brubakes
Member
I find this really interesting and will have to check into it myself. I work in I.T. so I have a surplus of old or older computers I could use as the base of a DCC setup. Might even make it a little easier for me to understand.
Progress So Far
- Thread starter CanuckMark
- Start date
I find this really interesting and will have to check into it myself. I work in I.T. so I have a surplus of old or older computers I could use as the base of a DCC setup. Might even make it a little easier for me to understand.
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
If you're capable of building your own DCC system from the ground up, my hat's off to ya - not many people can do that!
I work in IT too, but not much at the hardware level - more like database support. I went with a commercial product [Digitrax] because I do enough IT problem-solving at work, don't want to take my job home with me.
I work in IT too, but not much at the hardware level - more like database support. I went with a commercial product [Digitrax] because I do enough IT problem-solving at work, don't want to take my job home with me.
brubakes
Member
I barley having a grip on what DCC does let alone build up my own system, but it could be a great challenge. Whew, did I miss a lot while away from the hobby.
CanuckMark
Member
Man, I couldn't agree more with you on that.
If you were to add together the time (construction and trial/error) with the costs, you probably aren't too far ahead on this. But if you are into electronics it is definitely worth it. What it did for me as well was give me a really good understanding about the timing and data protocols - DCC is pretty innovative especially considering when NMRA actually put this stuff all together! My hats off to them for their forward thinking back in the nineties.
One thing I wouldn't recommend is building decoders. There are several designs and PIC codes on the web and I just haven't been able to get any of them to work well. Thing is, after around 20-22 bucks in parts plus time to build it hardly makes sense when a NCE 4 function decoder is around 25-27 bucks (or cheaper in the States).
Had a great night with turnouts last night! I needed a curved turnout with a sharper turn-off then the template I had, so I kinda matched together the outer rail template from a 60-33 with the inner rail template from a 36-24 - basically created a #4 turnout from a #6. It actually worked! Had to manually reconfigure the inner rails (frog, etc) but it wasn't actually too difficult - once you have the alignment of the exit rails on each side and the entry rails the rest kinda fits together. I'm glad this thread is in the "showin' off" section 'cause I'm proud of this one.
Mark
Great story
Nice story there. I also really like your layout. I may have missed it but what scale are you working in? I'm really frustrated by my 4X8 (oh no he dit-int) but I have little other options due to space constraints and not owning my own house to do as I please. Your layout seems to offer some great scenery and operations options with out taking up a ginormous amount of space. I'm really tired of seeing the front AND the back of my trains on curves at the same time LOL. BUT it gets me runnning trains.
Again nice work looking forward to seeing it more complete.
J.P.
Nice story there. I also really like your layout. I may have missed it but what scale are you working in? I'm really frustrated by my 4X8 (oh no he dit-int) but I have little other options due to space constraints and not owning my own house to do as I please. Your layout seems to offer some great scenery and operations options with out taking up a ginormous amount of space. I'm really tired of seeing the front AND the back of my trains on curves at the same time LOL. BUT it gets me runnning trains.
Again nice work looking forward to seeing it more complete.
J.P.
Mark, i'd like to see more of the dcc, as an electronics and electrical guru myself, i think i'd like to try this (i'm also an online electronics wholesale / broker, working on a retail website based on model rail road electronics, like reasonably priced tolggle switches and wire!) i got out of the electronics as a hobby in the early 90's when computer came into mainstream (programing a chip just wasnt as satisfying as designing and etching a pcb and soldering all the components to it. but i'm up for the challange. thanks ryan
CanuckMark
Member
jep: The layout actually takes up a fair bit of space (depending on your point of view I guess). We just built a new house with a "virgin" basement so I got squatter's rights to the back corner - it will be a 14.5' by 12.9' room. However it was designed so that there would be access on three sides. It is HO BTW. The dual main is a lot of fun with yard options while that happens, so I see this as a pretty long term setup.
oldtrail: Check out the TMWDCC to start with - that's where I started, and didn't stray too far from their designs. As I think I mentioned though I had trouble getting their booster to work properly, so I used a different H Bridge chip (a motor control IC) which uses the "direction" pin to invert the square wave. It works much smoother. My apologies - I've been run off my feet this past week at work so I haven't updated this much, as soon as I can I will do and I'll get you more info.
Mark
oldtrail: Check out the TMWDCC to start with - that's where I started, and didn't stray too far from their designs. As I think I mentioned though I had trouble getting their booster to work properly, so I used a different H Bridge chip (a motor control IC) which uses the "direction" pin to invert the square wave. It works much smoother. My apologies - I've been run off my feet this past week at work so I haven't updated this much, as soon as I can I will do and I'll get you more info.
Mark
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
I'm with Ken on this one. I'll bought the Zephyr and will do it again if it comes to building one for cheaper. If I was going to invest that much thought, I'd figure out how to control turnouts from my computer so I can run multiple trains and they don't crash into each other while I drink my beer and watch. I have the computer interface for my LocoNet and the JIMI software.
