I recently purchased athearn SD45 and GP35 both are DCC quick plug equipped. I have a 4x8 ho layout. What would be the best control station? I am looking to run 2 trains at the same time. I am also very confused with the decoders. Any suggestions on a easy to install decoder with motion and sound
New to DCC
- Thread starter burt
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Good advice, see what the majority of the local modelers are using. See if you can test run on the systems in use and choose what feels best to you.
Have to add my 2 cents
.
My club has used Digitrax since shortly after it came out, and the only problems we have had are usually related to new equipment being run on the layout, or someone didn't plug in a cable between the modules when we move it to a show. Our Digitrax system has been very reliable and is very easy to use. My personal advice and experience says use Digitrax, and not the others.
If the local club is constantly having problems, it sounds like something wasn't installed right, be it in the layout wiring, DCC equipment or what. If that is the case, it wouldn't matter what system is being used, as any installed system, be it NCE, Lenz, Digitrax etc. would constantly have those problems.
To say not to use a system without listing the problems someone was having with it, IMHO, does a disservice to the person asking the question.
Every one of those problems can be attributed to decoder programming errors, (like duplicate numbers), and/or a layout wiring problem. The fact it's not "consistant" with the same locos speaks more to a wiring problem, (like cold solder joints), and not the Digitrax equipment itself.
Everybody in our club uses Digitrax on their home layouts and no one has ever complained of the problems you've described without it being one of the catagories mentioned. Overall in our area alone, there are probably 10-15 Digitrax installations to every 1 installation of any other brand.
It's a regional thing. Digitrax is located in Gerogia. NCE in Illinois.
There is one other trend I've noticed: The folks who gravitate towards Digitrax seem to involve the computer in their railroading, where the NCE and MRC users mostly just want to run trains. Having used both Digitrax and NCE I can tell you that the NCE user interface is easier to pick up than Digitrax's. MRC's user interface is even simpler than NCE's (it is sometimes called "NCE light" though there is no relationship between the two companies). There are things I like about both systems (Digitrax and NCE). Up here in Wisconsin there seem to be more NCE users, though we have a Digitrax community too.
Either system will serve you well. Try both, or all three and see which suits you. Buy that one. Take any opinions with a grain (or sack) of salt
That is why I love the MRC Prodigy, they don't allow DC locos, so noproblems like that at all.
Remember that in a club situation you are likely to encouter more problems than in a home situation with any system. You tend to have people with a wide range of experience and abilities(often including people who think they know more than what they do), more variety in equipment and more variety in the quality of the decoder installs.
I have seen this happen on rare occasions, not even often enough for me to consider it a nuisance, much less a problem. It just takes turning the knob another click or two to the left on a DT series throttle or a little turn to the right and back to zero on a UT or Zephyr throttle to stop a loco that did not quite come to a complete stop.
Almost certainly caused by the loco being selected on more than one throttle.
I have never had this happen unless the loco was stopped on dirty track.
Bit 3 of CV 29 controls DC conversion on all NMRA compliant decoders that support DC operation.
If you are using "Brake on DC" then you need to have DC mode turned off, not on.
They are discussing the ability of most DCC decoders to run on DC, not the ability to run a DC loco on DCC, to separate and completely different subjects.
You are correct, my bad
. Our NCE system evolved out of the old Wangrow System One. Wangrow was based in IL. NCE made components for System One before making their own system. For some reason I have never been able to separate the two companies in my mind. The hand sets and other equipment are/were dead ringers for each other, except for the name on the enclosures. We still use some old Wangrow throttles when things get really crowded.
Correct. I may not have made myself clear. Any locomotive with a dual mode decoder with the DC mode turned on, running on a DCC layout, may do all kinds of weird things, like run away or refuse to stop. The controller has nothing to do with it. It's the decoder getting a bad packet from something like dirty track and having it interpert it as a DC signal, not DCC. That's when the locomotive starts acting wonky and doesn't respond to commands from DCC throttles, especially MRC, which can't control a DC engine in any case. As Robert so kindly reminded me, it's bit 3 of CV29 that should turn off DC compatability with 99% of decoders on the market today. It's certainly worth a try with each engine to see if it solves the problem.
Another bad for you Alan. Digitrax is now based out of Florida. (I think so Kelly can be near his boat!)
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Burt,
There are a ton of threads on this very subject. Just do a search and youll find lots of good info.
The answer to your question is not easy and very debatable.
I too am new to DCC and went with NCE's Powercab. I am very happy with it and find it easy to use. You can run 4-6 locos at a time but youll be hard pressed to do that on a single cab.
