Scorpius wireless digital train system

[injectorman]

Scorpius wireless digital train system. No DCC allowed!

Hi Guys.

DCC for me has buried itself in complexity and politics.

It has failed to take off in 30 years with very few train systems in the world digital. At a recent show yet again I see 90% of displays analogue!

I will go as far as saying DCC is driving more people AWAY from digital trains then it actually attracts.

So this is my solution, an existing slot car system which can be adapted to digital trains.

The advantages are multifold.

Heres the wireless architecture. 100% wireless comms. No data bus.

Note the 15 possible data communications routes.

Also data can be sent/received simultaneously by multiple components if required.

So there is no limitations on data with Scorpius ever. Speed is ultra fast with huge data transfer possible.




Controller. LCD screen, all firmware wirelessly upgradeable in seconds.

Track Interface (Turnout)

PC Interface (Dongle)

Loco Decoder

I will explain more as time passes.

See the slotcar forum here:

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showforum=129



Rick Field
Australian Slot Car Technologies

 

[CBCNSfan]

Hi Guys.

DCC for me has buried itself in complexity and politics.

Gee whiz, you must have been on the wrong forums, no politics allowed here

It has failed to take off in 30 years with very few train systems in the world digital. At a recent show yet again I see 90% of displays analogue!

When was the last time you were at a train show? Even up here in the boondocks all the club layouts and even most of the personal small layouts at shows (excepting the "Z" scale displays) were DCC and have been for years.

I will go as far as saying DCC is driving more people AWAY from digital trains then it actually attracts.

Really! that surprises me, I hope I haven't wasted my money as I just ordered an NCE SB3a smart booster to go with my power cab and I don't have a layout yet. It's really going to hurt my pride and pocket book if I have to throw them in the trash, because if you are right, they're sure to become obsolete shortly.

So this is my solution, an existing slot car system which can be adapted to digital trains.

The advantages are multifold.

I will explain more as time passes.

Rick Field
Australian Slot Car Technologies

Actually I'm some what interested, especially in the no data bus and wireless aspects of your system and am looking forward to the explanations.
Welcome Aboard
Cheers
Willis

 

[Motley]

Whao! Everything I see everyone is already on DCC, or is going to DCC. But I don't want to get into the DCC versus DC argument.

 

[injectorman]

Hi Guys,

Depends what part of the world you are in. Here in Oz very few train set ups are digital. And we are a country which adopts technology very quickly. I guess places like Germany are much different. Mis west USA different again.

Yes once the system has decoders installed in locos, track interfaces installed and software installed on PC you only need this:
1 x transformer. Everything else goes on Ebay.

On reading forums around the world I find a lot of guys love DCC but there is equally as many guys concerned it s simply beyond them. I could cut and paste 100 posts confirming this.

With this system you can discard half the hardware at least saving time and money. This is a very powerful yet SIMPLE to use system.

Im looking to hook up with similar minded DCC guys who think we are ready to go beyond DCC and enter the next chapter of model trains. Some minor adaptations for hardware would be required but essentially the system is ready now to adapt to digital trains.

Im also very interested in using a one of the new common standards proposed for data comms.

As a matter of interest I can easily overlay a DDC operating system on my entire system, (multi-protocol) but really I want to move forward from DCC completely.

Other features are: Every component can be reconfigured in 30 seconds. Every component can be completely reprogrammed (upgraded) in the same time, wirelessly with no cables.

No data cabling, interfaces and associated hardware are required.
Because hardware is less, installation and maintenance times are reduced substantially.
Less parts means less depreciation on your system, and makes it much easier if the track ever has to be relocated.



The only wiring is connecting the turnout motor to the interface, add frog livening wire. install LED in track surface at each turnout, and finally adding 12V to the interface to run it.

Decoder is similar to most. A photodiode is placed in the chassis aiming downwards towards track surface to pick up the turnouts unique ID number.

With this system you can run almost any combination of up to 24 drivers in one room, (more is possible) 80 locos in one room (more are possible) and up to 256 turnouts.

Rick

 

[LoudMusic]

I think you're wasting your time.
________
Codeine rehab dicussion

 

[injectorman]

Hi,
Id like to hear your views on why?

