Signal and Crossing requirements...


goscrewyourselves

goscrewyourselves

I'm the one
Evening all,

Now I am redoing my layout, I am wanting to put in working signals and road crossings; however, have no idea of what I need to do OR what equipment I need to buy to make it work.

Any who would be prepared to tell me what I need (equipment, controllers etc) and then what I need to do will be very much appreciated.

Cheers,

wombat457
 
if DC there are detectors and systems that you can use, try walthers, using DCC digitrax has a signal system, you will need a computer, their interfaces, the signal controller, and signals, get ready for some logic work.
Track has to be divided into blocks whether DC or DCC, signals and crossings.
 
The plan is to use DCC with the new layout, either an NCE or Digitrax system. What has been said makes sense, except the division of the tracks into blocks. That is really where I get lost.

Am I correct in saying that a block is nothing more than a particular section of track? For example, and theoretically, if I had 30 feet of track I could divide that into three blocks of ten feet with a signal at the start/end of each of those blocks? Or is a block more focused on particular tracks, main line, sidings etc? Or, are there no specific rules for blocks? Does this also apply to things such as rail crossing gates operating automatically or is it specific to signals?

Finally, I understand that those things that are required to make this work need to be compatible, ie the "operating systems" need to be all NCE or Digitrax or any other make of DCC; however, does which DCC system I choose also dictate what particular make of signals, crossings etc I can use with that system or doesn't it matter?

Sorry for all the questions, but as said, my first layout was a basic DC which was/is great, but am now ready to expand.

Cheers guys,

wombat457
 
Looks as though I may be going with a Digitrax System then. Time to start searching the web for the gear I am going to need to make all of this happen. Might also have to go out and buy a few ancillary items as well, Aspirin, Rum, Valium, Cigarettes etc and lots of it too :)

Thanks mate,

wombat457

PS: Just kidding about the Valium.
 
...try not to get too discouraged!...
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I am a very tenacious person, it takes a lot to discourage me - a heck of a lot. The problem I have is that I am not a huge reader, frankly it bores me to death and that could well be an issue with some things. I find, as you did, that most "instruction manuals" are not all that well written. Many seem to assume certain knowledge and/or experience OR the author forgets who he/she is writing the manual for. I prefer step by step, point by point direction - not page after page of what I see as confusion. As such, I ten to look briefly at the basics, then learn as I go and use "manuals" as a guide when I run into problems. Probably not the right way to go about things, but it saves me a lot of frustration :)

There are several people here that are willing to help you.
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I have discovered that already and am appreciative of it.

It is really neat once it works.
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I really like your CTC Panel. Although I know what it is, I have no idea of what CTC stands for, perhaps Controlled Track Circuit, or something. The layout I am putting together for my wife, a small 12' X (on average) 3' with a simple track layout will serve as my "learning curve" for doing the electrics and DCC. When I decided to do the signalling I thought having the "CTC Panel" would be a neat idea, despite the simplicity of the layout.

I will automating this layout as well, for signals and a crossing. SuzieX (a new member here) has been kind enough to do the JMRI Panel for me, so that is one thing I don't (as yet) have to worry about. I running the system using a dedicated laptop.

The wiring aspect of the layout is not worrying me too much, although have never attempted anything like what I am about to. The most I have done in the past, other the fundamentals, is to put in street and building lighting which is very basic. Working with circuit boards, decoders and whatever else is going to be involved is a new ball game to me.

All in all, and while I thought you hugely "brave" undertaking what you did as a first layout, the tougher the job the harder I work and the more determined I am to have success.

Thanks for the encouragement and the links, the links certainly opened my eyes to what I am confronted with, albeit on a much smaller scale.

Cheers,

wombat457

 
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This is how I plan on laying out the wiring. Does it look okay to you guys?

