Preferred DCC Systems

[Lester Perry]

I read on another forum about this trick for saving money. Get the Prodigy express then send it in with $50 for an upgrade. It will come back as a Prodigy Advance squared. I read this on another forum so I don't know for sure it will work. I do know that I have Prodigy advance and had it upgraded to Advance squared for $50 when I bought a wireless control. I am running trains. and don't see a need for anything that I can't get for MRC. It is simple to use and the instructions are on the back of the hand held. I have used other systems and still am very satisfied with my system. Oh yea one more thing. MRC tech support is amazing.

 

[Dollie's Dad]

I recently visited the shop that sold me the MRC system and asked what was the best way to upgrade to wireless system. According to him, there is an upgrade option, but it's not very good. For $329.95 (msrp) you get a wireless hand controller and dongle-like device that plugs into the command station. I guess it works okay, but it seems like a 'jury rig.' He said the best thing would have been to purchase the wireless system from the get-go if I thought there was any chance I might need it. I'm not sure how someone just getting back into the hobby is supposed to know that. The wireless upgrade does NOT duplicate the wireless system that they sell. Among other differences, the command station is different, no doubt because of the built-in radio circuitry.

The Digitrax upgrade path seems a little more elegant, and appears to duplicate the wireless system they sell separately. They also have more wireless options, i.e. radio, infrared, simplex, and duplex. Hand controllers are less expensive too, I believe.

Interesting side note: I see that MRC will be bringing out a 10-amp system for clubs and large-scale modelers.

 

[CSX Robert]

... According to him, there is an upgrade option, but it's not very good. For $329.95 (msrp) you get a wireless hand controller and dongle-like device that plugs into the command station. I guess it works okay, but it seems like a 'jury rig.' He said the best thing would have been to purchase the wireless system from the get-go if I thought there was any chance I might need it. I'm not sure how someone just getting back into the hobby is supposed to know that. The wireless upgrade does NOT duplicate the wireless system that they sell. Among other differences, the command station is different, no doubt because of the built-in radio circuitry...

My understanding is that functionally there is no difference between getting the wireless system and getting the non-wireless system and upgrading it. There are even some advantages to going the upgrade path: It gives you more flexibility in transceiver placement and the Advance plus a dongle leaves you two open cab ports on the base unit whereas the wireless system only has one. One thing I don't like about the wireless upgrade is you can not upgrade the throttles to wireless

 

[CSX Robert]

I read on another forum about this trick for saving money. Get the Prodigy express then send it in with $50 for an upgrade. It will come back as a Prodigy Advance squared. I read this on another forum so I don't know for sure it will work...

That's not quite right, the upgrade path for the Express is kind of confusing, but here is how I understand it:

Not including the wireless system, there are three second generation Prodigy systems: Express, Advance, Advanced Squared. There are two difference between the Express and the Advanced, the Cab and the amount of current they can supply, but there on no differences in the command station software. There is only one difference between the Advanced and the Advanced Squared, and that is the command station software. To truly upgrade an Express to an Advanced Squared requires you to upgrade the power supply and the software, and buy an Advanced cab. If you don't need the added current, you can just do the software and Advanced cab to get a "low power" Advanced squared.

The Advanced Squared is the only one that can be directly converted to wireless, both the Express and the Advanced need to have their command station software upgraded to the Advanced Squared software.

 

[Habbyguy]

I should have also asked, what does the majority of other modelers in the area use? No matter what system, if you go with what most modelers are using, you have a built in problem solving base that can be used for any help you made need.

But based on what you did say, it sounds like all you really need is a Digitrax Zephyr. Its around $150. (Haven't got one, but I do use the SC.) It can sometimes be had even cheaper.

Best thing is as your needs grow, so does the system. The Zephyr can be expanded to just about anything you ever will need. Extra walkaround throttles, wireless, signals, etc. Plus, like all Digitrax systems they are backward compatible with everything Digitrax has made up to this point.

The thing I don't like about the Zephyr is it does not come with a walkaround throttle(which I need). I might as well get the Super Empire Builder Xtra then.
But I heard that it lacks some things that the Zephyr and chief have.

