Ran off UP yard by Federal employee.


"If you were, in fact, 100' off railroad property"

No, we were indeed on railroad property. There were tracks both in front and behind the position that we were parked on. There is a UP guard shack 2-300' from where we were watching, along with UP property (trucks, a crane, etc...) all around. However, due to the UP security guard telling us he was fine with it, I assumed that we were okay to watch. He told us that the only reason he even approached us was due to lumber theft that had been taking place lately.

"It's not clear from your post that this woman was claiming to be a peace officer, but she at least implied she had some authority."

No, she never said that she had any law enforcement authority. She told us that she worked for "a government agency that watches over the railroads," I assumed Federal, but her vehicle had NV EX plates, apparently she worked for the NV government. She did tell us to vacate the premises, which I did immediately. I was unsure of her authority, but did not want to take the chance of being arrested, either by her or the North Las Vegas police.

At any rate, I will watch from BLM or public land in the future. Just because security gives you the go ahead, does not mean that somebody else won't hassle you.

Jared
 
Jared, in this case, it could have been someone from the Nevada Public Service Commision, which regulates the intrastate activities of railroads. Or, it could have been someone working for the water department wanting to give you a hard time. Leaving as you did is always the best thing but, if this ever happens again, at least get the plate number and call the local police, which sounds like the NLVPD from your post. It will only take about 15 seconds for the dispatcher to run the plate and see what agency it comes back to. If the agency has no peace officer powers, they will get a visit from the Nevada DPS.
 
Not relevant to the situation at hand, but my general observations....


I've encountered some police officers wondering what i was doing....one just a few days ago. Usually, i am around grade crossings, parking lots next to the tracks, open fields, or stations(commuter rail or Amtrak). I've never been told to leave or that i couldn't do what i was doing, even by Amtrak police since the photo ban came out. I think that ban is aimed at larger stations like NYP, WAS, ETC.... I was in Oakland,CA, New London,CT and Mystic,CT since the ban, saw Amtrak PD, and they never told me to leave. I've also encountered B&M and NS police, again on public streets, and was never told to leave. The attitude you have at the beginning means a lot, and 99% of the officers out there are not looking to run you off...If you're nice and answer the questions, you will usually be left alone. If you come off arrogant and rude, that's when you will get the boot. If they overstep their bounds though, make sure something becomes of it.
 
Wow, never had any run ins like that around here.
I guess it really depends on the railway or their policies, or how bored the local police are. For instance, this is taken from the CNR website, check the second line under other job requirements.
(no I have not doctored this copy)

"CN is presently building a pool of candidates interested in a career as a Conductor. They are also generally responsible for tasks such as:

Building trains according to rules and client
Switching and inspection of cars
Working within company operating rules and safety procedures
Knowing their territories

Other job requirements include:

Good teamwork skills
Some public relations skill, for example waving to people by the tracks
Being physically fit for the job
Knowing signals or referring to the signals book for correct information
Good reading skills
Technology and computer skills that apply to the job
Ability to correctly analyze a situation and respond appropriately
Working shifts, sometimes away from home for up to 6 days
If eligible, conductors can be called at any given time for work.

CN is an employment equity employer, and we encourage all qualified candidates to apply."
 
This has nothing to do with either RR security or the feds just acting like jerks. The simple answer is, with the way the world is and things are in this country with terrorism and such. Railroads and the government know full well that railroads are a target for terrorists. They are now forced to start tightening the noose on trespassing on RR property these days because of that fact. Unfortunatly, that ruins it for railfans and train buffs alike. But its not the fault of RR personell or the feds.
 
"I live in Vegas as well, where were you at in Vegas that this happened?"

I'm not sure of its technical name, but it is near the 215 and Range Rd. Do you know of the location? They seem to unload quite a bit of lumber and automobiles in this yard.

Today the family and I took a ride to another small yard that I remember from a decade ago, called Arden. Back in the late 90's you could drive on a dirt road right next to the tracks through a canyon to Sloan. There were several turn of the century sidings (Bard) along the way as well. Well, you can no longer even get near this yard. No Trespassing signs are everywhere, and the line south out of town has a high chain link fence along both sides until it enters the canyon.

Jared
 
I know where that is I am not sure what the name for that spot is but it is one of the only spots in Vegas where you can see any sort of switching. If you want to see a hugh yard and lots of equipment the closest place would be Bartsow where BNSF has a big classification yard, as well as UP has a yard there as well. You can see action 24hours a day, I usually stop everytime we go to California, it is about a 2 hour drive from here. There is a bridge that goes over the southern end of the yard as well so you can get some nice pics.
 
To the OP, I know that was not the kind of a day you wanted to have trackside and I can really relate to the "don't wanna get hassled" attitude and just leave. Without knowing the exact situation it is hard to say if you were in any "danger" or anything that would of made "agency ex" come out and say something.

Also I see where everyone is coming from when they say they wouldn't move until this, that, and the third has happend.