It has revolutionised slot cars and is THE new standard. Already 2 manufacturers have adopted this achitecture.

I realise also its hard to comprehend in 2 posts.

It will revolutionise yet SIMPLIFY trains in the same way as they are very similar in concept. In fact almost identical so I know it will work. The data transfer is superior (in fact can anyone here think of a better method?) and so too is power, simple, and cheap.

Its ok Im used to doubters, they said that when I started the slot car project 3 years back. It actually drives me harder

But there are people who want more than DCC has to offer, and this is for them

Im really after constructive criticism or ideas, not just people knocking it for no reason.

Its the biggest ever thread in DCC (and by a long shot) on the other forum, so it does interest a lot of people.

Rick

 

[diburning]

DCC is the de facto standard in HO. I don't know how long you've been in trains, but when MTH tried to impose a new standard on HO scale digital control, the market responded in a negative way.

DCC has been around for a while, and more than half of the people who do model railroading in HO and N scale use it. Failed to take off? It doesn't seem that way. DCC is prevalent in HO and N scales while larger scales use other systems.

Like it or not, DCC is the standard and unless theres 100% compatibility between the two systems, the market will not bear it. It has been proven time and time again.

It's not really politics. It's more of economics. The demand is there for DCC. There have been polls on this forum. Around 20% of all people still use DC. DCC is not any harder to wire up than DC. In fact, it's actually more difficult to do block wiring on DC than it is to wire up a layout for DCC.

 

[injectorman]

Hi,

Thats because thats all you have so you can only buy whats available.
Consumers are simple. They want the most bang for their buck. Maybe MTH got it horribly wrong? Obviously they did. Obviously not enough bang for buck/effort. Sorry thats not a reason.

Standard. There is no standard. Only the commands between black box and train are standardised. Thats not a standard. Can I use brand A cab on brand B's system, generally no. So decoders are standardised, what about data bus systems, and the rest? As I said thats not a standard, so Ill be going it alone. How can I make my product compatible to all DCC products on the market? It simply doesnt work. I guess a standard is all about COMPATIBILITY right?

If I could offer anyone any product that is more modern, more functionality, future upgradeable, simpler to use, install and maintain product and for the same or less money consumers will buy it. Its human nature to want more.

Standard? I was talking slot cars. 2.4GHz IS the new standard for slot cars.

Even if it doesnt become the new standard it wont stop it from going ahead, people buying and using it.

Well Playstation, Wii and X box all survive alongside each other correct? That is the worst case scenario for wireless.

The advantages of wireless cabs are obvious. So too will be wireless turnouts, wireless accesories and signals. Its just a logical extension. I dont think Digitrax invented their 2.4GHz cab for nothing do you? I bet they are looking at a whole new wireless system too but my guess is they are too far entrenced in DCC so they will stay put. Anyway the concept is mine, and you read it here first, (or the other forum)


2.4GHz systems will become the new standard, its only a matter of time.
Everything that can be converted to wireless is being done at a rapid rate.
Example Wii. Every kid loves it. I have a weather station here at home. 2.4GHz, sends data to my PC, brilliant, simple, quick and cheap $49. If I had to call out an electrician to run a data cable into the house or even did it myself it would have doubled or tripled the install cost. Please consider the physical aspect too.

In fact the old standard for digital slot cars was DCC (albeit slighty different) and its gone already as the new standard, within 5 years in fact!

DCC is old technology and like all technology its day will come to an end. Its simply limited. Remember the CD? Gone. Yes it WAS good, but something BETTER came along. It happens. BUT IT DIDNT HAPPEN UNTIL SOMEONE INVENTED MP4!

I wont be trying to convert any DCC user, its a waste of time. Im just appealing to people sitting on the fence or new comers to the hobby.

It doesnt mean people will dump DCC but new people in the hobby will think its a no brainer to go wireless.

I dont wish to upset DCC users, simply tell the train community a new dawn is approaching, an alternative. Please consider.

So Im inventing MP4 for trains, but you can still use your DCC. So there you have it

Rick

 

[diburning]

You're right. People want to be able to choose. That's why DCC is so great. You can choose your manufacturer, the set of features you want, and your scale! Unless theres 100% cross compatibility (meaning that it can do everything DCC can do and more AND is compatible with existing DCC technology) then people will not like it.

