hey everybody, I am thinking of going n- scale now after doing ho. i have a digitrax zephyr dcc system. i love all the details in model railroading. Im thinking N scale because i could have a bigger layout. What are the advantages and disadvantages of n scale? Just wanted to know your thought before i just start changing everything.
New N scale
- Thread starter Scottew7
- Start date
ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.
Yes they do, however I wasn't to impressed with the sound on a couple locos I saw at the hobby shop. That's probably due to the small size of everything. I have two N scale locos and will be getting a third eventually, but don't think I'll bother with sound unless someone makes a better sound setup than the one I listened to.
Paul
Most of the Decoder companies make N scale decoders too. Train Control Systems (TCS) has one of the best decoders so i have heard, thats why i am selling TCS decoders in both HO and N scales alongside the Athearn, Atlas, Kato, Intermountain, and PROTO 1000/2000 lines i currently carry in my store. I havnt heard a bad thing about TCS decoders yet, all have been positive and good. They also have that awesome warranty, the "One-Year Goof-Proof No-Questions-Asked Decoder Warranty" which is a great thing to have if your new too DCC and installs. You can view the decoders and more information + the details about the awesome warranty information by visiting http://tcsdcc.com/ as well as on my site which is in my signature below.
I think the others have said it well, N scale you can definitely get more layout in the space you have. But you sometimes have to sacrifice certain things, one of them being detail. Dont get me wrong, the detail in N scale is amazing, but the detail that is available in today's HO equipment far out does the N scale stuff, which is what keeps me in HO. There is also more available in HO scale then N scale, especially for what i like to model (modern era, large industrial type industries).
Ive done N scale before, i did a few N scale Steel Mill Structures, had a few Atlas Locos, and a ton of Atlas coal cars, plus some Walthers and Atlas boxcars.... I liked it and planned to do a steel mill layout under my HO layout since the steel industry is so massive. I had built all the structures (which can be seen on this forum btw) but i had to sell my N scale small collection off because i could not support both HO and N scales anymore at the time. I hope to go back to N scale someday, and do a small HO sized layout in N scale, but this wont be until i can get my own place and have room for it.
I agree with Jeff, what exactly would you like to know John? I model N scale and have been for about 8 or so years now...if theres anything in particular youd like to know, feel free to ask...I'm sure everyone would be willing to help out, including myself ofcourse.
-Nate
Thanks so much and I am working on all of those questions that are needed to help me out with my layout. Being new new at this hobby, I am a little overwhelmed with all of the possibilities. I don't have any favorites as of yet and I am sure after reading all of these magazines and online info, I will soon learn that there is something out there that I really like or favor. Thanks and I will get back with you guys as soon as I have some answers.
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)
oplholik
Member
Yes they do, however I wasn't to impressed with the sound on a couple locos I saw at the hobby shop. That's probably due to the small size of everything. I have two N scale locos and will be getting a third eventually, but don't think I'll bother with sound unless someone makes a better sound setup than the one I listened to.
Paul
nateL
Engineer
I model in N scale, and well there are ALOT of disadvantages mainly just due to the size of the stuff. Things like railings on locos and even on some that come with MU cables can really easily brake. So as long as you handle anything you buy in N scale as you would handle a new born baby for instance (very very cautiously is what i mean haha)then youre pretty much all set, ive had a few experiences of my own however. But personally i love N scale becuase of the incredible detail for such a small thing, by the way "Atlas" makes some of the BEST N scale locomotives in my opinion, all of mine are made by them, alot of my freight cars are too. and yea if space is an issue, then N scale is pretty much ideal...good luck with your layout!
nephthyr
Member
One advantage of N scale is that a layout will usually take a quarter of the square area in n scale than the same layout in HO (roughly speaking of course) since you can almost half the length and half the width. Aisles width will still stay the same but if you consider a shelf layout of 2' x 8' in HO, this can easily be done in 1'x4' in N scale.
Having said that, I like the detail on HO too much and would therefore settle for a smaller switching layout in HO than a larger layout in N, but that's just my preference.
Having said that, I like the detail on HO too much and would therefore settle for a smaller switching layout in HO than a larger layout in N, but that's just my preference.
Trucklover
BNSF SD70MAC's
Most of the Decoder companies make N scale decoders too. Train Control Systems (TCS) has one of the best decoders so i have heard, thats why i am selling TCS decoders in both HO and N scales alongside the Athearn, Atlas, Kato, Intermountain, and PROTO 1000/2000 lines i currently carry in my store. I havnt heard a bad thing about TCS decoders yet, all have been positive and good. They also have that awesome warranty, the "One-Year Goof-Proof No-Questions-Asked Decoder Warranty" which is a great thing to have if your new too DCC and installs. You can view the decoders and more information + the details about the awesome warranty information by visiting http://tcsdcc.com/ as well as on my site which is in my signature below.
