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rfxcasey

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Hi,

There was a deal at my local hobby shop and I couldn't pass it up. I got the E-Z commander set with 2 engines, several stock cars and the E-Z commander controller for $107. Get it home and reading the documentation I saw it had an I/O port on the back used for hooking up a remote walkaround controller. The documentation also said that is was compatible with NMRA standard. Apparently I can use this with pretty much any DCC engine that also conforms to the standard. I would love to interface a PC with this port to control the trains with software.

Researching further I found several articles stating that E-Z command was really just Lenz in a different package. It also say it stated that this would work no problem with Lenz, ZTC and several other DCC systems.

I'd like to know if E-Z command is Lenz X-buss or XpressNet and if so what could I build or buy to make this work with software that supports Lenz or any other compatible hardware. I am a bit of an electrical engineer and would be willing to make this happen if I could get the right reference material, unless of course there is already something that exists.

The X-bus and I believe XpressNet are based upon the RS485 standard. Anyone experienced or knowledgeable with PC based DCC control please chime in.

Oh please save the "What you really want to buy is..." spiels because even if getting this to work is going to be a lot of work I would love to take up the challenge and use what I already have.

Thanks.:)
 
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I've heard of people tying DCC into computers, and I know there are commercially available systems. If you want to do this yourself, you'll need the right cable and the knowledge of how DCC works. My knowledge of this is pretty lean (it's hexadecimal encoded alternating current or something), but I suggest looking at the NMRA specs and at books such as http://www.amazon.com/Dcc-Guide-Select-Command-Control/dp/0890246769/ref=pd_sim_b_3 . If you've got the skills I see no reason why you couldn't get this to work. Good luck. :)
 
You can tie the EZ-Command into your computer through the use of a Digitrax PR3 decoder programmer. This not only gives you computer access but you can now program your decoders while having the ease of use of the EZ-Command. The story that the EZ-Command is the Lenz system in a different package is partly true. While the system is made by Lenz it's only a stripped down version od what Lenz was using. With Lenz you can program from the command station, with EZ-command you can only set the address and direction and the addresses are 2 digit only. I used an EZ-Command for 2 years and enjoyed it and I still have it for use as a fallback control system should my Digitrax Zephyr ever fail.
 
Thanks so much. So the Digitrax programmer will replace my EZ commander trottle/controller? It would be nice if I could also have a manual control that worked in tandem with the PC.
 
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rfxcasey said:
Thanks so much. So the Digitrax programmer will replace my EZ commander trottle/controller? It would be nice if I could also have a manual control that worked in tandem with the PC.
Click to expand...
Negative. The PR3 is just for programming decoders. Use the EZ-Command to run the trains.
 
Hum, not quite sure I understand where the discussion is going. My main intent was to be able to control the movements of the trains via software. Hopefully resulting dynamic response for things such as collision avoidance and scheduling. I was figuring since you could plug a walk around controller into the E-Z command controller, why couldn't you use the PC in place of a walkaround controller for an intelligent system. So then you add sensors and actuator around the layout all tied into the PC and based on the feedback you get from them, dynamically control the trains. Basically just controlling the trains with the PC and only using the E-Z commander as a power supply with the PC as it's brain.

Based on you first post it sounds like you can do this with the Digitrax Programmer.

jeffrey-wimberly said:
You can tie the EZ-Command into your computer through the use of a Digitrax PR3 decoder programmer. This not only gives you computer access but you can now program your decoders while having the ease of use of the EZ-Command. The story that the EZ-Command is the Lenz system in a different package is partly true. While the system is made by Lenz it's only a stripped down version od what Lenz was using. With Lenz you can program from the command station, with EZ-command you can only set the address and direction and the addresses are 2 digit only. I used an EZ-Command for 2 years and enjoyed it and I still have it for use as a fallback control system should my Digitrax Zephyr ever fail.
Click to expand...

But based on this

jeffrey-wimberly said:
Negative. The PR3 is just for programming decoders. Use the EZ-Command to run the trains.
Click to expand...

It sounds like the Digitrax programmer is just a more thorough programmer then the E-Z commander which I am guessing would allow you to program things like acceleration and deceleration curves where the the E-Z commander only allow me to set the train IDs.

When you said "You can tie the EZ-Command into your computer through the use of a Digitrax PR3 decoder programmer. This not only gives you computer access but you can now program your decoders while having the ease of use of the EZ-Command." can you elaborate on that a little? Is is physically possible to connect the PR3 to the E-Z Command controller and use the PR3's PC communication to dynamically control the E-Z commander trottle settings like you could with the walkaround controller which plugs into the E-Z commanders I/O port?
 
