All:
As I've been helped by many of you on this forum I hope the info below will help you and future forum readers.
First, a brief background reminder of The Problem: Last year I sold all of my Athearn BB diesels that I'd been using for about 17 years, and purchased some Bmann and Atlas Tman diesels.
Over time I noticed two particular problems especially with the Trainman engines, and posted these on 10-2-10, 10-20-10, and 7-22-11.
Problem #1: The Atlas engines (run in pairs) were making the MRC Tech 2 Railmaster 2400 power pack surfaces in certian areas heat up to too-hot-to-touch temperatures after about 40 minutes of normal running of long trains on flat loops (even though the power packs' circuit breakers never tripped.) From some of your suggestions (thank you) I addressed this in many ways and, surprisingly, nothing changed.
Problem #2: Ninety eight percent of this problem is with the Atlas engines. After a few months following purchase a pair of these would be pulling a train, then suddenly on its own drop its speed about 60%, run that way for 5 to 40 seconds, suddenly go back to its regular speed, and then every 20 seconds up to 5 minutes apart repeat this. It wasn't a power problem; the headlight stayed at the same brightness level. I tried all kinds of things to address this but no success, and concluded (turned out it was incorrect - see below) that I was over-oiling (Wahl oil) the motor bearings and some of the oil was wicking through a bearing and getting on the commutator plates. After much testing and reading the comments/suggestions/experiences here I decided the problem was in the brush/commutator interface. I then even considered trying to disassemble one of the can motors but continually put that off as a possible last resort.
Well, I finally called a person the LHS recommended for doing railcar painting and decaling. This person did a super job adding some decals and painting parts to 3 of my cars, and I hoped he might be able to help. He did - he nailed it.
He said the problem was indeed in the commutator/brushes interface, and that over time "gunk" built up on the brush faces. He had this happen to him and fixed the problem real simply - with Labelle 107 oil.
Just put 1/2 drop of Labelle 107 on the commutator (Labelle even says this oil is for bearings AND commutators) in line with the brushes while the motor is slowly running. This is easy to do through the "air vents" in the motors - no need for disassembling. Then run the motor both ways increasing the speeds (all on the bench). I did so.
I then put the engines (two Atlas RS32s, and two Atlas GP38-2s) back on their trains and have run them, over a period of days, for 5 hours without a single speed hiccup. AND the power packs don't heat up near as much. I AM A HAPPY CAMPER. So far this problem is fixed.
[I imagine the oil disolves? or ? the gunk on the ends of the brushes, and oils the commutator plates enough for less friction but not enough to cause brush/commutator electrical insulation.]
I'll share an iteresting observation. The worst engine was one of the RS32s and I did it first. (As info when it dropped speed it caused its mu'd engine to slow down too, but I never heard any wheel slipping.) After oiling the commutator and running the motor slowly, I finally got it to full speed and its sound (pitch) was interesting. In one of the directions the motor's speed was going back and forth between the old high speed (lower pitch) and a newer high speed (higher pitch.) I let it run figuring it was working itself out, and sure enough after about 20 seconds it finally settled on the high speed.
The irony of this situation is that I thought I might have gotten too much oil on the commutator. It turns out that I didn't, but the solution DID require oil on the commutator - not Wahl, but Labelle 107 which was formulated for that purpose.
So, where do I go from here?
First, monitor these four engines for another 5 hours or so of running. If there are still no problems I’ll figure they are fixed.
Second, I have one of three of the Atlas Trainman GP38-2s that’s always run slower than the other two. I thought it was in the drive train, but when turning the flywheel while holding the engine in the air I felt no unusual resistance. I couldn’t figure it out so it’s been set aside. Now, I’ll bet the problem is electrical and it’s in the brushes/commutator interface. So I’m going to oil the commutator and test it.
Next, I’m going to start using Labelle 107 on the motor and gear tower bearings of all my engines. It's formulated for that too and I bet it does a better job than Wahl. However, I’ll still use the Wahl on the tops of the rails and other uses.
Then, over the next few months go on a program to use this “oil the commutator” method on all the rest my engines – 8 Atlas and about 16 Bachmann. [The Bachmann engines have rarely pulled the "let's slow down, speed back up, and drive the operator crazy" stunt. And even in pairs, pulling the same long trains as the Atlas engines, they have not made the power pack surfaces too hot to touch.]
