilities.

As far as the Strasburg RR being a "real" shortline, it most certainly is a real shortline. It is in fact THE oldest railroad still doing business under its original name (founded in 1832). Second oldest is Union Pacific.
 
Just to illustrate my comments about picture choice.

We know that for the past 180 years literally 1/2 of the trains on the Strasburg RR operated with the engine backwards.

In the book "The Road to Paradise" about the resurgence of the Strasburg as a tourist line there are 37 pictures of steam hauled trains. Only 4 of them show the engine running backwards.
 
The initial purpose of the Strasburg RR was to deliver carload freight to customers in the vicinity of the agricultural town of Strasburg, PA. Back when everyone, not just the Amish used horse drawn wagons and buggies, the trip from Strasburg to Leaman Place (on the PRR) was considerably more than a five minute drive over a paved highway.

My first visit to the Strasburg was well over 45 years ago, when the line was first resurected. All that was there was the former Reading station building, a runaround track and a spur. The runaround at Leaman, (Paradise) was about as it is now. There was a leased PRR GS4, a former CN 0-6-0 and a Reading 0-4-0 Camelback both of which were recently surplused from their former owners (the CN and the Birdsboro PA Steel Mill) The Strasburgs defunct 4 wheel gasoline powered switcher was also stored there. They delivered coal to a distributer located where the PA RR Museum stands.

It was all quite basic, no wyes. Not much at all to look at.

BTW: Many of my branchline local freight assignments from my real job with the PRR/PC/Conrail; were on branches that lacked wvwn a runaround. You pulled in one direction, and shoved your train back to the nearest facility where you could get around the train, or you "dropped" the train to get around it.

Joe W.
 
Thanks everyone, this has been a really interesting group of responses. This is making me actually think of modeling the Strasburg... or a reasonable facsimile.

@ Strasburg Nut. I like the "ghost train".... thats going to be in my layout ...
 
If you get out there a couple of hours before opening you can see and get pics of things you dont' always see. Such as loco start up and heating. Steam blowdowns etc.
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Now the CSX branch line near me doesn't have a Y at the end of the line and it has to run the locomotives backwards down the line! But most of the Locomotives run in a set of two or three EMD GP38-2/GP35 slug/GP38-2 locomotive set with the end units facing out. But the Maintenance train (Usually a single GE B unit) has to run backwards down the line with it work train.

I'm sure there are a few Branch lines that run the locomotives back wards! just Why very few photos of it I guess? My new Atlas GP15-1 Came with plows on both ends as does the prototype!
 
In some cases shortlines didn't have wyes or turntables for turning their steam locomotives so they often would run `em backwards. I guess railfans back then didn't like to take pictures of steam locos running tender first. They probably figured "Who the hell wants to look at a train going backwards?" So you probably won't find too many pics of them running that way.
 
I know that the N&W ran the "M" class backwards and documented in a DVD called "Hooters on Blue Ridge." They also ran Y class and Z class articulated engines whatever way when doing mine runs.
 
I'm not sure I agree that a long hood forward diesel counts as 'Backwards'. I'm a natural Southern Railway fan, and a learned Norfolk and Western Railroad fan, and I feel that Long Hood Forward is a fine way to run!

For modern railroading, I feel that using a 'Shoving Platform' counts as backwards. The long coal spurs in the Appalachians with a coal loader at the end of them, the locos shove the whole train + caboose up the branch, load, and lead the train back down to the mainline. The conductor rides the platform of the caboose vice the grabirons of a hopper car.

I suspect that smaller railroads would have run their steamers, and later their F units, backwards. But as others have pointed out, there may not be any photos of these operations.

James
 
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