Standard? Yes, DCC has standards. The manufacturers in the industry have set up a standard so that theres i cross compatibility between decoders, functions, etc. The different cabs and boosters and command stations are what gives each brand their individuality. You're complaining that you can't use Brand A's throttle on Brand B's system. Will Scorpius have that type of compatibility with DCC? If not, then your product is proving your own argument.

DCC IS going 2.4GHz. Digitrax has "pioneered" the duplex radio system in DCC. (I say pioneered because 2.4GHz is nothing new, but it finally had an application in DCC) It runs at 2.4 GHz and theres no need to plug in the throttle after initial set-up, making for a completely wireless controller. The Digitrax system is compatible with everything else already out in DCC. Uses the same decoders, same base system, etc.

MTH's DCS has failed in HO due to their ignorant attitude towards compatibility. They tried to advertise what they thought was a "better" or "newer" or "way of the future" product. The HO community did not like it and did not buy it.

DCS did not become the new standard and it did not stop people from buying it, but it's not prevalent in HO and based on the people's attitude towards the lack of compatibility, it will never be.

CDs still exist. You can either buy a CD or you can download your music. Same price, different formats.

DCC may die in the future, but the market alone will decide that. "My product is better! Ditch DCC! DCC is old!" is not the right attitude moving forward. Instead of just saying that it is better, say WHY it is better. That's how people converted from DC to DCC in the first place. DCC has simpler wiring, more bells and whistles (literally!), and you can run two trains on the same track. Does Scorpius have some cool awesome new feature(s) that would expand upon what DCC has to offer? Going back to the compatibility thing. DCC is compatible with DC. If you install a DCC decoder, the engine will run on DC as well with all of the functions that you can get on DC. If I install a Scorpius decoder, will it run on DCC with full compatibility?

Remember when people transitioned from VHS to DVD? Almost all DVD players were sold with a VHS slot on the left, and a DVD tray on the right. The reason they did that was for compatibility people to become comfortable with DVDs. Also, the death of VHS was dictated by manufacturers in the video industry switching over to DVDs. Unless DCC ceases to exist overnight, there won't be any "revolution" in digital control.

I also noticed that your throttle has three knobs. Does your hobby (slotcars) have bells, whistles, and sound? Some model railroaders like having sound in their locomotives. They want the throttles with the 28 function keys to play all the sounds they want and to control special lighting effects such as ditch lights, strobes, mars lights, gyralights, etc. At the most basic, they want one button to turn on the headlight.

"I won't waste time on converting the old-timers, I'll just appeal the newbies to the hobby" is the same ignorance that caused MTH's DCS to be rejected by so many. With the age of the internet and all of the reviews and articles out there, even newbies can see what's going on. When they read about the MTH HO engines coming out with DCS on board and how there was so limited compatibility with DCC (the de facto standard), they saw it as MTH giving the HO scale community the middle finger. Don't get me wrong. The DCS system is great, very user friendly, has all of those function buttons that people want, etc, but since it has limited compatibility with DCC, very few people are buying it for HO. MTH has finally seen that. So, they are now releasing engines with a DCC plug on board for those who wish to run DCC. Also, this attitude alienates potential customers. Some people say model railroading is a dying hobby. Some agree, some disagree, but are you sure theres a large enough influx of "newbies" who will buy your system?

If Scorpius is indeed better than DCC, then the market will determine that.

I am intrigued though. If Scorpius is really that new and "better", I'd like to see what it can offer.

 

[Espeefan]

Maybe a basic comparison on your system versus DCC so we can see what you're talking about. Model railroads are not slot car sets, they operate quite differently. Some day DCC will fall by the wayside, it's inevitable, but it will be replaced by a system that does more and does it better, for the same cost or less, not by something that is simply different. Welcome to the model railroad market, the fussiest, persnickety, budget conscious market that there is. Good Luck. Let's see what you've got. I hope it's better than your initial assumptions about DCC

 

[fast_ian]

... Model railroads are not slot car sets, they operate quite differently.

I hear you, but at this "level" there are a lot more similarities (IMO).