As far as decoders go, I would recommend with those RTR athearns to start with a non-sound decoder such as the NCE 13SRJ which is very easy to use. Just remove the jumper plug and plug in the decoder. Programming on the mainline track is a snap.
As far as adding sound to those types of locos, its not a simple thing. I would suggest a Soundtraxx tsunami that replaces the lightboard. That plus the speakers and enclosure will prob run you close to $90-100. You can also get a tsunami which plugs into the 9pin plug, but youll still need the speaker and enclosure. The hardest part is to make sure you have room in the locomotive for the speaker and enclosure.
Lastly, I would suggest buying a couple of dcc books at your local hobby store. I did, and between those books and this board, I have learned a great deal.
Good luck
There are a ton of threads on this very subject. Just do a search and youll find lots of good info.
The answer to your question is not easy and very debatable.
I too am new to DCC and went with NCE's Powercab. I am very happy with it and find it easy to use. You can run 4-6 locos at a time but youll be hard pressed to do that on a single cab.
As far as decoders go, I would recommend with those RTR athearns to start with a non-sound decoder such as the NCE 13SRJ which is very easy to use. Just remove the jumper plug and plug in the decoder. Programming on the mainline track is a snap.
As far as adding sound to those types of locos, its not a simple thing. I would suggest a Soundtraxx tsunami that replaces the lightboard. That plus the speakers and enclosure will prob run you close to $90-100. You can also get a tsunami which plugs into the 9pin plug, but youll still need the speaker and enclosure. The hardest part is to make sure you have room in the locomotive for the speaker and enclosure.
Lastly, I would suggest buying a couple of dcc books at your local hobby store. I did, and between those books and this board, I have learned a great deal.
Good luck
Will_annand
Member
My best advice would be to see what ours in your area are running, or what the local hobby shop has to offer.
Personally I went with the MRC Prodigy System and am very happy, two of my buddies are using the NCE system and love it.
The local club is using a Digitrax system, but constantly are having problems.
So my personal advice from experience here...
You will be happy with MRC or NCE and stay away from Digitrax.
Personally I went with the MRC Prodigy System and am very happy, two of my buddies are using the NCE system and love it.
The local club is using a Digitrax system, but constantly are having problems.
So my personal advice from experience here...
You will be happy with MRC or NCE and stay away from Digitrax.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Good advice, see what the majority of the local modelers are using. See if you can test run on the systems in use and choose what feels best to you.
Have to add my 2 cents
.My club has used Digitrax since shortly after it came out, and the only problems we have had are usually related to new equipment being run on the layout, or someone didn't plug in a cable between the modules when we move it to a show. Our Digitrax system has been very reliable and is very easy to use. My personal advice and experience says use Digitrax, and not the others.
If the local club is constantly having problems, it sounds like something wasn't installed right, be it in the layout wiring, DCC equipment or what. If that is the case, it wouldn't matter what system is being used, as any installed system, be it NCE, Lenz, Digitrax etc. would constantly have those problems.
To say not to use a system without listing the problems someone was having with it, IMHO, does a disservice to the person asking the question.
Will_annand
Member
OK, to list the problems...
During operating sessions, locomotives continuing to move, when the hand control is set to zero speed.
Locomotives stopping for no apparent reason.
Locomotives refusing to start once stopped.
Their is no pattern to it, we cannot say "this one locomotive never works right...
A loco will work correctly for one session, then act "possessed" on another session.
During operating sessions, locomotives continuing to move, when the hand control is set to zero speed.
Locomotives stopping for no apparent reason.
Locomotives refusing to start once stopped.
Their is no pattern to it, we cannot say "this one locomotive never works right...
A loco will work correctly for one session, then act "possessed" on another session.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Every one of those problems can be attributed to decoder programming errors, (like duplicate numbers), and/or a layout wiring problem. The fact it's not "consistant" with the same locos speaks more to a wiring problem, (like cold solder joints), and not the Digitrax equipment itself.
Everybody in our club uses Digitrax on their home layouts and no one has ever complained of the problems you've described without it being one of the catagories mentioned. Overall in our area alone, there are probably 10-15 Digitrax installations to every 1 installation of any other brand.
Last edited by a moderator:
Will_annand
Member
Carey, that is interesting, because up here, NCE seems to be "winning".
There are twice as many NCE as the others combined.
There are twice as many NCE as the others combined.
It's a regional thing. Digitrax is located in Gerogia. NCE in Illinois.
There is one other trend I've noticed: The folks who gravitate towards Digitrax seem to involve the computer in their railroading, where the NCE and MRC users mostly just want to run trains. Having used both Digitrax and NCE I can tell you that the NCE user interface is easier to pick up than Digitrax's. MRC's user interface is even simpler than NCE's (it is sometimes called "NCE light" though there is no relationship between the two companies). There are things I like about both systems (Digitrax and NCE). Up here in Wisconsin there seem to be more NCE users, though we have a Digitrax community too.