I think the others have said it well, N scale you can definitely get more layout in the space you have. But you sometimes have to sacrifice certain things, one of them being detail. Dont get me wrong, the detail in N scale is amazing, but the detail that is available in today's HO equipment far out does the N scale stuff, which is what keeps me in HO. There is also more available in HO scale then N scale, especially for what i like to model (modern era, large industrial type industries).
Ive done N scale before, i did a few N scale Steel Mill Structures, had a few Atlas Locos, and a ton of Atlas coal cars, plus some Walthers and Atlas boxcars.... I liked it and planned to do a steel mill layout under my HO layout since the steel industry is so massive. I had built all the structures (which can be seen on this forum btw) but i had to sell my N scale small collection off because i could not support both HO and N scales anymore at the time. I hope to go back to N scale someday, and do a small HO sized layout in N scale, but this wont be until i can get my own place and have room for it.
pcarrell
Just a guy
N scale is aproximately .6 the size of HO, so I don't think it's possible to get the same layout in a 1/4 of the space of HO, but slightly over half is no problem in most cases. Track spacing would have to be adjusted and "people room" are other factors, but for the most part, a bit more then half is a good place to start.
Some of the disadvantages have already been covered. Sound is still not the greatest, but it improves all the time. Also, parts can be small and delicate. An Optivisor is your friend! Other issues include the fact that trackwork has to be laid with more percision to get reliable operation due to finer tolerences (indeed, many things in N scale require this). Also, there is no one best track brand that stands head and shoulders above the others. All brands seem to be compromises, but that doesn't mean they're all bad either. Furthermore, depending on what you're modeling, certain companies loco's and rolling stock are better then others. For example, someone mentioned that Atlas loco's are very good, and they are some of the best around, if you model diesels. If you model steam, you're going to be disappointed. They only offer 2 models, an 1870's 2-6-0 and a two truck Shay. Both are great models, but thats not a lot of variation. Kato makes one of the best steamers out there (with the traction tire added), but they only offer 1 North American steamer, a Mikado. Bachmann Spectrum (the standard line is being redone and it's better, but the Spectrums are better) line is good stuff for the most part, and they offer a few loco types. With them, they offer the best warrenty out there. The problem is, you may need it as their quality control leaves a little to be desired sometimes. Another problem you'll notice is that HO scale enjoys wide support for virtually anything you could ever want as an off the shelf product. I know, not everything is covered, but most is. N scale isn't so much that way. If it's not available, and that happens more in N then HO, you'll be kitbashing or scratchbuilding it. (And they say this isn't a modelers scale!) It's true also that grades have more effect on smaller, lighter models, like N scale, but then, I see that as part of the layout design challenge. Lastly, if you're into tiny details, N scale will be a letdown as the detail threshold is lower. A doorknob with a keyhole in it disappears into a small bump in the part in N scale.
And that brings me to the benefits of N scale.
Because the detail threshold is lower, you can concentrate more on the overall scene. Rolling countryside for your trains to run through can actually look like an expansive rolling countryside. Mountains can actually dwarf the trains that pass through them. A city can be truely massive. And if an iron ore ship is 6 feet long in N scale (and I've seen some impressive models), remind me again of the size room needed to house the HO counterpart. Also, an 18"r curve in N scale is rather generous while still easily fitting the confines of the average bedroom. In HO scale that same curve is only for logging and industrial trackage. A 4-8-4 Northern or an SD70M doesn't stand a chance of making it around that, let alone looking decent doing it. Lastly, in N scale, if you want to go with a multi-level layout, the levels can be spaced a bit closer together without crowding the scene below.
I'm sure there's many more issues, but those are the main ones that jump out at me.
Some of the disadvantages have already been covered. Sound is still not the greatest, but it improves all the time. Also, parts can be small and delicate. An Optivisor is your friend! Other issues include the fact that trackwork has to be laid with more percision to get reliable operation due to finer tolerences (indeed, many things in N scale require this). Also, there is no one best track brand that stands head and shoulders above the others. All brands seem to be compromises, but that doesn't mean they're all bad either. Furthermore, depending on what you're modeling, certain companies loco's and rolling stock are better then others. For example, someone mentioned that Atlas loco's are very good, and they are some of the best around, if you model diesels. If you model steam, you're going to be disappointed. They only offer 2 models, an 1870's 2-6-0 and a two truck Shay. Both are great models, but thats not a lot of variation. Kato makes one of the best steamers out there (with the traction tire added), but they only offer 1 North American steamer, a Mikado. Bachmann Spectrum (the standard line is being redone and it's better, but the Spectrums are better) line is good stuff for the most part, and they offer a few loco types. With them, they offer the best warrenty out there. The problem is, you may need it as their quality control leaves a little to be desired sometimes. Another problem you'll notice is that HO scale enjoys wide support for virtually anything you could ever want as an off the shelf product. I know, not everything is covered, but most is. N scale isn't so much that way. If it's not available, and that happens more in N then HO, you'll be kitbashing or scratchbuilding it. (And they say this isn't a modelers scale!) It's true also that grades have more effect on smaller, lighter models, like N scale, but then, I see that as part of the layout design challenge. Lastly, if you're into tiny details, N scale will be a letdown as the detail threshold is lower. A doorknob with a keyhole in it disappears into a small bump in the part in N scale.