I guess my thread about OpenLCB on a slotcar forum prompted this discussion, but I think it's worthwhile - We (anyone that wants to "control" their layouts, be they trains, cars, dolls houses or museum animations) want & need something that's easy to configure - Preferably without needing a computer. [Although complex installations will certainly include them]

DCC does a pretty good job of running trains, but configuring signalling, block detection, transponding etc is complex - Apparently, complex enough that it puts folk off......

The model proposed by OpenLCB (and potentially NMRANET ) should (IMHO) be able to work in all "environments" - The "Producer - Consumer" model really is very elegant - Some producer (eg, a Loconet message in trainworld, a "Lane Brain" message for Scorpius cars), sends it's command and the appropriate consumer(s) does it's/their thing..... Wifi, wired, CAN, it doesn't matter - it works!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[injectorman]

You're right. People want to be able to choose. That's why DCC is so great. You can choose your manufacturer, the set of features you want, and your scale! Unless theres 100% cross compatibility (meaning that it can do everything DCC can do and more AND is compatible with existing DCC technology) then people will not like it.

Firstly thankyou for your post. And yes these points must be raised so I can explain better.

Sorry, DCC is very good but its very limited in many respects, thats why Im making something far superior in every aspect using technology thats now here. But really simplicity is my aim.
If 2.4GHZ was around in the early days of DCC what do you think you would be using now?
It will be able to do MUCH more than DCC? Yes much more.

While we sleep technology marches forward.

I see a lot of people not happy with DCC. So people WILL like it (Ive done my research) and some wont like it. Thats life.

If you are happy with DCC this isnt for you (until your mate gets one)

Standard? Yes, DCC has standards. The manufacturers in the industry have set up a standard so that theres i cross compatibility between decoders, functions, etc. The different cabs and boosters and command stations are what gives each brand their individuality. You're complaining that you can't use Brand A's throttle on Brand B's system. Will Scorpius have that type of compatibility with DCC? If not, then your product is proving your own argument.

Standards cover a small % of the overall range of functions. So its a part standard. Lets be clear on this.

No my controller wont be compatible to DCC as I cannot achieve what I want to achieve by sticking to a 30 year old 'standard'
(ie simplicity and ease of functionality)

I cannot achieve the simplicity and ease of programming configurations with a DCC based system overlaid on my system.

And your reason for non compatibility is individuality. You cant have your cake and eat it too, its either compatible 100% or its not. Scorpius is obviously individual. So too are most other components of all other brands except the relationship between black box and loco.

DCC IS going 2.4GHz. Digitrax has "pioneered" the duplex radio system in DCC. (I say pioneered because 2.4GHz is nothing new, but it finally had an application in DCC) It runs at 2.4 GHz and theres no need to plug in the throttle after initial set-up, making for a completely wireless controller. The Digitrax system is compatible with everything else already out in DCC. Uses the same decoders, same base system, etc.

What, just the throttle is 2.4GHz, thats about 15% of the journey. Does it replace the antiquated bus system? Are the signals wireless? Can you reprogram the controller (and all components) wirelessly? Are the turnouts wireless? Are the locos wireless?
Scorpius is 100% wireless. Completely different animal.

MTH's DCS has failed in HO due to their ignorant attitude towards compatibility. They tried to advertise what they thought was a "better" or "newer" or "way of the future" product. The HO community did not like it and did not buy it.

Well a lesson to be learnt. If your going it alone it must blow the existing products off the shelf.

CDs still exist. You can either buy a CD or you can download your music. Same price, different formats.

Yes my thoughts too. When wireless makes in roads into the model train world DCC will still be around.

DCC may die in the future, but the market alone will decide that. "My product is better! Ditch DCC! DCC is old!" is not the right attitude moving forward. Instead of just saying that it is better, say WHY it is better. That's how people converted from DC to DCC in the first place. DCC has simpler wiring, more bells and whistles (literally!), and you can run two trains on the same track. Does Scorpius have some cool awesome new feature(s) that would expand upon what DCC has to offer? Going back to the compatibility thing. DCC is compatible with DC. If you install a DCC decoder, the engine will run on DC as well with all of the functions that you can get on DC. If I install a Scorpius decoder, will it run on DCC with full compatibility?