 

[Lester Perry]

As for me I Like what I have and it can be easily upgraded to what ever they come out with. I also love the simplicity of it. Can you fit the operating instructions on the back of a digitrax hand held?

 

[fast_ian]

The thing I don't like about the Zephyr is it does not come with a walkaround throttle(which I need). I might as well get the Super Empire Builder Xtra then.
But I heard that it lacks some things that the Zephyr and chief have.

I believe the main thing it lacks is a CV Read capability - From the JMRI site, my emphasis added;

To connect your computer to a Digitrax DCC system, you need a LocoBuffer-USB, PR3, LocoBuffer-II, LocoBuffer, or MS100 to act as an adapter. See below for more information on these. The LocoBuffer-USB is highly recommended.

Note that except for the PR3, these are only LocoNet interfaces, not stand alone programmers like the Digitrax PR2 and PR3. None of these except the PR3 will let you read CVs if you have an Empire Builder! For that you need a Chief or Zephyr command station.

Now, this may or may not be an issue to you........

As for adding a walkround - A DT402 (possibly duplex) + UR92 + the Zephyr and you're home free.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[CSX Robert]

The thing I don't like about the Zephyr is it does not come with a walkaround throttle(which I need). I might as well get the Super Empire Builder Xtra then.
But I heard that it lacks some things that the Zephyr and chief have.

Prices will of course vary depending on the dealer, but as an example:
Zephyr Xtra + DT402 = $180 + $150 = $330
Super Empire Builder Xtra + power supply = $285 + $45 = $330

Both systems have advantages.

The Empire Builder has 5 amps and adjustable voltage.

The Zephyr has a separate program track output. With the Zephyr and a DT402, you would have two throttles. With the Zephyr, you could get started with just the Zephyr and add the DT402 later, so you don't have to spend as much money at once.

 

[lmackattack]

I also love the simplicity of it. Can you fit the operating instructions on the back of a digitrax hand held?

You cant fit the digitrax operating instructions on the side of a 50' box car

 

[Chemdawg]

You cant fit the digitrax operating instructions on the side of a 50' box car

AGREED!!!!

I do believe that the zephyr can read cv's if you use the soundtrack booster? Is this right?

 

[CSX Robert]

As for me I Like what I have and it can be easily upgraded to what ever they come out with. I also love the simplicity of it. Can you fit the operating instructions on the back of a digitrax hand held?

Actually, everything you are likely to need in day-to-day operation would easily fit on the back of the throttle.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Ian;

Using any of the devices you listed, when they are connected to a programming track you CAN read CV's. Its only when you are doing programming on the main, that you can't read back CV's.

I have had, or still have all of those mentioned, except the oldest Locobuffer, and they all read back CV's on the programming track only.

 

[fast_ian]

....when they are connected to a programming track you CAN read CV's.
.......
they all read back CV's on the programming track only.

Please correct me if wrong, but I didn't think the Super Empire Builder had a programming track output?

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Cjcrescent]

No it doesn't, but it also doesn't have any kind of readback capability. That's due to it using a DB150 which is really a booster and not a command station like the DCS100 or 200 or the Zephyr.

 

[fast_ian]

No it doesn't, but it also doesn't have any kind of readback capability.

OK, thanks - That's what I thought - Your statement above is a little misleading

So, it can't be used with Decoderpro? Unless you add a PR3?

Panelpro, Logix etc will work, but if a PR3 is needed, it's getting close to Super Chief prices......

Cheers,
Ian

 

[CSX Robert]

OK, thanks - That's what I thought - Your statement above is a little misleading

So, it can't be used with Decoderpro? Unless you add a PR3?

Panelpro, Logix etc will work, but if a PR3 is needed, it's getting close to Super Chief prices......

Cheers,
Ian

You do not have to use a PR3 to use DecoderPro with a DB150, but you do have to have a PC interface of some sort, as you do with the other Digitrax command stations. To clear things up a bit:

Any Digitrax command station can be used with JMRI(DecoderPro). You do have to have a PC interface to Loconet, but it can be any of them. You can even use the lowly MS100 or the DIY version of it; however, you do have to have a hardware serial port and they do not work with some operating systems(I do have the DIY version working with Windows XP). You do not have to have decoder read back to use DecoderPro.

