Starting from nothing

[ned911]

Thought I would seek some advice on where to start as I have absolutely 0 (zilch, nada, nothing) equipment at this time. Layout will need to be a 2x8 or smaller switching layout (thinking about the winner from Space Mouse's contest) and was originally thinking about modeling the steel industry. Specifically Alan Wood Steel from Conshohocken PA but starting to think that will require to much space. I have ordered the Steel Industry book from Kalmbach.


So... do I build a table top, grab some track, loco and power? Any other suggestions on where to actually begin? I'm big on learning from others so fire away.

Finally, currently in Austin but my office is in Addison, TX right down the street from Discount Trains and I'll be paying them a visit next week.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Fazby]

What scale? For 2x8, it sounds like N. Space Mouse's winner was 4x8.

What equipment do you want - minimum radius for big steam is different from smal diesel.

What are your givens and druthers? (See SMs site.)

Why not grab some paper and draw the layout to actual size? This will let you verify the fit and make sure of the radius. At the same time watch for S curves.

 

[ned911]

HO

Here's the link to the 2x8 layouts - http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/2x8Contest.html

 

[SpaceMouse]

I applaud your courage to try to model an industry as a first layout. It shows foresight (even if you decide against it, you are two steps ahead of most first timers.)

Steel operation is huge, but that does not mean you couldn't model a section of it. I recently designed an industry for a 18" by 9 foot layout. IT didn't win, but here it is anyway. You can see what can be done in the space for a solo industry.

I picked an industry to switch: The Arm & Hammer plant at Old Fort OH. Here is a satellite photo of the area. Of course, you will have to extrapolate what the buildings would have looked like in the late 40's. The operations I suspect would have been pretty much the same. Anyway, I can make out covered hoppers, boxcars and tank cars and maybe gondolas off the picture I show. There is a two-track line running east and west into Old Fort.

Here is the area:

Obviously we can't do the entire plant, but we can take two of the more interesting sections and compress them together. The first part is the very end of the track at the bottom of the picture above. The second is the area where a couple tracks diverge off to the west of a big square building near the "top" of the factory buildings.

I rotated the images to match the orientation of the plan. Notice in the first picture there seem to be two types of tipples. The one on the far right for loading tank cars. The one on the left for loading covered hoppers. In the lower picture, you see tank cars on the outside of the square and box cars on the inside of the square, making me think these are raw materials.

As you can see, the two areas are compressed by both location and number of tracks. But you can still get the feel of the operation. Your job will be to find out what they made at the time of your layout and what kind of raw materials you would need to run the operation. They seem to make kitty litter now. I would suspect baking soda, industrial bicarbonate of soda, and possibly fire retardants.

Operations would be run from one of the outside tracks probably the one closest to the edge of the layout. This is where you would place outgoing and incoming loads. (fiddle track) You would take box cars from there and set them along the left side of the track closest to the buildings and bring the empties down for returning to the RR. Full tank cars you would spot at the building at the lower right of the layout.

Likewise you take empty tank cars and hoppers to the appropriate tipple, fill them and return them to the RR.

Edit: I finally figured out why every thing in the photo is so white--decades of spilled product. Will be adding grass and roads. "Dirt" roads along the tracks seem to be a reddish brown clay or gravel.

 

[ned911]

Thanks Chip. All part of the research that has been on going off and on for the last 15 years. Part of the reason for the steel industry choice in PA is family ties. But as a Texan I could easily model ag or beef operations as well or just a couple of fun smaller industries that would make for interesting operations on a small layout.

 

[CBCNSfan]

Hi ned911
the spam filter seems to be blocking all of your posts. I cant see any reason for it to do this.
If it continues I will have Admin look into correcting the problem, in the meantime please be patient and moderators will allow your posts.

Cheers
Willis

 

[SpaceMouse]

Cattle might be good. But so might oil. I might look up Colt 45 or Lone Star's address then find them on google maps. See what they look like on satellite.

 

[DirtyD79]

A site you might want to check out is lancemindheim.com. He built a shelf switching layout set in modern day Miami. Even if you're building something bgger there's still plenty of great stuff to read on it.

 

[ned911]

Thanks for the link, very helpful. So more thoughts...

Givens
Renter = modular layout or easily moved
2x8 with 2x4 modules (can be slightly bigger or smaller)
Scale: HO

Druthers:
Era: late 50's early 60's
Location: Philly mainline (Conshohocken - Devon - Bryn Mawr) yes I know Conshohocken is not on the mainline
Purpose: Operations
Industries: AlanWood Steel (family tie), Yuengling Brewery (my favorite beer), Power Generation (first gig out of school), passenger service (lowest priority)

 

[Fazby]

Sorry. Wrong contest - I only remembered the 4x8 contest.

{walks away red-faced}

 

[Beachbum]

As you've probably seen, you can do an HO layout in 2X8.

One layout which I think is very cool and doesn't chew up a lot of space or $$ on buildings and track is a mainline with one passing / runaround siding. There are two spurs that come of off the siding, one to the left and one to the right for two different (probably small) industries. If you did some magic with the backdrop, you could create the illusion that the spurs lead to something huge. Sorry, I don't have a copy of the trackplan handy but you can take the A&H plan above and flip one spur the other way to get an idea of it. You could maybe add an interchange track.

If you do some judicious planning, you could incorporate this 2X8 into a larger layout at some point. OTOH, it wouldn't be too painful to scrap it later unless you sink a lot of $$ into hyperdetailing it.

 

[steinjr]

Thanks for the link, very helpful. So more thoughts...

Givens
Renter = modular layout or easily moved
2x8 with 2x4 modules (can be slightly bigger or smaller)
Scale: HO

Druthers:
Era: late 50's early 60's
Location: Philly mainline (Conshohocken - Devon - Bryn Mawr) yes I know Conshohocken is not on the mainline
Purpose: Operations
Industries: AlanWood Steel (family tie), Yuengling Brewery (my favorite beer), Power Generation (first gig out of school), passenger service (lowest priority)

Depends on what you mean by "operations". You are not going to be doing much mainline running of trains on 2x8 foot module in H0 scale.

An engine + 6 40' boxcars will take up almost 4 feet of length. 8 feet of shelf is enough to move that train about 2 train lengths. You are not going to be doing much traffic flow simulation in that space.

Not unless you have room for several long staging tracks on either side of the 2x8 foot module, or can hook the 2x8 foot module up to a big loop behind the visible layout or some such thing.

Key to designing small shelf layouts is to pick a subject that can be modeled in little space. What you can do in 2x8 feet in H0 scale is e.g. some industry switching. Not a huge amount of industry switching, but some.

Of course - there is nothing to say that switching a simple track plan needs be boring to operate. Look e.g. at this very simple track and yet how much interesting switching the modeler gets out of it by the use of "sure spots":

http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/2010/02/trackplan-operations.html

Smile,
Stein