And that brings me to the benefits of N scale.
Because the detail threshold is lower, you can concentrate more on the overall scene. Rolling countryside for your trains to run through can actually look like an expansive rolling countryside. Mountains can actually dwarf the trains that pass through them. A city can be truely massive. And if an iron ore ship is 6 feet long in N scale (and I've seen some impressive models), remind me again of the size room needed to house the HO counterpart. Also, an 18"r curve in N scale is rather generous while still easily fitting the confines of the average bedroom. In HO scale that same curve is only for logging and industrial trackage. A 4-8-4 Northern or an SD70M doesn't stand a chance of making it around that, let alone looking decent doing it. Lastly, in N scale, if you want to go with a multi-level layout, the levels can be spaced a bit closer together without crowding the scene below.
I'm sure there's many more issues, but those are the main ones that jump out at me.
Last edited by a moderator:
jdetray
Well-Known Member
The ratio of N-scale to HO scale is 0.54375. So N-scale dimensions are a little bit more than one-half of the corresponding HO dimensions.
Area is different: You must square the ratio. So with regard to area, N-scale is:
0.54375 x 0.54375 = 0.2956640625 the area of HO scale; just under 30%.
So theoretically, you should be able to convert an HO layout to an N-scale layout that occupies about 30% of the area of the HO layout. But in practice, it may not work out that way. As Phillip points out, it's often the "people space" that will cause problems when attempting to convert an HO track plan to N-scale -- things like the width of aisles and not enough space between adjacent tracks to fit your fingers.
I found this to be true with my own track plan, which is an N-scale adaptation of John Allen's famous HO Gorre & Daphetid. Multiplying the HO dimensions by 50% resulted in an unworkable plan. Multiplying them by the correct conversion factor of 54.375% didn't work very well, either. My N-scale track plan ended up being substantially larger than I expected.
- Jeff
Area is different: You must square the ratio. So with regard to area, N-scale is:
0.54375 x 0.54375 = 0.2956640625 the area of HO scale; just under 30%.
So theoretically, you should be able to convert an HO layout to an N-scale layout that occupies about 30% of the area of the HO layout. But in practice, it may not work out that way. As Phillip points out, it's often the "people space" that will cause problems when attempting to convert an HO track plan to N-scale -- things like the width of aisles and not enough space between adjacent tracks to fit your fingers.
I found this to be true with my own track plan, which is an N-scale adaptation of John Allen's famous HO Gorre & Daphetid. Multiplying the HO dimensions by 50% resulted in an unworkable plan. Multiplying them by the correct conversion factor of 54.375% didn't work very well, either. My N-scale track plan ended up being substantially larger than I expected.
- Jeff
There is one drawback to N scale that hasn't been mentioned yet:
Over 90% of current passenger and freight cars have truck-mounted couplers. While I've gotten used to that, there are times when I really notice it, such as when trying to back a long train around a curve, or through a turnout.
Of course, I consider it a cost of being able to have a really nice, well-detailed layout that's 30 inches x10 feet. A comparable layout in HO would be almost 6 feet wide, and over 20 feet long, plus I would have to have it away from the wall for access on the back side, something I don't have to do with N (it stays up against the wall).
Over 90% of current passenger and freight cars have truck-mounted couplers. While I've gotten used to that, there are times when I really notice it, such as when trying to back a long train around a curve, or through a turnout.
Of course, I consider it a cost of being able to have a really nice, well-detailed layout that's 30 inches x10 feet. A comparable layout in HO would be almost 6 feet wide, and over 20 feet long, plus I would have to have it away from the wall for access on the back side, something I don't have to do with N (it stays up against the wall).
johnflitz3000
John F Litz
Hello all,
I am looking for info. on n gauge train layouts. Being new to this hobby I am looking to do as much research as possible. Any help would be great,thanks.