The DCS50(Zephyr), DCS51(Zephyr Xtra), and DCS100(Chief, Super Chief, Super Chief Xtra, the only difference in these systems is the throttle) all have a separate program track output with the ability to read decoders. The DB150(Empire Builder, Super Empire Builder, Super Empire Builder Xtra) does not have a separate program track output and no decoder read back ability(unless you are using Transponding).

The PR3 interface is special in that it can operate as a PC interface to Loconet or as a standalone programmer. It will not give the DB150 read back capability, but it does have it when used as a stand alone programmer.

 

[flatlander]

I for one have sold many TCS decoders to customers and have only had one defect. This was due to the customer shorting it out by the locomotive when the internal pickups came apart and caused the short.

 

[cengel]

You do not have to use a PR3 to use DecoderPro with a DB150, but you do have to have a PC interface of some sort, as you do with the other Digitrax command stations. To clear things up a bit:

Sorry, still a bit confused. So you said that decoder read back is not required to use DecoderPro. I haven't personally used it but does this limit it's capability if you don't have it ?

So since I have a DB150 if I were to get the PR3 would that give me that ability to do readbacks with DecoderPro then ?

 

[fast_ian]

Sorry, still a bit confused.

+1......

So you said that decoder read back is not required to use DecoderPro.
.....
So since I have a DB150 if I were to get the PR3 would that give me that ability to do readbacks with DecoderPro then ?

I don't have a DB150, so could be wrong (! ) but I don't believe so. I *think* he means you can use Decoderpro to *write* (out to the prog track via the PR3), but you're still programming "blind" - "Write only" as it were.

This does mean (assuming all the writes "take" as expected) your decoder definitions are stored in, and can thence be nicely displayed by, Decoderpro. Which is good, but still not optimal IMHO.

The PR3 (or any number of other alternatives - the Locobuffer USB is well respected) can also be used to allow other parts of JMRI (Panelpro, Logix etc) to control and/or monitor the Loconet - Turnout position reporting, virtual throttles (possibly wi-fi phones etc) are all doable.

But, AFAIK, the DB150 even with a PR3 won't read back CV values [As a JMRI, and particularly Decoderpro, zealot this was a show stopper for me.]

Please correct me if wrong!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[CSX Robert]

...So you said that decoder read back is not required to use DecoderPro. I haven't personally used it but does this limit it's capability if you don't have it ?..

Only slightly. Without decoder read back, DecoderPro will not automatically identify the make and model of the decoder. Also, if a decoder has any changes made to it other than through DecoderPro(for example, while running the engine you decide you have too much or too little momentum and you change it through the throttle), then you can not read those changes back into DecoderPro(you could make note of them and enter them manually, however).

...
So since I have a DB150 if I were to get the PR3 would that give me that ability to do readbacks with DecoderPro then ?

Yes.

...
But, AFAIK, the DB150 even with a PR3 won't read back CV values [As a JMRI, and particularly Decoderpro, zealot this was a show stopper for me.]

Please correct me if wrong!

Cheers,
Ian

The DB150, even with a PR3 will not read back CV values, but the PR3 itself will. If you have a DB150 and you get a PR3, you are adding the ability to read back decoders, but you are not adding it to the DB150(the difference may seem trivial, but in some cases it is important). The PR3 can act as a Loconet interface OR as a standalone decoder programmer. When it is acting as a Loconet interface, any programming you do would have to be through the DB150 and you would NOT have CV read back. When the PR3 is acting as a standalone programmer, it does not use the DB150 at all, the programming goes through the PR3 and you DO have read back capability.

Some cases where the fact that you are not adding read back to the DB150 is important: If you want to check a decoder's CV value, you can not do it from a throttle, you have to use JMRI - if your computer is not running, you have to fire it up and launch JMRI. If you use the PR3 as a Loconet interface with JMRI while running the layout, then to use it as a programmer you have to change a setting in JMRI, change a setting on the PR3 and quit and restart JMRI. The PR3 does not need a power supply if used as a Loconet interface, but it does if used as a programmer.