But, look at it from both sides of the tracks. What if there had been a "situation" going on and they wanted everyone to leave. From the sounds of it there might be a few people out there that's not going to move until they get their confirmation and who knows that could be the difference between life or death for them.

On a side note if I had to guess, what you encountered was a special/security sensitive train that will usually have people ride out ahead of the route to look for suspicous things.
 
I used to watch trains in the Winslow, AZ yard when SF rulled the rails, and did it with their permission after I'd asked, I got to sit on an overpass for pedestrians going into the yard proper to work, and it was right over the main lines. I got to watch trains fueling at the racks. Everything was fine until BN bought them out, and now BNSF is an onery bunch and theres no dealing with them, so I just stay outside the boundry fence and sit on top of my pickup and enjoy the trains from there, it's only thirty feet from the main line. Bugs em, but I"m legal. My wonderful SF is not more.
 
ST214 said:
Not relevant to the situation at hand, but my general observations....


I've encountered some police officers wondering what i was doing....one just a few days ago. Usually, i am around grade crossings, parking lots next to the tracks, open fields, or stations(commuter rail or Amtrak). I've never been told to leave or that i couldn't do what i was doing, even by Amtrak police since the photo ban came out. I think that ban is aimed at larger stations like NYP, WAS, ETC.... I was in Oakland,CA, New London,CT and Mystic,CT since the ban, saw Amtrak PD, and they never told me to leave. I've also encountered B&M and NS police, again on public streets, and was never told to leave. The attitude you have at the beginning means a lot, and 99% of the officers out there are not looking to run you off...If you're nice and answer the questions, you will usually be left alone. If you come off arrogant and rude, that's when you will get the boot. If they overstep their bounds though, make sure something becomes of it.
Click to expand...

What is this photo ban you mentioned? I've not heard of anything like this.

Dave
 
diablo said:
I used to watch trains in the Winslow, AZ yard when SF rulled the rails, and did it with their permission after I'd asked, I got to sit on an overpass for pedestrians going into the yard proper to work, and it was right over the main lines.
Click to expand...

If this overpass is a public roadway. You dont need permission to stand on it from the RR. There is a yard not far from me that has a public roadway that crosses over a BNSF yard with a few main lines along each side that you can go to watch trains when its nice.
 
ChevelleSSguy said:
If this overpass is a public roadway. You dont need permission to stand on it from the RR. There is a yard not far from me that has a public roadway that crosses over a BNSF yard with a few main lines along each side that you can go to watch trains when its nice.
Click to expand...

Right, public property is just that, public.

A few years ago, my son and I were shooting photos in Little Rock from the viaduct over the UP yard. The viaduct has a sidewalk beside the very busy road. A young cop pulled up, turned on his lights (because he had to stop in traffic/obstruct a lane), got out of the car and approached us. It seems someone with the railroad had called us in. :rolleyes: The officer was less than impressed that he had been called out for nothing (and put in a dangerous situation in the traffic), understood that we were doing nothing illegal, and that we were on public property. He told us to be careful and enjoy our day before he left. He did his job. I treated him with courtesy, and the railroad employee looked like an idiot for not using common sense before picking up the phone. The moral of the story is, you may still be questioned even when you are clearly on public property. That is just a sad sign of the times. Be perpared for it.
 
It's a sad time we live in when muppets get these jobs, but then again who in the right mind would apply for the jobs in the first place except power mad eeejuts. It's the same in Britain mate and is a growing trend for mindless muppets to harrass anyone standing still with a camera. We have plastic police otherwise known as community support officers, they are unpaid volunteers who have normally exhausted all other avenues of work and turn to this as an ego power trip thing, even though they have no powers at all, apart from being able to radio a police patrol for help when photographers tell them to go get stuffed :D
 
Rico, sounds like the CN is at least trying to get conductors who realizse that little kids still like to get waved at. Good for them.

As far as Amtrak's policy, the official policy is “Security: While there is no prohibition against taking photographs of Amtrak trains, photographs may only be taken in Amtrak’s public areas, not areas restricted by signs, barriers or locked entrances. Non-public areas, such as railroad tracks, trestles, yards and equipment, are private property; trespassers are subject to arrest.” Thus, you can take pictures of any Amtrak trains you wish as long as you are in an Amtrak public area or on public property. Obviously, trepassing on railroad property will subject you to arrest, camera or not. An Amtrak police officer made a big error arresting a photographer about a year ago, who was taking pictures in an Amtrak station in New York for a contest, sponsored by Amtrak itself. This officer believed that taking pictures anywhere on Amtrak property was against the law. This blew up into a big deal and that officer has now found other employment. Amtrak issued the official policy on photography quoted above to clarify the matter.

Steve, "plastic police"...LOL. When I was first a reserve deputy sheriff, our badges had the word "Reserve" in a scroll above the words "Deputy Sheriff". I pulled over a drunk driver one night. He looked at my badge and said "You're just a lousy reserve, you can't do anything to me". I just smiled as I pulled out the cuffs...:D
 
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