BTW--The layout will be a point-to-point with a reverse loop on each end and three passing sidings.
BTW--The layout will be a point-to-point with a reverse loop on each end and three passing sidings.
CanuckMark
Member
Here are a few update pics.
Started on the #4 turnouts that will make up the sidings. There will be another 4 up to the turntable. The two curved turnouts are in there too.
One suggestion regarding handmade turnouts - always do continuity tests to make sure there are no shorts between the rails. I actually use a DC loco on the power supply before sending DCC to it so I don't risk killing the DCC booster. One particular problem that came up: I use PC ties with copper on both sides, and on the ties where there were two nails holding them down the extra copper was causing a short on the back. That's why I put double trace cuts in.
Finally figured out how to create a BMP of the layout from XtrkCAD. There still is lot of design to go but it does show how it sits in the room.
Chip, I'm a bit confused by your reply but if it refers to the work involved in building the DCC rig, well, since electronics is a big hobby of mine (as well as my profession) it was natural to build it this way. It doesn't have any more or less control than a store bought controller, it is just different. Kinda like the difference between RTR and kits - some like to run 'em, some like to build 'em first.
Mark
Started on the #4 turnouts that will make up the sidings. There will be another 4 up to the turntable. The two curved turnouts are in there too.
One suggestion regarding handmade turnouts - always do continuity tests to make sure there are no shorts between the rails. I actually use a DC loco on the power supply before sending DCC to it so I don't risk killing the DCC booster. One particular problem that came up: I use PC ties with copper on both sides, and on the ties where there were two nails holding them down the extra copper was causing a short on the back. That's why I put double trace cuts in.
Finally figured out how to create a BMP of the layout from XtrkCAD.
There still is lot of design to go but it does show how it sits in the room.Chip, I'm a bit confused by your reply but if it refers to the work involved in building the DCC rig, well, since electronics is a big hobby of mine (as well as my profession) it was natural to build it this way. It doesn't have any more or less control than a store bought controller, it is just different. Kinda like the difference between RTR and kits - some like to run 'em, some like to build 'em first.
Mark
CanuckMark
Member
Update: March 2008
Well it's been a while since I've updated this thread, so I thought I'd give it a go.
A couple quick pics of trackwork. Right now "operational" is more important to me than scenery...it'll happen when I'm sure that this is the way it is going to stay (more of less).
Some of the custom turnouts. Some of these are a bit tight for the passenger cars, but they'll do it at slow speeds.
The roundhouse. Have to add power and some more lines. The turntable is scratchbuilt.
cont...
Well it's been a while since I've updated this thread, so I thought I'd give it a go.
A couple quick pics of trackwork. Right now "operational" is more important to me than scenery...it'll happen when I'm sure that this is the way it is going to stay (more of less).
Some of the custom turnouts. Some of these are a bit tight for the passenger cars, but they'll do it at slow speeds.
The roundhouse. Have to add power and some more lines. The turntable is scratchbuilt.
cont...
CanuckMark
Member
One of the larger elements of this project is the control and power. Right off the bat DCC made a lot of sense, but there was no point in converting occasional engines (especially single units). I'm an electronics geek and wanted to apply a lot of that to this layout, so a computer controlled custom designed DCC/DC system was in order.
The software is completely "scratch-written" - I talked at length with Lars Lundgren who did a lot of work with the TMWDCC project and got some pointers on using the serial port to decode DCC. His code didn't interface with mine very well (different programming language) but it definitely got me pointed in the right direction - I still had to start from scratch. New code was written to create DCC compatible data strings that could be transmitted via the serial port. It works well with little support circuitry needed (uses an H-Bridge controller as the DCC booster). The two mains use one booster and the yard uses a second one, with 3 amps available on each (lots for my stuff).
The DC portion is pretty simple as well - the system uses a I2C interface IC that can read voltages and temperature (an LM87), and it has the bonus of an internal DA converter meant to control the speed of a cooling fan. This is a perfect interface for a DC output.
Screenshot of main page. Lots to add still, including roundhouse power and whatever else is needed over time.
A direct OTM programming window.
A work-in-progress of the loco database that will be utilized.
cont...
The software is completely "scratch-written" - I talked at length with Lars Lundgren who did a lot of work with the TMWDCC project and got some pointers on using the serial port to decode DCC. His code didn't interface with mine very well (different programming language) but it definitely got me pointed in the right direction - I still had to start from scratch. New code was written to create DCC compatible data strings that could be transmitted via the serial port. It works well with little support circuitry needed (uses an H-Bridge controller as the DCC booster). The two mains use one booster and the yard uses a second one, with 3 amps available on each (lots for my stuff).