Mate please read my post carefully.
I said Im not try to make DCC guys dump their product? I never will. I have too much respect for people and like the fact they are getting happiness out of their existing system. Thats what its all about ultimately. Fun and respect for other peoples fun.

Its just another CHOICE. Consumers as you say love choice.
Ive have said WHY it is better. I realise this is important. Have a look and theres many reasons Ive already explained and more to come. Its not something I can explain in 3 posts.
Simpler wiring doesnt cut it, thats only one aspect. The rest you will agree is more complex in every department.

Remember when people transitioned from VHS to DVD? Almost all DVD players were sold with a VHS slot on the left, and a DVD tray on the right. The reason they did that was for compatibility people to become comfortable with DVDs. Also, the death of VHS was dictated by manufacturers in the video industry switching over to DVDs. Unless DCC ceases to exist overnight, there won't be any "revolution" in digital control.

Ok well I might put DCC on my chip to start with, hows that?

We both agree it wont happen overnight, but it will happen.

The revolution will be in your own games room if you do happen to buy a Scorpius type system. It might take 10 years or more. Im patient.

I also noticed that your throttle has three knobs. Does your hobby (slotcars) have bells, whistles, and sound? Some model railroaders like having sound in their locomotives. They want the throttles with the 28 function keys to play all the sounds they want and to control special lighting effects such as ditch lights, strobes, mars lights, gyralights, etc. At the most basic, they want one button to turn on the headlight.

All thought of.
Yes I have a 6 channel light board that is fully configureable wirelessly from your laptop or even your controller

My controller has a menu with as many pages as you want, click menu, scroll to function, adjust parameters, click exit, go.
It has buttons that YOU can assign to ANY function. Any other controllers do this?
You can also assign any trim pot to any function
Scorpius has a powerful microprocessor in the controller. Nothing on the market will have its functionality.

"I won't waste time on converting the old-timers, I'll just appeal the newbies to the hobby" is the same ignorance that caused MTH's DCS to be rejected by so many.

I have a lot of respect for 'old timers' as you say. They have brought the hobby to where it is today

Mate its actually because of the negativity I get from certain people that made me back off from pushing it to the wrong type of modeller. Been there done that

So youre saying Im arrogant? Im not sorry, Im just realistic.
60 year old men by nature are too set in DCC to be bothered upgrading, thats the reality. Anyone here disagree with that? Or anyone else for that matter who's investment is too great to upgrade. I fully understand and respect this.

And yes thats my market plan, to appeal to newcomers, fence sitters and 60 year old men who will come across to Scorpius on their own without being told. Thats just manners and respect

With the age of the internet and all of the reviews and articles out there, even newbies can see what's going on. When they read about the MTH HO engines coming out with DCS on board and how there was so limited compatibility with DCC (the de facto standard), they saw it as MTH giving the HO scale community the middle finger. Don't get me wrong. The DCS system is great, very user friendly, has all of those function buttons that people want, etc, but since it has limited compatibility with DCC, very few people are buying it for HO. MTH has finally seen that. So, they are now releasing engines with a DCC plug on board for those who wish to run DCC. Also, this attitude alienates potential customers. Some people say model railroading is a dying hobby. Some agree, some disagree, but are you sure theres a large enough influx of "newbies" who will buy your system?

Sorry, that doesnt concern me what MTH did. We both agree it didnt work.
Im not a greedy man, Im not after big $. If the system is good enough people will buy it. Simple. If not they will not buy it. Also simple. Ive seen what its done to the slotcar world and I want to share it with the model railway world. Its about passion as much as income.

If Scorpius is indeed better than DCC, then the market will determine that.

No debate here.

I am intrigued though. If Scorpius is really that new and "better", I'd like to see what it can offer.

Time will reveal all. Its not going to happen anytime soon as the development will take a year or two to adapt to model trains.

 

[injectorman]

I hear you, but at this "level" there are a lot more similarities (IMO).