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ez commander is a command station with integrated booster -> can drive trains. PR3 is no booster nor it is command station, it is just an interface to PC -> can not drive trains by itself (granted some programming features are on board). basically PR3 going to communicate whatever you do in your software with EZ command. (wasn't aware it can. nice)

for what you want to accomplish you will need much more the that system however and thats a hobby all in itself they say. look into either JMRI (free) or
http://www.freiwald.com/pages/download.htm (commercial)
 
The EZ Command is a calculator without the division and multiplication functions. It'll add and subtract, but that's about it. :confused:

It allows the functions that Jeff has stated, but it doesn't allow the user to confugure the DCC locomotive's motion control CV's, individual volume CV's, speed table customization, and so on.

You need a more complete programming device...anything more than the EZ Command will be better than the EZ Command.

Many full capacity systems allow interface with a PC, and that allows you to programme your decoders with freeware such as JMRI Decoder Pro. The stand-alone PR3 does everything the EZ Command can't, although it won't allow you to actually run the engine on the rails...not as you get it.


Sorry, I have strong feelings about that product. :rolleyes:

-Crandell
 
rfxcasey said:
When you said "You can tie the EZ-Command into your computer through the use of a Digitrax PR3 decoder programmer. This not only gives you computer access but you can now program your decoders while having the ease of use of the EZ-Command." can you elaborate on that a little? Is is physically possible to connect the PR3 to the E-Z Command controller and use the PR3's PC communication to dynamically control the E-Z commander trottle settings like you could with the walkaround controller which plugs into the E-Z commanders I/O port?
Click to expand...
Poor choice of words on my part. That's what pain killers do to your thinking. What I meant was that you can use the computer to program your loco decoders through the PR3. The EZ-Command can only set the address, direction and lights on/off. The PR3 will allow you the decoder programming options that you would get with a Digitrax system like the Zephyr. It can set speed tables, lighting options, effects on/off, what sounds to be used (functions 1 through 8), set CV options, in short - everything the EZ-Command can't do. The PR3 however cannot run the trains nor can it be connected to the EZ-Command. If It could I would be upgrading my old EZ-Command system in a New York minute! All I keep it around for is to be able to run my DCC equipped locos in the event something were to happen to happen to my Digitrax Zephyr.
 
Thanks for the help. So a Digitrax Zephyr be more of what I am looking for? Let me rephrase that. What hardware can you recommend for controlling your layout via PC? What is the defacto standard for PC based realtime control for both hardware and software?
 
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OK to start with, your EZ commander is a really simplified DCC system that has really limited functions. It'll move one engine around at a time, but that's about it. If that is all you want to do for now, well it'll work for that. But if you want to fine tune your locomotives, run and program sound units, or run multiple locomotives and trains, you'll need something more.

I'd steer clear of the Digitrax Zephyr, as I consider it just a overpriced box controller ($200). You'll need to buy a seperate throttle and a loconet port for walkaround ability (add at least $120). If you go the digitrax route, you'd be much better to start off with the Empire Builder set ($355) that comes with the advanced walkaround throttle that will allow you to directly control two trains at a time. Either route you go you'll need to add a MRS interface ($45) to be able to run and program trains from your computer. These prices are retail, but you should be able to find them online at least a 25% discount. Digitrax also has a drawback of needing a program track booster to program sound units which will run you another $47.
http://www.litchfieldstation.com/DCC-University/PTB.htm

I'm sure sticker shock has set in by now. So lets discuss the route I took. I use a NCE (North Coast Engineering) PowerCab which is a walkaround throttle that contains the entire DCC system in the throttle. And it's a full DCC system and much easier to use than Digitrax for a novice. It has a $190 retail, but I bought mine for $140. You'll need to buy a USB interface to connect to your computer ($50 retail, but can be found for $40)
http://circlechobby.com/prodM/NCE25.HTM

MRC used to sell a very similar system called Prodigy Express, but I'm surprise to see that it has been discontinued. The MRC and NCE had the same retail. but the NCE was generally considered the better of the two. I've used both systems, and it's a close call, but I like the throttle wheel on the NCE throttle better. MRC's computer interface retails for $57.
http://www.micromark.com/PRODIGY-EX...eBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase

So that in a nutshell is what you are looking at for novice full feature DCC system.
 
Thank you so much. That is just the kind of info I was looking for. I'll drop a few bucks in the process but overall it sounds like it will turn out to be a hell of an investment.

One question does the NCE work with JRMI?
 
funnelfan said:
OK to start with, your EZ commander is a really simplified DCC system that has really limited functions. It'll move one engine around at a time, but that's about it. If that is all you want to do for now, well it'll work for that. But if you want to fine tune your locomotives, run and program sound units, or run multiple locomotives and trains, you'll need something more.

