Product Development

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jbaakko

jbaakko

Diesel Detail Freak
I've been working one some resin casting projects recently. I just discussed it with a guy who can make a CAD file & cut some masters, and it looks like its going to cost me approximately $3600 after CAD file, mold & resin.

Question here in lies, how should I go about funding this? Offer a pre-order and request, say, 50% pre-payment to help pay for the costs? Borrow money from someone? Save for a few more months (6+!) and then do one kit?

I've looked into business loans, but most seem to require the business to be established...
 


First up:
68' Finger Rack Car
68' Flat car

Later possibilities:
89' Flat (wood deck)
N scale AS-16/616
Modern pre-stressed concrete bridges & pillars

Also toying with the idea of buying a pre-existing line, for about $7k, but thats gonna be harder, don't want to set up pre-orders there, and have the deal fall through!
 
Well, pre-orders can be useful as they would help you determine the demand for your offering, but a lot of people are wary of pre-orders, especially from new manufacturers.

If I can make a suggestion though, instead of paying someone to do the CAD for you, invest in the software and design your products yourself, it'll pay off in the long run and you'll be able to control mistakes.

Also, don't forget where the economy is right now. I haven't cut my hobby budget, but a lot of others have.

Chris
 
Josh, I think Chris has the most salient point. This is not the time to be establishing a new business that is totally dependent on people buying things they don't absolutely have to buy. You can get a business loan with a good business plan even if your business isn't up and running. Unfortunately, banks are reluctant to lend on sure things right now let alone a speculative hobby business. I'd learn CAD and keep developing items but 2009 is going to a better year than 2008 to take the plunge.
 
I'm definitely edging towards buying AutoCad, it'll help a ton! I'd send the CAD file to a mold maker, then get a master made, and some molds.

The guy I talked with said $1k for the master making on its own. Eagle Mold Tech (about 2 miles from my house), quoted me $3k for a 10 kit mold, made from metal.
 
My 2 cents worth Josh. It would be nice to see some of the items you talked about being made. But is it the right time for it now with the economy as it is?? I know I've had to cut back on my "toys" over the last few months.
 
Josh, because of the accuracy you will need,you may want to let a pro AutoCad user do the work for you. If you are going to buy AutoCad (very expensive), you really need to enroll in an AutoCad class at one of your Community Colleges. It is a huge and sometimes difficult program. There is a watered down version from the same company (forget the name) that would be just as good for you, cheaper, and easier to learn. ;) :) Also, working knowledge of drafting/mechanical drawings is a must.
 


Well Rex, an AutoCad class would be, well, free, for me. ;) Thank god for the GI Bill.

As for market, economy crap, I'm not worried about that. I'm not going to put my whole life into the hands of this yet, so, if I spend $3500, and it take 2 years to earn it back, then, well it takes two years before I can say I broke even, that help with the taxes! Best part is I can use some of the parts from the Finger Rack, on the plan flat, the only part that needs to be different is the deck.
 
Well Rex, an AutoCad class would be, well, free, for me. Thank god for the GI Bill.
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That would be great; I used my bennys:D . Also, you may be able to purchase the software through the college's bookstore at a huge discount = a few hundred bucks;) . If you enroll in a class, I think you will find it fun as well as interesting. No drudgery!:)
 
Yeah, learning CAD can help me allot. Jim, the guy I'm currently in talks with, said he prefers not to use supplied CAD files, but Eagle Mold, does prefer that I supply them. We'll see, not in a huge rush right now for doing it this way...

At the moment, I'm scratch building the fist set of masters, and we'll see if the process of making the molds from the masters can work.
 
I would be wary of a company who won't let you supply your own CAD, especially if the company is not already involved in the model railroad industry. They'll definitely make mistakes, which is fine, but you'll have a harder time convincing them to fix them than you would if you could just revise the CAD yourself.

I'm no resin expert, but I do know it can be a finicky medium to work with, so you'll really need to watch the QC. There are some beautiful resin kits available now, like those offered by Railyard models, some so-so kits like those offered by Kaslo, and some horrendously awful one's, like these: http://islandmodelworks.com/sw1001.html (and no, that's not N scale).

Anyway, if you keep us updated on your development process, post CAD screenshots, and generally keep us informed about the manufacturing schedule, I'd probably be willing to place a pre-order as long as the price is reasonable.

Chris
 
there's all kinds of CAD programs out there the 2 most popular today are from:

Autodesk _ Auto CAD 3d format now (they also have have another system called Rivet)

Bentley's _ Microstation 3d format as well Triforma

there are some other programs that can do various things

like a program called Sketch Up_ cheaper

but the main thing is like anything else time to take and learn the programs ins and outs as well as really understanding 3 dimensional works like booleans etc.

If you have the time and cash to learn it will be more time than cash trust me. I use to do CAD designs back in the 80's and 90's but still stay in the game with the ever changing technological advances.
 
If you have the time and cash to learn it will be more time than cash trust me.
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I so much agree and that is why I recommended formal training. I tried to teach myself AutoCad with a borrowed copy from my college, but found there were so many ways to do one thing, it took for ever to move forward. I got smart and enrolled first in a drafting class followed by a semester of AutoCad. With an experienced user of AutoCad as the instructor, I was able to learn which methods were best to use for specific types of drawings and made good progress for what I wanted to do. This was back a few years and on the first version of AutoCad for Windows. It was a huge program and very expensive to buy outright. Because I was in education, I was able to purchase an educational copy minus books, from the UofAlabama bookstore for (If I remember) around $400, a huge savings.

I also recommend for Josh to look into other more simplified CAD programs. There are many that aren't so cumbersome or expensive that will do the work he wants. Make sure the program can save the file type that the company prefers. (Shouldn't be a problem with reputable software.):)
 
I'll get his site for you all to look at, but he's been doing model railroad resin casting for a while. He sticks to N scale more so, but has made some resin kits for other people too, so I'm not making a leap thats out of the manufacturers range. In fact, he's looking into buying Westerfield, since he's got the expertise there (I'd like to, but I cannot afford $100k!).
 
jbaakko said:
Yeah, learning CAD can help me allot. Jim, the guy I'm currently in talks with, said he prefers not to use supplied CAD files, but Eagle Mold, does prefer that I supply them. We'll see, not in a huge rush right now for doing it this way...

At the moment, I'm scratch building the fist set of masters, and we'll see if the process of making the molds from the masters can work.
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In my opinion this is a great way of starting out as the desingner could see the object and improve on details you either missed or found you could not pour effectively.

Remember pouring doesn't always flow in prototypical locations good. So you must make multiple molds then glue the finished components together. next bit of info I am thinking you must do is use a spin caster.

I know you know what I mean (-= Good luck.
 


Jim suggests to avoid the spin caster, unless I have a ton of space. He uses a hot casting style. Claims it works easier, and takes up less room then the huge spin caster.
 
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