I guess my thread about OpenLCB on a slotcar forum prompted this discussion, but I think it's worthwhile - We (anyone that wants to "control" their layouts, be they trains, cars, dolls houses or museum animations) want & need something that's easy to configure - Preferably without needing a computer. [Although complex installations will certainly include them]

DCC does a pretty good job of running trains, but configuring signalling, block detection, transponding etc is complex - Apparently, complex enough that it puts folk off......

The model proposed by OpenLCB (and potentially NMRANET ) should (IMHO) be able to work in all "environments" - The "Producer - Consumer" model really is very elegant - Some producer (eg, a Loconet message in trainworld, a "Lane Brain" message for Scorpius cars), sends it's command and the appropriate consumer(s) does it's/their thing..... Wifi, wired, CAN, it doesn't matter - it works!

Cheers,
Ian

Yup fully agreed.
Good to see someone with an open mind
Yes I would like to use the Open LCB or similar protocol, seems there IS a push for simplicity along my train of thought AND by people in the industry who know better than me. Maybe Im not so stupid?


Rick

 

[Espeefan]

Yup fully agreed.
Good to see someone with an open mind
Yes I would like to use the Open LCB or similar protocol, seems there IS a push for simplicity along my train of thought AND by people in the industry who know better than me. Maybe Im not so stupid?


Rick

I didn't see anyone call you stupid. Right now you're just short of information, like that side by side comparison I suggested. Your inital posts had lots of opinions about other peoples opinions of DCC, non shared by any DCC users I know. Most people resisting DCC are doing so because they are comfortable with their DC operated layouts, not because they don't like DCC. You have a long way to go in the information department, and I'm sure you'll find an audience here. Now as to whether you'll sell your idea...we'll see

 

[injectorman]

Sure, please shoot any question. Maybe draw up a comparision chart as its hard for me to imagine every query.
On various forums I have seen quite a few people confused by DCC and hence are holding off purchasing.

Ok lets continue......

How is the ID set on each loco?
Press menu.
Scroll to 'Set ID'
Scroll to required ID number.
Exit.
Ready to run

How is the ID set on each turnout controller?

This only needs to be once on installation.

Go to Turnout Setup program (shown below as Lane Brain Setup)

Select ID
Press reset button on turnout controller.
Press 'Download'
Turn turnout controller to off, then on.
Ready to go.

Note also I can change the polarity of liven flipper.
You can reconfigure anti-collision to on or off while your at it.
If you accidently wire solenoid (turnout) driver back to front simply tick box to rectify.
Note you can configure the amount of time power is sent to turnout drivers.
Another nice function is I can adjust the voltage to each turnout driver. eg 100% = 12V, 50% = 6V etc.

So note each turnout has its own unique ID.

Another nice function is a programmable desired route. Simply put the system into 'Learn Mode' run the loco around the track, using the track change button as you go to. Each turnout controller remembers the route of every single loco.

It also has auto speed calibration, (I think anyone else has this). Each loco is analysed at every turnout. If the loco is ahead of time the PWM is reduced (power) by a certain percentage. If its behind schedule it adds PWM to speed the loco up. Good if you have multiple locos sharing tracks as it keeps everything in sync.

Starting to take shape?

How is the ID set on each cab?

Press menu.
Scroll to ID page.
Scroll to desired ID number
Exit
Ready to go.



The controller has a function that slowly ramps up power (traction control) slowly which is configuable by menu or trim pot.

Also adjustable brakes so the loco can be slowed at any rate between 0-100. 100 settings.

Speed is controlled by trim pot with 0-100 adjustment (100 possible speeds)

Next topic: How is a Scorpius rail system powered?

Rick

 

[diburning]

Now I see that it is "different" but IMHO not necessarily better (then again, that's just my opinion, I may change my mind as I see more).

People can already do DCC through JMRI and a PC interface. I forgot to mention that JMRI is open source and allows people to modify it as they please, so if there are better features to be had, people may use JMRI as a starting point to create it.

 

[injectorman]

Theres lots more to tell.

Have a look at the JMRI website, very comprehensive, maybe too comprehensive. But one thing was obvious to me straight away, its way too complex for most newbies to comprehend and use. But I appreciate the amount of work and passion that went into it. Actually seeing the JMRI website made me even more sure to take a completely different approach.

The old saying if you try to be too many things to too many people you often miss out.

