Mysterious electrical problems


Rico

Rico

BN Modeller
Okay here's something I've never seen or heard of before, I'm wondering if anyone here might have.

First the specs...
Op system is Digitrax.
Power supply is a PS515
Base unit is a DCS100
Throttle is a DT400
Aux equipment is two NCE switch 8's (MK2)
Layout wiring is 14 gauge stranded copper for main bus with 18 gauge feeders, soldered rail joiners between feeds.

When I'm running trains, any trains, everything will operate normally for a varied amount of time then the system will shut down. When it does the throttle slowly goes dim and the base unit clicks indefinitely until you shut it off. Restarting will either restore operation or get you more clicking, at which point you shut it off again. Occasionally restarting will get you nine beeps, indicating communication failure.

I've contacted digitrax and their response was to ensure the power supply is getting air.
Yes it is, in fact there is a fan circulating air right by it and it is cool to the touch.

What I've done so far...
Check power supply voltage, good although I know this is a discontinued product.
Replaced the base unit with my old DB150. No change.
Replaced the throttle with a friends DT402. Again no change.
Disconnected all panels and cables and operate from the base unit itself. Once again no change.
Disconnected the Switch 8's. Yet again no change.
Remove all locomotives and operate only locos known to be good runners. Nope.
Remove all rolling stock to eliminate the possibility of a shorted wheel/axle. Nope again.
Disconnected all terminal strips on bus and feeders and solder all joints together. No help.
Disconnected the only two electrofrog turnouts I have. Nada.
Checked all soldered rail joints and found no deficiencies.

I'm racking my brain to remember when this started and what I changed, added, or modified at the time.
My next step I believe is to isolate the layout into sections and test each one, however this is a random problem that doesn't happen every time or for any one train on any one piece of track.
Ugh.

Any ideas guys?
 
I should add the track is Atlas code 100 in staging and code 83 elsewhere.
Switches are Peco insulfrog in staging and Atlas custom line, Peco, and two Walthers curved elsewhere. (All #6).
I have two electro frogs but both are disconnected at this time.
 
I would look at the turnouts. When you have sliding contacts to power the turnout points, they can get bent outa shape and end up just close enough for an air gap. This is basically a short in the system. Very hard to find this problem except by isolating your turnouts.
 
Good plan Jerry, I'll try that. Might put a voltmeter in line too and keep an eye on it.
Ken I'll have a look at that,now that I think about it I did add a new crossover not long ago... it's on my list.
Ron, give up Gibby's? NEVAH!! I'll cut the wires and just push dummy locos around first!!
 
Rick, I think your power supply is slowly going away. It's probably showing good voltage with no load, but add anything, and the power will go away. Try to find a replacement power supply, and try it.
 
I think you are experiencing thermal failure, either in the power supply or in the base unit. Thermal because all electronics offer some level of resistance, and as most of us learn eventually in life, heat is the result of resistance, and heat is the enemy of electronics. Something is heating up sufficiently that it is affecting some components in the system.

I know next to nothing about electronics, but I can't think of anything that would rise in amplitude and then wane again over time as les and less throughput is taking place.
 
Thanx guys!
I'm thinking I'll still check all these things out but try a new power supply as well before I rip things up.
I'm going to put a voltmeter in line this time, there's a few cheap ones on feebay.
It's all trial and error for sure!
 
A morning observation.
I decided to hook my meter into the power supply this morning and keep an eye on the input voltage.
It starts out at a healthy sixteen volts.
IMG_1892.JPG

So I fired the puppy up and ran a couple trains around, nothing.
Then I loaded it up with four trains with a total of six locos for an hour, surprisingly nothing happened.
So right before I headed upstairs for breakie I went back to two trains then it happened.
The throttle slowly dims, trains stop, and I get that confounded clicking from the base station.
A quick peak at the meter shows the voltage pretty much at half!
IMG_1893.JPG

The power supply isn't warm or anything. Set the switch on the base to sleep, wait a few seconds, then back to run.
Voltage is back up to sixteen. Power up the throttle and again, click click click, back to eight volts.

So my question would have to be wouldn't the power supply remain constant even if the base was at fault?
I'm thinking Jerry, Terry and anyone thinking supply hit the nail on the head.
I'll try another power source later today and report back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey thought I'd update what's been going on with the electrical issues.
A buddy of mine came over with a fancy power supply he picked up from China off Feebay with volt and ammeters, and variable voltage, ampere, and other settings.
Once we dialled in the appropriate current things ran well until the units fan stopped and it over heated.
We got it going again with an eliberate secret electronic procedure (a bump with a fist) and everything was back up and running.

So I decided to open up the PS515 case, which by the way has been discontinued by digitrax, and see if I could do anything. Of course the four corner screws stripped so they got drilled out.
There's Really not much to it. I sat the unit on a cool steel plate with a fan blowing across it and so far everything seems to be running okay.
Of course this is a temporary fix and unless I build a more permanent air cooled and grounded case I'll be replacing it with a new and improved version.

Thanx to all for the help and suggestions!
 
Okay here's yet another report on the subject.
I'm using another power supply right now and the DB150 is performing flawlessly with an even 15 volts in.
The DCS100, however, is still shutting down. It's looking like it is a combination of two problems here.

I picked up some small LED meters and hooked them up to both rail A and rail B terminals and to the ground on the base.
In the photos the black und white wires to the left are for an accessory.
Here's the DB reading:
IMG_1910.JPG
And here's thevDCS reading:
IMG_1908.JPG

I've been in touch with Digitrax and they're looking into it.
Oh the joys....
 
Chasing multiple intermittent problems is enough to make you pull your hair out.
 
Rico:

My money is on a failing power supply and an older DSC that is also suspect. Age and heat play an factor to ruin most electrics. My Digitrax DT300 failed with very little use and will sent it back to Digitrax for repairs.

What is the output of the system to the tracks? My Digitrax output to the tracks is approximately 13.4 volts as measured by a RAMP meter.

I would try a different power supply and a different Digital Command/Booster unit or if you have a DC supply try running DC with a DC locomotive to determine if the track and wiring are not a problem which I don't suspect to be the issue.

I once had my Digitrax system shutting down and I spend countless hours looking for the problem. It turn out to be a piece of .032 solder laying between the tracks which shorted the system.

In defense of Digitrax, yes at first I didn't like my Digitrax system, too complicated with the programming, hexi-decimal BS and throttles that were either limited in programming or no programming. Once I purchased a Digitrax DB402 throttle all my problems ended.

Thanks.

Greg
 
Just an after thought...there's a Yahoo Digitrax discussion group where you may want to post your problem. These guys are experts with Digitrax and I'm sure others may have experienced similar problems.

Greg
 
Hi Rico
Have you measured the current drawn? If it goes up when the voltage goes down then it could be a partial short or an abnormal load and not the power supply.

On that note I had a problem with a turnout yesterday - it was shorting the power supply intermittently when in the turnout position but ok when straight. Turned out to be minute solder balls that had worked their way between the frog rails.

Ron
 
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