I am looking for info. on n gauge train layouts. Being new to this hobby I am looking to do as much research as possible. Any help would be great,thanks.
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Hi John, and welcome.
What sort of information are you looking for? Simply reading the postings in this and other model railroad discussion forums is a great way to start learning. Much of what you read may be difficult to understand at first, but as your knowledge grows, things will begin to fall into place.
If you are interested in learning how to design a layout, you might want to read Space Mouse's Beginner's Guide to Layout Design. It will get you thinking and planning before you rush into anything.
The web is loaded with information on N-scale model railroading. A Google search for "N-scale" (not "N gauge") will provide a lifetime of reading. If you can ask specific questions here on this forum, you'll get lots of helpful answers.
What, specifically, do you want to know?
- Jeff
What sort of information are you looking for? Simply reading the postings in this and other model railroad discussion forums is a great way to start learning. Much of what you read may be difficult to understand at first, but as your knowledge grows, things will begin to fall into place.
If you are interested in learning how to design a layout, you might want to read Space Mouse's Beginner's Guide to Layout Design. It will get you thinking and planning before you rush into anything.
The web is loaded with information on N-scale model railroading. A Google search for "N-scale" (not "N gauge") will provide a lifetime of reading. If you can ask specific questions here on this forum, you'll get lots of helpful answers.
What, specifically, do you want to know?
- Jeff
nateL
Engineer
I agree with Jeff, what exactly would you like to know John? I model N scale and have been for about 8 or so years now...if theres anything in particular youd like to know, feel free to ask...I'm sure everyone would be willing to help out, including myself ofcourse.
-Nate
johnflitz3000
John F Litz
Thanks for the welcome guys and I am brand new in this hobby. I am looking to build a N gauge wall mounted layout that will run all the way around my office. I have been doing a ton of reading on this and I think at this point I am a bit overwhelmed. Before I start spending any money I want to draw a scale layout of how the wall mount will run. Again being new at this there are many questions and the idea of one or two engines running brings up some concerns. I guess right now I am just looking for some ideas on some wall mounted layouts and how big the turns should be so I might have a clue as to how to draw the layout. Thanks guys once again and any help will be great.
pcarrell
Just a guy
Before any suggestions on loco's and such can really be made, we'd need a bit of info.
What kind of RRing are you interested in? Do you like steam? Diesel? What timeframe seems to speak to you most? Do you like the 1930's, where it's all steam and the superpower steamers were just hitting their stride? Or how about the 1950's and the transition era, where big steam and first generation diesels were roaming the rails? Or maybe it's all about the latest and greatest, the current era that gets you going? And where is this RR located? east, west, north, south, city, country, rural? Or maybe there's a specific railroad that seems to grab ya?
With that kind of info we can be more specific with our answers, ya know?
BTW, welcome to the forum.......and N scale!
What kind of RRing are you interested in? Do you like steam? Diesel? What timeframe seems to speak to you most? Do you like the 1930's, where it's all steam and the superpower steamers were just hitting their stride? Or how about the 1950's and the transition era, where big steam and first generation diesels were roaming the rails? Or maybe it's all about the latest and greatest, the current era that gets you going? And where is this RR located? east, west, north, south, city, country, rural? Or maybe there's a specific railroad that seems to grab ya?
With that kind of info we can be more specific with our answers, ya know?
BTW, welcome to the forum.......and N scale!
johnflitz3000
John F Litz
Thanks so much and I am working on all of those questions that are needed to help me out with my layout. Being new new at this hobby, I am a little overwhelmed with all of the possibilities. I don't have any favorites as of yet and I am sure after reading all of these magazines and online info, I will soon learn that there is something out there that I really like or favor. Thanks and I will get back with you guys as soon as I have some answers.
vato loco
Just a Foolish Saint!
John, Here's another peanut from the gallery that also helps. Look at all the layouts being built! there's tons of useful Ideas and photos you can gleam from them! Also look to see if any of us live in your area to give you a hand! If not go to Your LHS that specializes in MMR. There you should find some local tallent to help too!
jdetray
Well-Known Member
John -
Take a look at Spookshow's web site. Check the Layouts section to read his blow-by-blow accounts of what it's like to actually build a layout. There are lots of great pictures, too. It will give you a real sense of what building a layout is all about.
- Jeff
Take a look at Spookshow's web site. Check the Layouts section to read his blow-by-blow accounts of what it's like to actually build a layout. There are lots of great pictures, too. It will give you a real sense of what building a layout is all about.
- Jeff
johnflitz3000
John F Litz
Jeff that was a great link and I am amazed at how much I have to learn. thanks for the link.
vato loco
Just a Foolish Saint!
John here's the photo essay of my layout! http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/member.php?u=4575
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)