I want to make it much simpler to configure and operate a digital train system for a newbie to a hard core enthusiast. So easy that an instruction book is barely needed, self intuitive is the phrase Im after.

Config programs would ask you what you want to do and takes you through the process.
An example, you want to program your locos ID. The program prompts you as follows:
Click on "task"
Which component do you wish to reconfigure?
ick box "Loco"
Question: What do u want to do?
Tick box 'program loco ID'
Program says 'place loco on rails'
Press menu on controller.
Scroll to ID page.
Set ID using controller
Press 'send'
Exit menu.
Ready to go.

Now thats USER FRIENDLY and is a major feature of Scorpius.

By the way it can be used without a PC but obviously you can do lots more with a PC.

Rick

 

[grande man]

Hummmm...I don't see DCC going anywhere soon. It is now the mainstream standard and has revolutionized our hobby. I am sure there are other ways to do train control, but compatibility (NMRA standards) is key. Why would I buy another system when I am completely satisfied with DCC (Digitrax) and the new system wouldn't be compatible with all our existing equipment? Your idea may have been marketable 10 years ago, but I doubt it would be a commercial sucess today. Why not look for ways to improve DCC within the current standards? That would make more sense IMHO.

 

[fast_ian]

Good to see someone with an open mind

Whoa!.... While true, you did arrive here and immediately tell us that DCC sucks - You should have known that's was going to raise some hackles!

Yes I would like to use the Open LCB or similar protocol, seems there IS a push for simplicity along my train of thought AND by people in the industry who know better than me.

Very good! I suggest you sign up with the Yahoo Group if you haven't already. Some folk are doing some interesting development, and I think your stuff would fit right in.

And thankyou for keeping an open mind about OpenLCB - IIRC, you initially wrote that off 'cos it doesn't mandate a computer.

Why not look for ways to improve DCC within the current standards?

I'm afraid that ship sailed long ago..... However, OpenLCB could interface with it - Whether "it" is DCC, Loconet, Xpressnet or Scorpius

Cheers,
Ian

 

[injectorman]

Hummmm...I don't see DCC going anywhere soon. It is now the mainstream standard and has revolutionized our hobby. I am sure there are other ways to do train control, but compatibility (NMRA standards) is key. Why would I buy another system when I am completely satisfied with DCC (Digitrax) and the new system wouldn't be compatible with all our existing equipment? Your idea may have been marketable 10 years ago, but I doubt it would be a commercial sucess today. Why not look for ways to improve DCC within the current standards? That would make more sense IMHO.

Firstly I respect your purchase of a Digitrax system and that it brings you much joy. And as mentioned I wont be trying to convince people like yourself to convert. And of course DCC will not be going anywhere soon. But will it last forever? Of course not. So what do you think will be the next generation? The answer is 100% wireless. There is no better way. Its magic, so much data sent invisibly through the air at such a high rate, yup magic. And power to system, so easy a child could do it. Simplicity.

So we both know why YOU wont be purchasing a 100% wireless system, but thats you.
What about others?
EG. A newbie walks into a shop and looks at the options. He sees DCC and likes it. He then sees a 100% wireless system that has less components, quicker install time, superior data and power and at the same price. The guy says however its not compatible to DCC. He asks is DCC compatible to Scorpius. No, ok so Ill take the Scorpius system please. Its a no brainer.

The other side of the coin is you walk in. You have invested $1000's in DCC. You WILL be sticking to DCC. Does this mean everyone thinks like you? Or DCC is better. No.

See thats the exact thing I do not want to do, ie be just another guy fragmenting DCC even further and yet another brand that is only 15% compatible anyway. Now that would be a commercial FAILURE. I may as well go 100% incompatible and make a killer system.

So we have an admission that DCC needs improvement. I can prove a 100% wireless system is superior in every aspect. But to achieve this DCC cannot be in the recipie. I need to move forward not backwards. Sorry this WILL be a standalone system. However its fully programmable so an enthusiast who happens to write firmware/software for a living could easily superimpose DCC over my protocols.

If the the success is even 10% of that in the slot car world it will be a commercial success. I have no doubt on this.

By the way can you tell us all what you purchased, how far did you go?

Rick