DougC
As I've been helped by many of you on this forum I hope the info below will help you and future forum readers.
First, a brief background reminder of The Problem: Last year I sold all of my Athearn BB diesels that I'd been using for about 17 years, and purchased some Bmann and Atlas Tman diesels.
Over time I noticed two particular problems especially with the Trainman engines, and posted these on 10-2-10, 10-20-10, and 7-22-11.
Problem #1: The Atlas engines (run in pairs) were making the MRC Tech 2 Railmaster 2400 power pack surfaces in certian areas heat up to too-hot-to-touch temperatures after about 40 minutes of normal running of long trains on flat loops (even though the power packs' circuit breakers never tripped.) From some of your suggestions (thank you) I addressed this in many ways and, surprisingly, nothing changed.
Problem #2: Ninety eight percent of this problem is with the Atlas engines. After a few months following purchase a pair of these would be pulling a train, then suddenly on its own drop its speed about 60%, run that way for 5 to 40 seconds, suddenly go back to its regular speed, and then every 20 seconds up to 5 minutes apart repeat this. It wasn't a power problem; the headlight stayed at the same brightness level. I tried all kinds of things to address this but no success, and concluded (turned out it was incorrect - see below) that I was over-oiling (Wahl oil) the motor bearings and some of the oil was wicking through a bearing and getting on the commutator plates. After much testing and reading the comments/suggestions/experiences here I decided the problem was in the brush/commutator interface. I then even considered trying to disassemble one of the can motors but continually put that off as a possible last resort.
Well, I finally called a person the LHS recommended for doing railcar painting and decaling. This person did a super job adding some decals and painting parts to 3 of my cars, and I hoped he might be able to help. He did - he nailed it.
He said the problem was indeed in the commutator/brushes interface, and that over time "gunk" built up on the brush faces. He had this happen to him and fixed the problem real simply - with Labelle 107 oil.
Just put 1/2 drop of Labelle 107 on the commutator (Labelle even says this oil is for bearings AND commutators) in line with the brushes while the motor is slowly running. This is easy to do through the "air vents" in the motors - no need for disassembling. Then run the motor both ways increasing the speeds (all on the bench). I did so.
I then put the engines (two Atlas RS32s, and two Atlas GP38-2s) back on their trains and have run them, over a period of days, for 5 hours without a single speed hiccup. AND the power packs don't heat up near as much. I AM A HAPPY CAMPER. So far this problem is fixed.
[I imagine the oil disolves? or ? the gunk on the ends of the brushes, and oils the commutator plates enough for less friction but not enough to cause brush/commutator electrical insulation.]
I'll share an iteresting observation. The worst engine was one of the RS32s and I did it first. (As info when it dropped speed it caused its mu'd engine to slow down too, but I never heard any wheel slipping.) After oiling the commutator and running the motor slowly, I finally got it to full speed and its sound (pitch) was interesting. In one of the directions the motor's speed was going back and forth between the old high speed (lower pitch) and a newer high speed (higher pitch.) I let it run figuring it was working itself out, and sure enough after about 20 seconds it finally settled on the high speed.
The irony of this situation is that I thought I might have gotten too much oil on the commutator. It turns out that I didn't, but the solution DID require oil on the commutator - not Wahl, but Labelle 107 which was formulated for that purpose.
So, where do I go from here?
First, monitor these four engines for another 5 hours or so of running. If there are still no problems I’ll figure they are fixed.
Second, I have one of three of the Atlas Trainman GP38-2s that’s always run slower than the other two. I thought it was in the drive train, but when turning the flywheel while holding the engine in the air I felt no unusual resistance. I couldn’t figure it out so it’s been set aside. Now, I’ll bet the problem is electrical and it’s in the brushes/commutator interface. So I’m going to oil the commutator and test it.
Next, I’m going to start using Labelle 107 on the motor and gear tower bearings of all my engines. It's formulated for that too and I bet it does a better job than Wahl. However, I’ll still use the Wahl on the tops of the rails and other uses.
Then, over the next few months go on a program to use this “oil the commutator” method on all the rest my engines – 8 Atlas and about 16 Bachmann. [The Bachmann engines have rarely pulled the "let's slow down, speed back up, and drive the operator crazy" stunt. And even in pairs, pulling the same long trains as the Atlas engines, they have not made the power pack surfaces too hot to touch.]
DougC
