Mth union pacific 4-12-2 steam locomotive


2002p51

2002p51

Well-Known Member
I didn't want to hijack blackz28' thread so I'm asking this in a separate post.

His post was about an MTH UP 4-12-2 steam locomotive that he found on eBay. In the product description, MTH claims that this locomotive will operate on 18" radius curves. Is this really possible for something with a wheel arrangement like that?

Aesthetics aside, what steam locomotive wheel arrangements will reliably work on 18" radius?
 
Yes, it is possible. The reason is that MTH split the frame and pinned the front one, including the pilot, so that it would go around curves as if it were an articulated locomotive. Think of a Mallet, Big Boy, Allegheny, Challenger, or Yellowstone. Unfortunately, this decision of MTH's ruined the engine for me. It looks goofy, my opinion, as it rounds curves with its boiler aimed one way and the pilot and first three drivers aimed around the curve.

BLI is still showing their intention to run their version, which will not be articulated, in Jan 2013. Not holding my breath.
 
Selector said:
Yes, it is possible. It looks goofy, my opinion, as it rounds curves with its boiler aimed one way and the pilot and first three drivers aimed around the curve.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it does look pretty bad.

I have two 18" radius curves on my layout but at some point I want to get a reasonably large steam locomotive. I just have to decide how much "goofy" I'm willing to accept for those two curves. :D
 
A Prarie mallet perhaps..... :)
atsf__3320__3322__1.jpg

(Photo courtesy Dampflokomotiven - Gunters Eisenbahn Seiten)
I know that it has been made in brass.
 
It needs to be a N&W prototype, or at least close, and brass is financially out of the question. :)

And anyway this was really a sort of rhetorical question because I won't be in the market for one of these any time soon. I just would like to know if I'm wasting my time even thinking about semi-large steam with the layout I have.

I was wondering if anybody else is running this type of equipment on smallish curves.
 
If they ever get it out, the BLI one will be good on 24" curves. Those are 'smallish' to many of us, dream territory for others. You can run super steam on 18" curves, but if they are scale models with the proper driver diameters and spacing, you will have to check with the manufacturer about curves with radii less than 22". For example, the Bachmann Spectrum N&W J Class can run around 18" curves. So can their ten-coupled Decapod. Note, though, that in both cases, apart from their engineering as models to permit their use on tight curves, the real items had comparatively small drivers for their classes.
 
Selector was right. Bachmann Spectrum's, until the release of the B&O EM-1, all could run on 18" radius curves.

Depending on the make, some 2-8-2's, and 2-8-4's (N&W didn't have any of these did they?) Will take the 18" curves. The old Rivarossi articulated locos were designed to take the 18" radius curves.

Best bet would be to either increase the radii, or use smaller locos if you can't expand the curves at this point and just dream of the day when you can get larger locos.
 
Hi all,
I have one of the MTH U.P. 4-12-2s and as far as I am concerned it is a superb loco !
As for the articulation - yes the front 6 wheels swing along with the cylinders BUT the articulation can be locked with a half-moon link in the swing guide for those with larger radius curves on their layouts.
This is no worse than the also non-prototypical articulation of most H0 scale Mallets which also have articulated rear wheelsets where the originals were fixed.
What makes the MTH model special to me is the working Gresley conjugated gear and working inside crank which while not easily visible is a nice touch.
I have a BLI 4-12-2 on order so if it does eventually turn up it will make an interesting comparison.
Regards, Colin.
 
hunslet040 said:
Hi all,
...
This is no worse than the also non-prototypical articulation of most H0 scale Mallets which also have articulated rear wheelsets where the originals were fixed.
...
Regards, Colin.
Click to expand...

This is how Rivarossi did their articulated locos for years. How else were you gonna get that UP Big Boy, or Y6B, or one of those SP cab forwards around those 18" curves.;) Back in the day, I thought that was how all the manufacturers did it, until I saw a brass articulated from Tenshodo.
 
The fixed wheel base length for each engine will determine the minimum radius it can handle and look okay doing. 6-coupled steamers (2-6-2/4-6-2/4-6-4) will usually work on 18" radius and some small 8-coupled steamer (2-8-2/2-8-4) - but not the big Northerns like UP's 844 or SP's 4449. The big Northerns have 80" drivers and that makes for a long fixed wheel base.

Mallets like a 2-6-6-2 should work if they have small drivers (Bachmann's does). The larger the driver diameter, the bigger the radius must be. A Challenger 4-6-6-4 with 69" drivers needs a larger radius to look right and run reliably.

If the model builder puts some sort of artificial hinge in the "fixed wheel base" then it depends on what they say it's minimum radius is.
 
hunslet040 said:
As for the articulation - yes the front 6 wheels swing along with the cylinders BUT the articulation can be locked with a half-moon link in the swing guide for those with larger radius curves on their layouts.
This is no worse than the also non-prototypical articulation of most H0 scale Mallets which also have articulated rear wheelsets where the originals were fixed.QUOTE]

Actually, it is...because the 4-12-2 was not an articulated loco. ;) One of our club members has one. He did lock the frame, as our curves are broad enough for any locomotive model. This improved the model's look quite a bit They did a nice job on the sound, getting the off sync chuff of the three cylinder mechanism pretty much dead on. As long as you enjoy it, that's fine. The design itself was MTH's attempt to satisfy those of us who refuse to accept the limits of our minimum radii. As to the original poster's wanting a larger steam locomotive: On a layout with 18" minimum radius, I'd stay with a consolidation and certainly nothing larger a mike. The 2-8-0's could get pretty good size, and some 2-8-2's got downright huge. A good N&W model would be a 4-8-0, but they have only been done in brass, unfortunately :( Ask yourself this: How plausible would a 4-12-2 or a 2-8-8-4 look pulling 10 cars :confused: Design your train size to fit your layout size. Both the train and the layout will look more realistic overall.
Click to expand...
 