TootsLayoutWiringSchematic_zpsb925bd5d.png


Cheers,

wombat457
 
As you had just discovered my thread on the construction of my layout, I'm into the third power district of installing interlocking signals. I'm using the Digitrax system which includes: A DS100 Command station and two DB200 boosters, Three PM42 power management boards, three BDL168 block detection boards and three SE8C Signal control boards. In addition to those, I have about 78 signal heads installed so far with another 36 planned for the third power district.
I'm running the signal system with Traincontroller Silver which is made by Railroad Co. The software reads the BDL168 for the block detection then feeds the signal head information through the SE8C board. The turnouts are controlled by the SE8C as well. What I mean by the turnouts are controlled by the SE8C is that the commands to operate the turnout go to the SE8C which provides the power to the Tortoise machines. The SE8C also provides a momentary contact operation so a single push button can be placed by the turnout to manually control it or you can control the turnout from your DT4XX series throttle or through a laptop/computer that you will need to run the software. The software has a feature that you can draw your track plan on it then put the block detectors onto the track sections. As your trains work their way around the layout, you can watch the individual block sections on the computer screen change color to indicate the presence of a train.
If you go to my thread that in is my signature, scroll down to the video of Christmas eve run. In there you can get a glimpse of my laptop sitting on the benchwork. You can see how I have the blocks indicated on the screen and they change to black when a train is detected.
The detection takes place with the presence of the locomotive because it presents a load across the rails. If you run trains that will span two or more blocks, you might want to consider putting resistance wheels on some of your rolling stock to keep the block triggered, otherwise the signal heads will turn green for the occupied block when in fact there is still a train in it.
I use the BLMA signals exclusively. They run from about $30 for a single signal head of three lights to over $100 for a three track bridge signal system. You might want to investigate how signals are used so you will understand how to deploy your signals. The Traincontroller software allows you to set each signal for what you want it to do based on occupied track or turnout settings. I am setting mine up for green as default when no trians are present. Yellow for presence of a train in the next block beyond the immediate block. Flashing yellow for turnouts when they are in the thrown condition. Red for when turnout is thrown against you (approaching from the non point end and for when a train is present in the next block. My operating rules are, "absolute" which means, when a signal is red, your train must stop. No creeping along.
Getting your layout prepped for this system is painstaking, but the reward is great. I just finished up wiring my empire into 48 detection blocks for my system. The first 16 was painfully slow as I was learning the system as I worked through it. The second power district went easier and I was able to take some short cuts as I understood the system better. Now the first power district was the easiest but most extensive because it contains the sorting yard.
Turnouts can be done it two ways: as their own block sections or as extensions of the adjacent detection block. I did my third power district with the turnouts as their own power district which used one of the functions of the BDL168. I did the same with the second power district. I'm doing the extension of the detection block with the first power district now and will probably go back and do this with the other two districts because it will free up a detection block that I need for each
Cost: yeah, it gets expensive. The BDL168 and the SE8C boards are about $100 each. I bought a few 100' rolls of 10 wire ribbon cable which is needed to go from the SE8C to your signals. You can put 4 signal heads on each ribbon cable. I have 64 signal heads installed and another 32 to go. Power districts buss wire: I have well over 1600 feet of #14 stranded wire run so far on this layout.
The layout is about 6 1/2 scale miles of double track mainline. The intermodal facility has about 150' of double track in it. The coal facility is six tracks about 20' long and the sorting yard is 8 tracks about 30' between the narrowing for the turnout ladders.
I started my endeavor with the signal system last March and I'm just starting into the first power district with the signal heads. Several months of that was spent fiddling with JMRI software then another month getting up to speed on the Traincontroller Silver software.
Forum member fcwilt was instrumental in helping me get a handle on how the software worked. Once I had that basics down, I was on autopilot.
Hope this helps.
 
If you want to save money and do stuff for yourself, it's possible to make some pretty nice signals, but you can expect it to be delicate work. Here is the kind that we use at our club (2 different views of the same signal):
http://tmrc.mit.edu/progress/reports/2009/09/IMG_2911.JPG
http://tmrc.mit.edu/progress/reports/2009/09/IMG_2937.JPG

This involves etched brass parts from Free State Systems, signal heads and base cast in polyester by one of our club members (replacing the fabricated styrene components that we used to use) and two little circuit boards, plus a piece of brass tube. But yes, the installation job does begin with whacking a chisel with a hammer!
 
Adding to the excellent help already given:
Here is a link to my post made a few years ago that will help you build your own signals. The prices have changed, but so have ready builts: http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/...-Save-money-Build-your-own-Signals&highlight=
Signals that are already made are very expensive. Making your own will not only save you a bundle, but will also give you that special feeling of accomplishment. Yes, the parts are small and the soldering is tedious, but with practice anyone can build their own.:)
 
"blocking" requires cutting gaps in the rails to separate them for detection. I have done signals before and now and have working signals on my module yard ladder using digitrax and JMRI.
 
wombat457 said:

I really like your CTC Panel. Although I know what it is, I have no idea of what CTC stands for, perhaps Controlled Track Circuit, or something. The layout I am putting together for my wife, a small 12' X (on average) 3' with a simple track layout will serve as my "learning curve" for doing the electrics and DCC. When I decided to do the signalling I thought having the "CTC Panel" would be a neat idea, despite the simplicity of the layout.

CTC stands for Centralized Traffic Control.
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