Either system will serve you well. Try both, or all three and see which suits you. Buy that one. Take any opinions with a grain (or sack) of salt
Motley
Active Member
I just got the Digitrax Super Chief 5 amp duplex yesterday, spent ALOT of cash, and found out last night that it was defective.
I called Digitrax support this morning and they concluded it was bad. So I took it back to the LHS (Caboose Hobbie) and they exchanged it for an NCE Powerhouse wireless for an extra $35.
I sure hope the new system works.
I called Digitrax support this morning and they concluded it was bad. So I took it back to the LHS (Caboose Hobbie) and they exchanged it for an NCE Powerhouse wireless for an extra $35.
I sure hope the new system works.
diburning
AlcoHaulic
I've grown fond of digitrax as it is the system that the club I belong to uses. I find that digitrax is compatible with almost anything. Sometimes a new manufacturer releases a locomotive with their own in-house designed decoder. Some systems may have problems programming them, or reading back CVs, or changing the address, etc. The Digitrax Super Chief down at the club can program most engines with no problems that systems from other manufacturers have. The throttles are a bit cheap and not very use friendly, but it's not hard to learn.
Will, one other thing to check is if the decoders have DC mode still enabled. If so, turn off DC mode using the appropriate CV. It varies with the type of decoder. An engine running on DCC with the DC mode still enabled can do all kinds of weird things, including most of the things you've listed.
Motley, sure sorry to hear you had problems with the Super Chief, but all electronics are subject to failure right out of the box. It's called infantile failure, and it happens to TV's computers, DVD players, as well as DCC control stations and decoders. Switching to another brand makes sense if you just like the features better, but I haven't heard of any brand of electronics that isn't subject to infantile failure.
Motley, sure sorry to hear you had problems with the Super Chief, but all electronics are subject to failure right out of the box. It's called infantile failure, and it happens to TV's computers, DVD players, as well as DCC control stations and decoders. Switching to another brand makes sense if you just like the features better, but I haven't heard of any brand of electronics that isn't subject to infantile failure.
diburning
AlcoHaulic
Yes, be sure to turn off DC mode on a DCC decoder unless you are wired for and have the decoders programmed momentum braking with DC. On the club's layout, if DC mode is not turned off, the engine may run off at full throttle, or suddenly change direction and run off, or do something really weird.
Will_annand
Member
That is why I love the MRC Prodigy, they don't allow DC locos, so noproblems like that at all.
CSX Robert
Member
Remember that in a club situation you are likely to encouter more problems than in a home situation with any system. You tend to have people with a wide range of experience and abilities(often including people who think they know more than what they do), more variety in equipment and more variety in the quality of the decoder installs.
I have seen this happen on rare occasions, not even often enough for me to consider it a nuisance, much less a problem. It just takes turning the knob another click or two to the left on a DT series throttle or a little turn to the right and back to zero on a UT or Zephyr throttle to stop a loco that did not quite come to a complete stop.
Almost certainly caused by the loco being selected on more than one throttle.
I have never had this happen unless the loco was stopped on dirty track.
Bit 3 of CV 29 controls DC conversion on all NMRA compliant decoders that support DC operation.
If you are using "Brake on DC" then you need to have DC mode turned off, not on.
They are discussing the ability of most DCC decoders to run on DC, not the ability to run a DC loco on DCC, to separate and completely different subjects.
You are correct, my bad
. Our NCE system evolved out of the old Wangrow System One. Wangrow was based in IL. NCE made components for System One before making their own system. For some reason I have never been able to separate the two companies in my mind. The hand sets and other equipment are/were dead ringers for each other, except for the name on the enclosures. We still use some old Wangrow throttles when things get really crowded.Correct. I may not have made myself clear. Any locomotive with a dual mode decoder with the DC mode turned on, running on a DCC layout, may do all kinds of weird things, like run away or refuse to stop. The controller has nothing to do with it. It's the decoder getting a bad packet from something like dirty track and having it interpert it as a DC signal, not DCC. That's when the locomotive starts acting wonky and doesn't respond to commands from DCC throttles, especially MRC, which can't control a DC engine in any case. As Robert so kindly reminded me, it's bit 3 of CV29 that should turn off DC compatability with 99% of decoders on the market today. It's certainly worth a try with each engine to see if it solves the problem.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
You are correct, my bad
Another bad for you Alan. Digitrax is now based out of Florida. (I think so Kelly can be near his boat!)
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