The DC portion is pretty simple as well - the system uses a I2C interface IC that can read voltages and temperature (an LM87), and it has the bonus of an internal DA converter meant to control the speed of a cooling fan. This is a perfect interface for a DC output.
Screenshot of main page. Lots to add still, including roundhouse power and whatever else is needed over time.
A direct OTM programming window.
A work-in-progress of the loco database that will be utilized.
cont...
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CanuckMark
Member
The hardware: the entire system (other than the external main power supply) all fits in the computer chassis. There is a main board which is hinged at the bottom, then output connectors at the back.
The wireless controller turned out pretty cool. I wanted wireless, plus I wanted direct control of at least 3 engines at once. The cheapest and easiest way to do it was to convert an existing comsumer product - a PS2 controller.
The doner controller - 10 bucks complete and brand new!!
The remote unit and the receiver.
cont...
CanuckMark
Member
This is the repackaged receiver (originally the small blue box fro the previous pic), installed in a new enclosure and attached to the underside of a shelf. It requires 5V and 9V - the power supply is in the metal box. It then connects to a parallel port and free-to-download driver software emulates it as a game controller, with access to 4 analog axis and 16 (yes 16) digital buttons! And the driver allows for multiple units, so up to 5 of these things could be built and control the layout at once (if the software supported it).
This is the completed controller. The original PS2 controller shown above was stripped down, leaving a single main board. The new controller is scratchbuilt using 5k pots and various buttons, with a printed faceplate. Three of the four axis were used for throttles, with the button inputs for the rest of it. It all fits into the handheld unit, powered by 2 AA batteries. Some minor circuits were added to keep the unit "alive" (there is a sleep mode on the PS2 unit that needs to be disabled). The whole thing works amazing and was a bargain compared to R & D-ing a custom wireless solution.
The control layout works slick because I can have the two mains running plus do switching, all controlled separately, all from one controller. Each throttle can be assigned to DCC loco(s) or DC. It was a good example of a "purpose built" solution.
A few notes... The external switch panel I had posted a while ago is gone now - there is essentially no external/mechanical switching anymore. It is all controlled via the remote or on screen. Eventually there will be turnout control as well. It cleans up the wiring so much too as everything is internal.
Anyway that's kinda it for the moment. Any questions or comments please feel free.
Mark
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OldGettysk
Running the MC & Buffalo
Wow that is some nice work both on the layout and in the electrical part !!!!
jim smith-wright
Member
Great stuff.
Even if I ever went back to a RTR gauge I would still hand build track, its just free's up everything so that you can lay track where you want it and not where the off the shelf stuff forces you. Are you building it in situe or away from the layout? I build mine in situe but then it is a bit complicated!
Regards
Jim
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6432
Even if I ever went back to a RTR gauge I would still hand build track, its just free's up everything so that you can lay track where you want it and not where the off the shelf stuff forces you. Are you building it in situe or away from the layout? I build mine in situe but then it is a bit complicated!
Regards
Jim
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6432
CanuckMark
Member
Great stuff.
Even if I ever went back to a RTR gauge I would still hand build track, its just free's up everything so that you can lay track where you want it and not where the off the shelf stuff forces you. Are you building it in situe or away from the layout? I build mine in situe but then it is a bit complicated!
Regards
Jim
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6432
Wow Jim, I'm speechless. That is some amazing trackwork - the detail in the ties and spikes, just beautiful. How do you find the time to do that kind of detail work??
My turnouts are nowhere near the quality of yours, but they do run far smoother than storebought ones (cheaper store bought ones anyway). And it's all part of the process too I guess.
Mark
jim smith-wright
Member
Hi Mark
Thanks for the kind comments. Its not as hard as it looks as I use off the shelf components by the P4 Track Company (see http://www.exactoscale.co.uk/4mmtrack.html ) I don't use their complete point kits as they only come with steel rail and I prefer to build each point as I go to keep the flow smooth. The ruling angle in my station throat is 1 in 9 which results in double slips that are about 14 inches long. This still has a 15 mph line speed though! We can get filing jigs to help with filing up the vee's and switch rails. What you see OMWB is far from finished. I have attached a picture of something that is - I hope you don't mind. (the point motor - switch machine - is scratchbuilt. More pics on my website in the layout section.
Keep at it though - you are doing great!!
Jim
Thanks for the kind comments. Its not as hard as it looks as I use off the shelf components by the P4 Track Company (see http://www.exactoscale.co.uk/4mmtrack.html ) I don't use their complete point kits as they only come with steel rail and I prefer to build each point as I go to keep the flow smooth. The ruling angle in my station throat is 1 in 9 which results in double slips that are about 14 inches long. This still has a 15 mph line speed though! We can get filing jigs to help with filing up the vee's and switch rails. What you see OMWB is far from finished. I have attached a picture of something that is - I hope you don't mind. (the point motor - switch machine - is scratchbuilt. More pics on my website in the layout section.
Keep at it though - you are doing great!!
Jim
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