I'd steer clear of the Digitrax Zephyr, as I consider it just a overpriced box controller ($200). You'll need to buy a seperate throttle and a loconet port for walkaround ability (add at least $120). If you go the digitrax route, you'd be much better to start off with the Empire Builder set ($355) that comes with the advanced walkaround throttle that will allow you to directly control two trains at a time. Either route you go you'll need to add a MRS interface ($45) to be able to run and program trains from your computer. These prices are retail, but you should be able to find them online at least a 25% discount. Digitrax also has a drawback of needing a program track booster to program sound units which will run you another $47.
http://www.litchfieldstation.com/DCC-University/PTB.htm

I'm sure sticker shock has set in by now. So lets discuss the route I took. I use a NCE (North Coast Engineering) PowerCab which is a walkaround throttle that contains the entire DCC system in the throttle. And it's a full DCC system and much easier to use than Digitrax for a novice. It has a $190 retail, but I bought mine for $140. You'll need to buy a USB interface to connect to your computer ($50 retail, but can be found for $40)
http://circlechobby.com/prodM/NCE25.HTM

MRC used to sell a very similar system called Prodigy Express, but I'm surprise to see that it has been discontinued. The MRC and NCE had the same retail. but the NCE was generally considered the better of the two. I've used both systems, and it's a close call, but I like the throttle wheel on the NCE throttle better. MRC's computer interface retails for $57.
http://www.micromark.com/PRODIGY-EX...eBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase

So that in a nutshell is what you are looking at for novice full feature DCC system.
Click to expand...


I dont think NCE is easier to use, my club run on nce, and my own layout on digitrax. sometime nce is frustrating due to lack of some function button. the learning curve of the digitrax is a bit longer but once mastered, it runs like a charms, and you can still keep the quick reference book nearby
 
rfxcasey said:
Thank you so much. That is just the kind of info I was looking for. I'll drop a few bucks in the process but overall it sounds like it will turn out to be a hell of an investment.

One question does the NCE work with JRMI?
Click to expand...

Yes it certainly does.
 
julienjj said:
I dont think NCE is easier to use, my club run on nce, and my own layout on digitrax. sometime nce is frustrating due to lack of some function button. the learning curve of the digitrax is a bit longer but once mastered, it runs like a charms, and you can still keep the quick reference book nearby
Click to expand...

My club runs on NCE and I used to have Digitrax (sold it all). If you're using two systems all the time, I can see why you feel that way. You're always "in between" and will gravitate to the system you use the most. What function buttons are you missing on NCE? Their "dogbone" throttle has everything the DT-400/402 series throttles has (except the second pot...you have to use the recall button to call up your other train). NCE was much easier to operate than Digitrax until the 400 series throttles appeared, and it's still easier to program on if you're using the throttle and not JMRI. (at least IMHO..and many others I've spoken with:D)
 
I find my Digitrax Zephyr easy to use and had no problem understanding the manual. I've had a chance to use a NCE system and really didn't like it very much.
 
Im using the DT-402. One of the thing that bug me is that the nce throttle scroll wheel is harder to spin when its get older. this do not applie to the present case, but when there is a lot of loco and user on the layout, the throttle start lagging quite much, so much that we have to reboot all the boosters. It happens because nce use a polling system instead of direct impulse.

Consisting loco is easier on digitrax : select them on each knob, select wich direction will be the consist forward and press consist

Yes, programming is a notch harder, exept for the address, you have to remember (or on a small card, like me :D) wich cv numbers does what
 
well, if we to compare hardware from ergonomics stand point NCE is undoubtedly ahead. digitrax hand-held is just a square box with buttons. not pretty, nor comfortable, sporting ergonomic level of electronics made during 80's. while NCE is not best example of human interface device either it is far far ahead. if only because one handed operation of that scroll wheel (and additional buttons for those who are not comfortable). and BTW that wheel is speed sensing, for the same "distance traveled" the faster you scroll it the bigger change in speed is. one fast tug downwards and train at full speed stops completely.

EDIT:
on functionality level digi is on top with their cab bus and loconet. while powercab works fine for my limited layout (so far responding very well with 2 locos that i can run) , i would have went for digitrax if not for this stupidly ugly design. played with those hendhelds, just couldn't bring myself to love em...
 
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true, nce is economic, i saw the powercab running at $120us. i paid $250us for my super empire builder xtra. In fact i started with nce first( @ the club, i was still on dc at home) but the throttle where too tick for my hands. I would say its all a matter of "taste"
 
julienjj said:
Im using the DT-402. One of the thing that bug me is that the nce throttle scroll wheel is harder to spin when its get older. this do not applie to the present case, but when there is a lot of loco and user on the layout, the throttle start lagging quite much, so much that we have to reboot all the boosters. It happens because nce use a polling system instead of direct impulse.
Click to expand...

Actually you just have to re-boot the command station. NCE does not purge the unused addresses so if your members don't clear their locos, they stay in the stack, unlike Digitrax, which automatically purges unused addresses after a set period of time. We stopped having this issue after we started enforcing some discipline. Stiff thumbwheel? Not a big problem with us. we have about 50 users, and the largest NCE installation in the US.
 
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