i :( Ask yourself this: How plausible would a 4-12-2 or a 2-8-8-4 look pulling 10 cars :confused: Design your train size to fit your layout size. Both the train and the layout will look more realistic overall.[/QUOTE]ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p
 
blackz28 said:
i :( Ask yourself this: How plausible would a 4-12-2 or a 2-8-8-4 look pulling 10 cars :confused: Design your train size to fit your layout size. Both the train and the layout will look more realistic overall.
Click to expand...
ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p[/QUOTE]


could always send the loco my way as Im planing on some huge curves in my layout LOL...but yea I have my riverossi and its a 2-8-4 / 3-3 (engine/tender) with articulation between the two...and it works on the 18" curves really nicely, tho I may do slightly larger just for the heck of it and the ability to handle the 2-8-8-4's or bigger...
 
blackz28 said:
i :( Ask yourself this: How plausible would a 4-12-2 or a 2-8-8-4 look pulling 10 cars :confused: Design your train size to fit your layout size. Both the train and the layout will look more realistic overall.
Click to expand...
ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p[/QUOTE]

Do what you like, not what other people say you should do. Otherwise you will start to loose interest and all will fall to the wayside. It is after all your little slice of heaven.;)
 
irocinblue89 said:
ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p
Click to expand...

Do what you like, not what other people say you should do. Otherwise you will start to loose interest and all will fall to the wayside. It is after all your little slice of heaven.;)[/QUOTE]

Amen and amen!!;);)
 
blackz28 said:
i :( Ask yourself this: How plausible would a 4-12-2 or a 2-8-8-4 look pulling 10 cars :confused: Design your train size to fit your layout size. Both the train and the layout will look more realistic overall.
Click to expand...
ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p[/QUOTE]

You don't have to do that. ;) I wasn't suggesting you should buy (or not buy) anything. Now, as to what looks plausible on 18" radius curves, that's another discussion. Sooner or later I predict most modelers, as they progress and learn, will become dissatisfied with that huge overhang you're going to have. I'd double head two 2-8-0's on a small layout before putting such a huge fish in such a small pond. There is also something else you can do: Find a club in your area with a layout big enough to handle the beasts. I have a small layout at home where I run small stuff. The club gets the cab forwards, northerns, and the 19 car passenger trains. It's the best of both worlds! Small trains look better on ssmaller layouts. Of course I'm a finicky sort cursed with a sense of proportion and a taste for realistic appearances. If you don't care, go have fun. It's your railroad. :D
 
Selector said:
Yes, it is possible. The reason is that MTH split the frame and pinned the front one, including the pilot, so that it would go around curves as if it were an articulated locomotive. Think of a Mallet, Big Boy, Allegheny, Challenger, or Yellowstone. Unfortunately, this decision of MTH's ruined the engine for me. It looks goofy, my opinion, as it rounds curves with its boiler aimed one way and the pilot and first three drivers aimed around the curve.

BLI is still showing their intention to run their version, which will not be articulated, in Jan 2013. Not holding my breath.
Click to expand...

I agree any articulation in a non articulated train just seems a bit goofy, granted IF I happen to pick one up or am given one I will use it but not likely, it would most likely just become a display piece...as for big trains I do have a 4-8-8-2 on its way so I will be interested in watching it scoot around my track and see if it will have any issues LOL!! Its a Yellowstone...


Espeefan said:
ok ok i get the point i'll return mine (as i hang my head ):(:p
Click to expand...

You don't have to do that. ;) I wasn't suggesting you should buy (or not buy) anything. Now, as to what looks plausible on 18" radius curves, that's another discussion. Sooner or later I predict most modelers, as they progress and learn, will become dissatisfied with that huge overhang you're going to have. I'd double head two 2-8-0's on a small layout before putting such a huge fish in such a small pond. There is also something else you can do: Find a club in your area with a layout big enough to handle the beasts. I have a small layout at home where I run small stuff. The club gets the cab forwards, northerns, and the 19 car passenger trains. It's the best of both worlds! Small trains look better on ssmaller layouts. Of course I'm a finicky sort cursed with a sense of proportion and a taste for realistic appearances. If you don't care, go have fun. It's your railroad. :D[/QUOTE]

Response to BOLD: gee sounds a lot like me!! GASP! oh wait I got a 4-8-8-2 on the way...oops guess he will be heading to the club lol!!! as well as the 4-8-2 its goin with me too :) now I just need to start switching all the couplers out for the newer types :( fun......not...



To other person: get what ever the heck you want...its you road...hell Im making my own imaginary company one train at a time, all I got is a small freight consist and a passenger consist and two steamers :( sadly the alco shark or what ever the <firetruck> it is midnight special is dead or dieing so its now my test rig for mods...and the Tyco Amtrak type cars are going to be repainted to suit my train company set up, all tho I haven't decided officially on a paint scheme yet...but im experimenting...now why am i doing all this mess....cus its my railroad...do I want to run steamers when I got diesels a plunty to pick from...SURE I WILL...why? its fun and I like to...heck they are going to be the two back bones (work horses) of the company for passenger runs I think...may one day upgrade to the Amtrak high speed rail system once the company sees that type of volume...but for now two steamers for passenger and freight ops is enough for me :)
 
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